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Posted: 11/17/2012 3:50:42 AM EST
I'm starting a new build and decided upon a KISS rifle. I went with a 14.7 inch, CHF, 1/7 Mid-length gas, A2 profiled barrel. All I've ever had is carbine and rifle gas system guns that shoot everything I've fed them. I don't/won't shoot cheap steel cased ammo, just a personal choice. I figured its time for a middy since members here seem to love them. I've read some accounts of the middy gassed rifle's not liking all ammo, especially the stuff that's light on power. For instance, I shoot a lot of PMC Bronze in .223. Tell me your experiences with the middy and the problems you've had, if any using underpowered ammo. Thanks!
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 3:55:00 AM EST
I personally don't own a middy, but my buddy has a BCM midlength. He's got right around 2000 rounds thru it with no stoppages, and all we shoot is PMC bronze.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 3:57:29 AM EST
6 middys, 0 problems.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 4:25:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By jmreagan:
I'm starting a new build and decided upon a KISS rifle. I went with a 14.7 inch, CHF, 1/7 Mid-length gas,
The 14" middys "can" have problems, I think most of them have the correct gas ports now.

If it has a problem its a easy fix.

That does not mean they aren't reliable. My 14.5 LW middy is now my go to rifle whenever I go to the range
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 4:33:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2012 4:49:23 AM EST by ricochet7]
I also have several middies, they've never given me any problems.
About 99% of the problems I am aware of with middies, have been when users are using Tula 223 ammo.
You said you don't plan to use steel cased ammo, you'll be ok.
Mine love steel and brass cased ammo equally, (but I don't shoot Tula ammo in my middies).
Many instructors have made the switch to middies, they don't do this to create problems.

Edit ––> I do shoot Tula steel 5.45 ammo in one middie, over 8k rds with no reliability problems.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 5:08:32 AM EST
Middy's have become my favorite set up. I run a full auto BCG and a "H" buffer. I feed them Federal M193 , which is a fairly warm round. Have not seen any problems.
If feeding cooler ammo presents any problems, just switch to a standard carbine buffer and you should be good to go.
The reason why I like my set up is the guns have little to no kick, even with the hotter ammo.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 5:30:12 AM EST

I like the middy cause my OKC3C U.S.M.C. bayonet fits on it like an O gazim. Stik n move btch.
F obama

OK on the serious side. I also read all that stuff before I went middy but have had no issues.
Also I think the PMC stuff is GTG. Use it alot and like it . Also like the brass.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 5:38:45 AM EST
Currently running a FA BCM bcg in my 14.5" middy with the vltor a5 stock. I run almost exclusively Tula and have never had a problem. I love my middy and am currently building another.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 5:40:10 AM EST
My ST-15 Middy runs like a top; not a single malfunction.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 5:41:34 AM EST
Thank you Gentlemen! I appreciate the feedback and it's nice to know reliability with any ammo is not a problem. To the member that said, and I'm paraphrasing here, "that manufacturers got the port size correct and have for a while", that's comforting to know. The 14.7 inch CHF barrel I bought is a PSA; (FN) barrel. All I shoot is Federal XM193 and XM855, Federal bulk pack .223, PMC Bronze .223, and PMC X-Tac for what it's worth...
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 6:05:09 AM EST
I run both American Eagle 55gr XM193, Federal 62gr M855 without any issues, even ran PPU 55gr through it and no issues as well.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 6:36:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2012 7:00:22 AM EST by MatthewD]
I have a number of Armalite middies, no reliability problems. Armalite probably has the most experience with midlength gas systems
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 8:20:15 AM EST
My RRA middies shoot great w/ every brass cased ammo I haved tried including a case so far of PMC bronze.They also shoot wolf fine for about 3-4 mags and then the chamber gets gunked up and they don't extract well but that's nothing to do w/ being midlength..
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 9:27:59 AM EST
1,500 rounds of wolf steel case and counting through
my DelTon middi with not one stoppage other than
one bad C products mag problem.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 9:32:24 AM EST
My DD middy will not shoot any Russian made steel cased crap. It has worked reliably with every other round I have fed it without a single issue. This includes X193, M855, PMC bronze, PMC X-tac, PPU 55gr, and Hornady Zombies. Since you don't shoot Russian crap anyway....you should be fine.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 10:00:17 AM EST
I've had a coupleof middies, and neither of them ever missed a beat. My current one is a Spikes 14.5" and I've never had a FTF or FTE with PMC, Fiocchi, Black Hills, American Eagle Black Box or anything else I've fed it. I have not tried any of the Roosky crap in any of my guns.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 10:01:28 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 10:04:26 AM EST
You don't get reliability from being a carbine vs. midlength, you get it from all of the factors and components being quality, done right, and working together.

I've seen midlengths that have run with 100% reliability, and I've seen them that didn't work well at all.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 10:28:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By GlutealCleft:
You don't get reliability from being a carbine vs. midlength, you get it from all of the factors and components being quality, done right, and working together.

I've seen midlengths that have run with 100% reliability, and I've seen them that didn't work well at all.


That is why my DelTon will run anything and the guy's with
the big buck rigs need expensive ammo to run at all.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 10:32:20 AM EST
I have been personally keeping tabs on seven since 2007. So far they have run 100% despite being fed a mixed bag of ammo from random magazines.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 10:52:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:

Originally Posted By jmreagan:
I'm starting a new build and decided upon a KISS rifle. I went with a 14.7 inch, CHF, 1/7 Mid-length gas,
The 14" middys "can" have problems, I think most of them have the correct gas ports now.

If it has a problem its a easy fix.

That does not mean they aren't reliable. My 14.5 LW middy is now my go to rifle whenever I go to the range


This. I haven't had any problems with my 14.5" LW middy either.

And all the 16" middys I have have been uber reliable with all types of ammunition as well.

Link Posted: 11/17/2012 11:18:33 AM EST
No issues with my new DD 14.5 gov middy - standard carbine buffer and auto bcg.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 8:01:14 PM EST
I haven't found any thing my 16" PSA middy wont shoot, Monarch steel case, Herters steel case, PMC X-Tac, you name it. I've shot almost 1,000 rounds of PMC bronze through it and never had a malfunction.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 9:37:59 PM EST
All of my 556 rifles are Middy's including my SBR. Between the 4 of them I have nearly 100,000 rounds with no issues.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 9:48:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By Fairplay:
Originally Posted By GlutealCleft:
You don't get reliability from being a carbine vs. midlength, you get it from all of the factors and components being quality, done right, and working together.

I've seen midlengths that have run with 100% reliability, and I've seen them that didn't work well at all.


That is why my DelTon will run anything and the guy's with
the big buck rigs need expensive ammo to run at all.


Huh?

Link Posted: 11/18/2012 12:11:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By Blacktide:
Originally Posted By Fairplay:
Originally Posted By GlutealCleft:
You don't get reliability from being a carbine vs. midlength, you get it from all of the factors and components being quality, done right, and working together.

I've seen midlengths that have run with 100% reliability, and I've seen them that didn't work well at all.


That is why my DelTon will run anything and the guy's with
the big buck rigs need expensive ammo to run at all.


Huh?



I'm going to guess he's talking about rifles like the Larue or SR15 that don't always function properly with .223 pressure ammunition with out a change in buffer weight or spring strength. It doesn't seem to happen to everyone, but it definitely happens.

I want a rifle to feed everything from crap Tula in 10 degree weather to hot M855 in 110 degree weather. I prefer 14.5's with a carbine gas system and pencil profile.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 12:18:18 AM EST
No problems with PMC Bronze or Wolf in my 14.7 mid, runs smooth as can be. Wouldn't go any heavier than an H buffer in mine.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 12:42:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By Fairplay:
Originally Posted By GlutealCleft:
You don't get reliability from being a carbine vs. midlength, you get it from all of the factors and components being quality, done right, and working together.

I've seen midlengths that have run with 100% reliability, and I've seen them that didn't work well at all.


That is why my DelTon will run anything and the guy's with
the big buck rigs need expensive ammo to run at all.


I wouldn't laugh so fast. I have a co-worker at my part time job that always complains his Delton won't shoot Brown Bear or Tula without FTE issues.

At the end of the day, any rifle can be picky, regardless of manufacturer.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 1:27:37 AM EST
My middy has had no problem eating any ammo I have tried. It is a BCM, but as long as your gas port is large enough it should be fine with your FN.__

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Link Posted: 11/18/2012 5:41:18 AM EST
I've got a BMC middy. It's eaten everything I've ever put through it.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 6:22:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/18/2012 6:27:10 AM EST by ColdBlood]
I picked up a 14.5" Noveske Middy last August. It's since had about 3,000 rounds through it. I have run the gun dry and dirty more often than anyone here would recommend. Most of what I shoot through it is cheap brass cased .223 pressure 55 grain loads. So far, the weapon has ZERO malfunctions.

I'll be interested in carbine length gas and/or piston systems the day that half the BULLSHIT I've heard about mid-length gas comes true.

ETA - I think a lot of problems you hear about with mid-lengths is when guys get them from places where they don't bore out the gas port to the proper size, or the guys just aren't using the proper buffer for their application. This is why WHERE/WHO you buy from can make all the difference in the world, in my opinion.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 6:54:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By ATACORION:
All of my 556 rifles are Middy's including my SBR. Between the 4 of them I have nearly 100,000 rounds with no issues.


Id love to see/hear more about this middy SBR. 13.5" maybe?
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 12:32:23 PM EST
99 problems but my middy ain't one!
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 1:00:23 PM EST
I have several middys in both 14.7 & 16'' configurations and all are reliable. All are PSAs for what it's worth....
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 1:09:35 PM EST
I just finished my first AR15 earlier this week and got the chance to take it out today. It's a 16" midlength, and I shot 500 rounds that were a combination of PMC and Tulammo .223. No issues to mention. I'm currently running a carbine buffer, so I'm not sure how it would work with an H or H2, but it was pretty smooth anyways so I doubt I'll change it.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 1:55:47 PM EST
I own 3 middy carbines and they are both reliable at 14.5" and 16". They digest everything even the Russian Silver Bear. One of them is full auto and have no jams.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 2:17:57 PM EST
My Spikes middy has been flawless from day one - I've put high end ammo through it, as well as the cheapest crap I can find and it eats it like a fat kid at a dessert bar. Love it - IMHO the middy is one of the best AR variants you can get. Not to say a carbine isn't reliable, but the middy offers a few advantages I am privy to.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 2:20:14 PM EST
I have two 14.7" rifles, both middies.
One has a complete PSA lighter profile upper, the other I built from a 16" PSA lighter profile barrel I picked up off the EE and shortened myself. Before I pout the GB on, I measured the gas port in case in case it was too small. It measured .078" which is pretty large, so I left it alone and assembled the upper.

Both rifles run Wolf without missing a beat and hold open the bolt on the last round.

Joe
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 2:27:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/18/2012 2:30:52 PM EST by ColdBlood]
Originally Posted By Fairplay:
Originally Posted By GlutealCleft:
You don't get reliability from being a carbine vs. midlength, you get it from all of the factors and components being quality, done right, and working together.

I've seen midlengths that have run with 100% reliability, and I've seen them that didn't work well at all.


That is why my DelTon will run anything and the guy's with
the big buck rigs need expensive ammo to run at all.


If your rifle cycles cheap under-powered ammo flawlessly, then it's because you have a lighter buffer and possibly a weaker spring. In that case, I'd almost bet you money you would be replacing some parts after a few thousand rounds of hot 5.56 loads. Del-Ton realizes that guys who buy cheap rifles are going to want to shoot cheap ammo and they will rarely, if ever, use good/hot ammo.

So yes, your rifle may shoot that stuff just fine, but it's at the expense of durability when firing hotter ammo. And there's nothing wrong with that - it makes sens if you plan to use your rifle more for plinking than killing stuff.

I use my "big bucks" rifle to kill stuff as large as coyotes on my property, so I prefer to use and practice with hotter, more accurate loads. When I can get XM193 for 35 cents a round and 77 grain Black Hills for 72 cents a round, I just don't have the need to try cheaper ammo, and I never have.

If I want to shoot cheap and just get in a little trigger time, I get out one of my 10/22's.

ETA - if you want good, accurate ammo on the cheap, PRVI Partizan has 69 and 77 grain 223 loads that can be had for 50 cents a round. They're not loaded super hot, so they would be ideal for a rifle set up to shoot lower powered stuff.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 3:19:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/18/2012 3:19:54 PM EST by TheJammer]
Zero issues with my BCM 14.5 middy with an H buffer. It is by far my favorite setup.

Originally Posted By WhiskeyMedic:
99 problems but my middy ain't one!


Link Posted: 11/21/2012 3:55:50 AM EST
Thanks to all that have replied. It's good to hear so many positive responses. Now the question is: What weight buffer and spring should I run this middy upper with? I shoot FED XM and the X-Tac 5.56 pressure stuff 75% of the time and the .223 PMC and Federal Bulk 25% of the time... I appreciate the responses...
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 7:04:14 AM EST
The go-to/standard combo for a 14.5" or 16" mid would be a standard spring and an H buffer.

I run that combo in a few mids, and never a single hiccup.

I also run a Sprinco blue spring with an H2 in a few mids. This combo is smooth as butter. Never a single hiccup with that combo ever. Only issue I've ever run into here was just one of my ARs wouldn't lock the bolt back after the last round with lower powered PMC Bronze.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 10:38:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR-Ryan21:
The go-to/standard combo for a 14.5" or 16" mid would be a standard spring and an H buffer.

I run that combo in a few mids, and never a single hiccup.

I also run a Sprinco blue spring with an H2 in a few mids. This combo is smooth as butter. Never a single hiccup with that combo ever. Only issue I've ever run into here was just one of my ARs wouldn't lock the bolt back after the last round with lower powered PMC Bronze.


Good to know... Would using a Spikes Tactical -T2 Tungsten buffer be a problem? I see on Spikes site that they sell their standard Middy's with the same buffer that they use on their carbine rifles.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 10:49:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By Fairplay:
Originally Posted By GlutealCleft:
You don't get reliability from being a carbine vs. midlength, you get it from all of the factors and components being quality, done right, and working together.

I've seen midlengths that have run with 100% reliability, and I've seen them that didn't work well at all.


That is why my DelTon will run anything and the guy's with
the big buck rigs need expensive ammo to run at all.

No, it's because your rifle is over gassed because when you buy a cheap rifle they assume you're going to buy cheap ammo. The opposite is true of people who buy expensive rigs.
That being said, I love my middy.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 11:06:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By jmreagan:
Originally Posted By AR-Ryan21:
The go-to/standard combo for a 14.5" or 16" mid would be a standard spring and an H buffer.

I run that combo in a few mids, and never a single hiccup.

I also run a Sprinco blue spring with an H2 in a few mids. This combo is smooth as butter. Never a single hiccup with that combo ever. Only issue I've ever run into here was just one of my ARs wouldn't lock the bolt back after the last round with lower powered PMC Bronze.


Good to know... Would using a Spikes Tactical -T2 Tungsten buffer be a problem? I see on Spikes site that they sell their standard Middy's with the same buffer that they use on their carbine rifles.


Mine hasn't given me a problem at all. Spike's 14.5 with Dynacomp, ST-T2 and standard spring. Smooth set up. Couple of RSO's were commenting on how there was almost no muzzle rise the other day.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 2:20:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By jmreagan:
Originally Posted By AR-Ryan21:
The go-to/standard combo for a 14.5" or 16" mid would be a standard spring and an H buffer.

I run that combo in a few mids, and never a single hiccup.

I also run a Sprinco blue spring with an H2 in a few mids. This combo is smooth as butter. Never a single hiccup with that combo ever. Only issue I've ever run into here was just one of my ARs wouldn't lock the bolt back after the last round with lower powered PMC Bronze.


Good to know... Would using a Spikes Tactical -T2 Tungsten buffer be a problem? I see on Spikes site that they sell their standard Middy's with the same buffer that they use on their carbine rifles.

I don't recommend them due to the lack of buffering, which the standard construction buffers provide.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 3:54:42 PM EST
I run a ST-T2 never had one issue. "

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