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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/11/2003 4:58:34 AM EDT
Alright this may sound a little stupid but I seriously need the help. I recently just went back into the reserves after being out for 5 years. I wanted to score high on my rifle marksmanship so I went out and bought an AR15 to practice with.

Coming from the city, I don’t have a hell of a lot of choices of where I can go practice shoot. So I settled for shooting the Alternate C course (scaled down paper target at 25 meters). After several months of dedicated practice my averages were great. Perfect scores according to military standards for the AltC course. Almost 100% directly center mass in the circle with excellent shot groups.

Come qualification day on the pop-up range I only scored 26 out of 40 to my complete disappointment and surprise. Anyway my question would be does any one have any suggestions for improving my qualifications score for pop-up targets? I feel I know the fundamentals but for some reason was just not pulling it off that day. I would love to get more practice time in on a range like that but unfortunately it doesn’t seem possible.

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 6:27:40 AM EDT
With Pop-Ups you have several issues you don't have with the Alt Course C; 1) What Zero did you use? The 8/3 +1 click method produces a trajectory that is rather high (instead of a 300M trajectory its closer to 400 yards). This can cause problems on the 100-150y yard targets especially. 2) There is the reaction to the targets - that can only be correct by practice and training. 3) Pop-Ups do get worn out - or aren't calibrated correctly and my not go down. I've seen this several times. This may account for a target or two. However your best bet would be to go out and get some decent training. You're in luck - there is an EXCELLENT 3 day carbine course in Pittsburgh this September (13-15th) and its inexpensive. Some of the drills you learn will probably help you with reaction. For practicing them at home I'd suggest buying a shot timer. The quicker you learn to react to the target - the more time you have to aim & fire.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 6:33:12 AM EDT
Link to a review on the class I talked about: [url]http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/carbine1p1.msnw[/url]
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 6:46:00 AM EDT
I don't have any real suggestions, but I qualified for expert marksman 3 times out of 4. One time qualifiying was in a rain storm. The one that got me was when they had it set up where the brass was flying at me from the guy next to me. That messed up my aiming because I was worried about that hot brass flying my way.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 7:14:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2003 7:15:23 AM EDT by NightShade]
I shot with the M16A4 - 6/3 zero. I did mess up and had it one click passed when I zeroed though (Not used to the A4's). But the shot group was tight and I kept the elevation knob the same when I shot the pop-ups. The close range targets were not really a problem. It was the 200 to 300 targets I was missing. Surprisingly the more distant targets used to be my stronger point.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 8:57:50 AM EDT
Don’t know that I can add much. You might’ve just been having a bad day. I find that I have really good days where I can almost point the rifle at the ground and hit the target; and I have really bad days where I couldn’t hit a barn if I was inside it!! If possible, try to shoot the course with a coach. Sometimes they can see things that you miss. For example, you might be looking at the targets when firing rather than at the front sight (which is pretty easy to do with reactive targets). The earlier suggestion about getting a timer is excellent. If you have a problem getting a range for an AR, consider getting a Ruger 10/22 or such. Ammo is a lot cheaper, you can shoot one on just about any range, and the concepts are the same. Good luck!!
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 1:00:18 PM EDT
As mentioned before, some of those targets are pretty well sieved by the previous 400 hits. It's very easy to shoot through the swiss cheese and not get credit. If things aren't going well, hold low. A ricochet keyholing bullet will take out even a shot up target. The cloud of high speed sand and stone with it will also take out the target.
Link Posted: 8/31/2003 6:06:19 AM EDT
Make sure your rifle is properly zeroed. Verify this 2 or 3 times before you consider the weapon properly zeroed. And keep a complete record of sight adjustments made. And try the IBZ. [url]http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/improvedbattlesightzero.msnw[/url]
Link Posted: 8/31/2003 5:52:07 PM EDT
Just to add a little more here... I would bet your problems are almost entirely related to elevation and point of aim. Shooting at different sized silhouettes all at 25M is fine but, you need the practice of actually shooting at 200M and 300M targets and 'experiencing' the trajectory of the bullet. Actaully firing at those distances is a lot different than firing at 25M. I don't think swinging across the lane is that big an issue unless you are really jumpy when you're in the lane. If you are reasonably focused and are calming yourself before squeezing the shot off each time, you should be ok. Lastly, are practicing prone off the hand? (as opposed to sitting or prone off bags?) Finding a foxhole to practice from is obviously difficult but at least make sure you are practicing prone supported by your arm. You can also somewhat duplicate the foxhole position by kneeling on the ground at the table, if your range has them and they're not too tall. And, since you are at the bare minimum qualifying score, don't be afraid to give up a 300M shot in favor of making a closer one. In other words, if you pop off at a 100 or 150M target and it doesn't fall, dump another shot into it and let one of the 300's come and go without a shot. There are only four of them (two at each position) and you can still qualify expert without ever taking a shot any of them. It is far better to put that 150 down with two than to miss it and the 300... If you are in eastern PA, consider coming out to one of the NJ shoots sometime. We have a 200 yard range on Ft Dix. Check out the NY/NJ Hometown forum for more info. Good luck with your practice!
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