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Posted: 4/29/2004 6:22:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/29/2004 6:24:06 PM EST by Gunzer]
I want my SHTF carbine ( it's not built yet ) to have a two stage trigger. Are they capable of maintaining their two stage feel and the kind of function every time reliability one would expect in a SHTF carbine
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 11:58:29 AM EST
I'm pretty sure the KAC one will. Supposedly they're used in miliatry rilfes (SPR?). I'm not so sure about the others. Jewell, probably not. RRA, maybe, especially if it's one of the White Oak "tuned" ones.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 1:00:54 PM EST
No question that the KAC 2-stage is smooth as silk. But, for a SHTF rifle your best bet for reliability is to stick with your stock trigger.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 3:05:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 3:23:54 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 4:16:27 PM EST
(some) Special Operations snipers use SPR's in combat and they have KAC match grade triggers as far as I know.

Snipers have used match grade triggers on gas-operated service rifles since the Korean war era M1D garand.

I trust them, but I would loctite the ajustments on an ajustable trigger.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 7:09:44 PM EST
I have a RRA two stage match trigger in my semi M4. I have appoximately 8K rounds through it with no problems. Over 4K were at Blackwater for a Carbine class. I have heard of people having problems with them going single stage but mine has been great. I am putting a Hollinger tuned one in my SPR when the upper arrives.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 7:31:50 PM EST
"problems with them going single stage"

That would not result in any change in reliability (it would still fire every time the trigger was pulled.)

That might force forfieture of an NRA hi-power match but otherwise no negative effects.
Link Posted: 4/30/2004 7:47:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/1/2004 5:10:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/1/2004 5:12:18 AM EST by Gunzer]
Those of you that stand by the KAC setup, are you referring to the "98032 Match 2 Stage Trigger Mechanism" - I cut / pasted this from their web site. The one that seems to retail for $310.00?

Link Posted: 5/1/2004 6:36:16 AM EST
I am not exactly sure where I stuck my KAC mil cataloge but that does sound right.

I have a KAC F/A kit in my work gun and a few semi kits in other items.
I am sold.

*PS thanks for the bag Chen, I've had it over a year and never publically thanked him.

Link Posted: 5/1/2004 8:47:40 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/1/2004 12:06:44 PM EST
First of all let me say that I love the Knights trigger (I have the full auto version that I use with a RDIAS)

Second, let me say that it has Failed me.

It worked great for 1000's of rounds then.. it did Not work in semi. Fire the first round in semi and then nothing would happen no first stage, no second stage, NO bang. Swich to full auto, worked fine, switch to semi, one shot and then nothing. It stayed on the disconector. The problem was Set Screws, I think the trigger came locktighted from the factory but apparently I somehow managed to disolve the stuff. I used Tetra for a while then switched to Militech 1, or maybe it was that one time I used gunscrubber?

Anyway, the trigger caused a falure to fire for me.

Will I continue to use it? Yes, I really like it, I think its bennifets outweigh its limitations, however, I would practice some monitoring if it was in a SHTF rifle
Link Posted: 5/1/2004 1:52:41 PM EST
Sounds like it came out of adjustment because the set screws were not loctited. The commercial KAC triggers do not leave the factory with loctited set screws. You have to do that. How would you fine tune it in to your lower if it did?
Link Posted: 5/1/2004 9:03:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/2/2004 4:31:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/2/2004 5:51:05 AM EST by Theo]
I remember my trigger coming from the dealer (MSTN) with loctite visible on it. I don't remember any literature coming with it, but I seem to remember it was supposed to be a factory pre-adjusted drop in. I started a thread here when I started having trouble with it and the general consensus was to try anything but mess with the factory settings. I tried about everything, and then just to make sure the setscrews were tight I tried them only to find that they turned freely. The trigger is easy to adjust. I just need to find a loctight that holds up to the solvents, oils, heat, vibration, and other environmental conditions.

Loctight? Solder? Silver solder? Rockset?

Back to the original question.. Yes I would have a 2 stage trigger in a SHTF rifle. You have to remember that SHTF for you is going to be different than SHTF for the military. You can't call in air strikes, artillery or special teams, you are probably going to be on your home turf and shot placement and accuracy is going to be more important than "long term" reliability, you will be maintaining your own rifle and can do the necessary steps to make it reliable. It is highly unlikely that you will need to expend thousands of rounds of ammo in domestic SHTF situations, however it is highly likely that you will need to be able to hit what your aiming at.

Equate it to cars. An "normal" car is going to have less maintance issues and is going to be more reliable than a "sports" car for day to day use, However, with proper maintance a sports car can be very reliable... and if your ever in a race...

Link Posted: 5/2/2004 9:14:46 AM EST
KAC uses Loctite 277. It is permenant. Only the application of heat should loosen it. De-grease the screws first and try that. Your full-auto trigger unit should have come with instructions. They are pre-adjusted for fit and function, but still need to be loctited.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 5:32:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 5:50:11 PM EST
The JP-ent single stage match trigger can be set up with select fire rifles also. It's a good alternative to those who don't have $300 to spend on a trigger.
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