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Posted: 4/17/2008 6:12:26 AM EDT
It seems to me that any potential problem with carbines, be they military or
commercial, real or imagined, could be solved by simply going to a middie
arrangment.  It also seems that such a "solution" would be far superior to
the armed forces, as they would  only need to replace the barrel, gas tube,
and handies if they wanted to go this route....way fewer parts for inventory.
So what say ye, carbine fans, and middie lovers?   I have both, enjoy both,
and have no axe to grind either way.  Just seems to me that pistons are more
like a solution looking for a problem.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 7:24:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2008 7:24:30 AM EDT by Hoplophile]

Originally Posted By jaygee:
It seems to me that any potential problem with carbines, be they military or
commercial, real or imagined, could be solved by simply going to a middie
arrangment.  It also seems that such a "solution" would be far superior to
the armed forces, as they would  only need to replace the barrel, gas tube,
and handies if they wanted to go this route....way fewer parts for inventory.
So what say ye, carbine fans, and middie lovers?   I have both, enjoy both,
and have no axe to grind either way.  Just seems to me that pistons are more
like a solution looking for a problem.

The problems to be solved are:
1. Lack of reliability when things get really dirty
2. Lack of reliability when using very short barrels, especially when they get really dirty.
3. Use of sound supressors which increase back pressure so that more crap gets blown into the action, making the weapon get really dirty even faster than normal.

How does the middie do anything to solve any of these issues?  Especially #2 since the middie gas system is too long for short barrels.

I'm not saying that the military should switch all weapons over to piston systems.  But for certain units, the ones who use suppressors and or very short barrels like the Mk18, a piston system makes a lot of sense.

For a general issue weapon, there's nothing wrong with the M4 as it exists today.

For a general purpose civilian rifle where NFA issues apply, I agree with you on the mid length.  A 16" barrel with mid length gas system is IMO the best general purpose configuration available.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 3:18:22 PM EDT
Would agree on the points you bring up.  For a general service carbine type
weapon, though, I'd think a middie really has a lot going for it. For one, a
16" barrel has to be a bit better in the velocity dept. than a 14.5", and with
the longer gas system, the R.O.F. would be somewhat lower.  There may be
a wee bit less debris left in the BCG after comparable usage...altho I can't
prove it.  For iron sight users, you get some increase in potential accuacy,
as has been pointed out in the other thread.  And of course there's that
bayonet thing!  It all kinda makes me wonder why COLT came up with the
carbine system the way they did, now that we can all look back with 20/20
hindsight !   I'd agree too that for the way things are in general, the M4
ain't bad, and could be worse.   If we were to start over afresh, I'd say make
mine Middie !
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 3:48:32 PM EDT
I've never seen any problems with the current set up. I've never had any malfunctions.

Has anyone in here had any malfunctions, either in the Military or LEO or private consumer (that wasn't a "build it yourself" problem)?
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 3:54:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jaygee:
And of course there's that bayonet thing!  

An extra 2" reach with a bayonet doesn't carry much weight in the selection criteria.
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