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11/20/2019 5:07:11 PM
Posted: 10/22/2013 3:41:55 PM EST
Two thing I absolutely hate about the AR15 rifles are: Vertical grips and quad rails. The first is not only useless, but also dangerous in a life, or death situation. The later is a necessary evil to mount required accessories.

Vertical grips are not comfortable. Nor are they a natural way to hold a rifle. They are a detriment to accuracy and to quick target acquisition. No one in ANY serious shooting competition uses them. I cringe when I see pictures of our troops holding these broomsticks. If my life depended on a rifle, the VFG would be the first thing to go right into the garbage. I actually laugh at apologists who are using them as hand stops instead.

My beef with quad rails is comfort. It's impossible to grip a quad rail in any normal fashion. Reliability, accuracy, and comfort. Very important. A good rifle should have some sort of an area up front where it's designed for a hand to grab onto. Magpul MOE handguards are actually fantastic, but I do like to free float the barrel. Daniel Defense is my go to rail simply because it's incredibly light and slim (oval shaped). With Magpul XTM enhanced covers, it's somewhat pleasant to hold.

Enter the AFG2. A truly serious, remarkable, and absolutely required product. FINALLY the AR platform has something designed for a human hand to grab onto up front. It only took 50 years for this invention. Something that all other rifles have been implementing for over a century.

Best thing I bought for my AR in years.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 7:03:07 PM EST
I took all mine off and replaced with them with lanco grip stops. Way more comfortable in my opinion. I'll use them till something better comes along and I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 7:26:34 PM EST
Meh.
Link Posted: 10/22/2013 7:50:24 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TexasRifleman:
Meh.
View Quote


This
Link Posted: 10/23/2013 5:44:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By invictus006:
Two thing I absolutely hate about the AR15 rifles are: Vertical grips and quad rails. The first is not only useless, but also dangerous in a life, or death situation. The later is a necessary evil to mount required accessories.

Vertical grips are not comfortable. Nor are they a natural way to hold a rifle. They are a detriment to accuracy and to quick target acquisition. No one in ANY serious shooting competition uses them. I cringe when I see pictures of our troops holding these broomsticks. If my life depended on a rifle, the VFG would be the first thing to go right into the garbage. I actually laugh at apologists who are using them as hand stops instead.

My beef with quad rails is comfort. It's impossible to grip a quad rail in any normal fashion. Reliability, accuracy, and comfort. Very important. A good rifle should have some sort of an area up front where it's designed for a hand to grab onto. Magpul MOE handguards are actually fantastic, but I do like to free float the barrel. Daniel Defense is my go to rail simply because it's incredibly light and slim (oval shaped). With Magpul XTM enhanced covers, it's somewhat pleasant to hold.

Enter the AFG2. A truly serious, remarkable, and absolutely required product. FINALLY the AR platform has something designed for a human hand to grab onto up front. It only took 50 years for this invention. Something that all other rifles have been implementing for over a century.

Best thing I bought for my AR in years.
View Quote


Amazon has one for about $30 with free shipping. Is that a pretty good deal?
Link Posted: 10/23/2013 6:00:18 PM EST
How is a vert grip dangerous and useless? Seriously, that is asinine. The AFG is uncomfortable to me and feels awkward.
Link Posted: 10/23/2013 6:21:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2013 6:22:24 PM EST by lowonair]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chewbacca:
How is a vert grip dangerous and useless? Seriously, that is asinine. The AFG is uncomfortable to me and feels awkward.
View Quote


This. I guess all those vfg's in war zones are just so deadly.

Eta: for me the afg is horrendous. I'm sure the second version is only worse.
Link Posted: 10/23/2013 6:28:35 PM EST
Well, your rifle...your opinion. Have you used a rifle in combat? Is the way you hold your rifle the only way?
Link Posted: 10/23/2013 8:19:04 PM EST
AFG was a godsend for me. VFGs and no FG were both uncomfortable for me... AFG is the perfect angle for me.

Everybody is different though.
Link Posted: 10/23/2013 8:51:54 PM EST
IMO, stubby vertical grips are far better than the AFG series.
Link Posted: 10/23/2013 8:54:57 PM EST
OP, you need a poll. I prefer VFG.
Link Posted: 10/23/2013 8:59:42 PM EST
I have both a TangoDown QD Stubby VFG and an AFG2. I kind of prefer the VFG over the AFG, but it's all a matter of individual preference.

Link Posted: 10/23/2013 9:09:33 PM EST
I thought VFGs were designed for people with very top-heavy rifles. I have one optic and don't need a ton of leverage to keep things sitting upright. AFG or just rail covers of some sort is the way to go for me.
Link Posted: 10/23/2013 9:31:10 PM EST
My opinion and personnel experience is stubby vertical grips for short barreled rifles and angled grips on full length rifles.
Link Posted: 10/23/2013 10:55:42 PM EST
Used a VFG. Hated it.

Used an AFG. Very uncomfortable.


All down to shooter preference and what makes the shooter more comfortable. With that being said, I will stick to my skinny Troy Alpha rail with no FG's.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 6:38:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By invictus006:
Two thing I absolutely hate about the AR15 rifles are: Vertical grips and quad rails. The first is not only useless, but also dangerous in a life, or death situation. The later is a necessary evil to mount required accessories.

Vertical grips are not comfortable. Nor are they a natural way to hold a rifle. They are a detriment to accuracy and to quick target acquisition. No one in ANY serious shooting competition uses them. I cringe when I see pictures of our troops holding these broomsticks. If my life depended on a rifle, the VFG would be the first thing to go right into the garbage. I actually laugh at apologists who are using them as hand stops instead.

My beef with quad rails is comfort. It's impossible to grip a quad rail in any normal fashion. Reliability, accuracy, and comfort. Very important. A good rifle should have some sort of an area up front where it's designed for a hand to grab onto. Magpul MOE handguards are actually fantastic, but I do like to free float the barrel. Daniel Defense is my go to rail simply because it's incredibly light and slim (oval shaped). With Magpul XTM enhanced covers, it's somewhat pleasant to hold.

Enter the AFG2. A truly serious, remarkable, and absolutely required product. FINALLY the AR platform has something designed for a human hand to grab onto up front. It only took 50 years for this invention. Something that all other rifles have been implementing for over a century.

Best thing I bought for my AR in years.
View Quote




Thank you, oh great one, for showing us all the error of our ways. Whatever would we have done without you?



~Augee
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 10:36:21 AM EST
VFG, AFG...wait til you learn barricade work.

You'll end up disliking them REAL quick

But then again, most people don't get that far in training.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 8:36:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2013 8:37:09 PM EST by invictus006]
I think my point is getting a bit lost here because there's a misunderstanding that the AFG2 has to be used a certain way, or only works on certain sized rifles. I just want a place that is somewhat formed to my hand to hold onto. Anything from Napoleon's era to AK to shotguns have a designated area for a human hand, so why none on the AR? A broomstick, or a stubby used as a hand stop is not a comfortable, natural, nor proper way to handle a rifle with. I laugh when I see noobs at the range using their broomsticks as monopods, but when shooting while standing up, they all of a sudden grab the mag well. Especially for long range. It's impossible to be accurate with a broomstick.
Link Posted: 10/24/2013 8:41:40 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By invictus006:
It's impossible to be accurate with a broomstick.
View Quote


You're generalizing again.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:38:55 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By invictus006:
I think my point is getting a bit lost here because there's a misunderstanding that the AFG2 has to be used a certain way, or only works on certain sized rifles. I just want a place that is somewhat formed to my hand to hold onto. Anything from Napoleon's era to AK to shotguns have a designated area for a human hand, so why none on the AR? A broomstick, or a stubby used as a hand stop is not a comfortable, natural, nor proper way to handle a rifle with. I laugh when I see noobs at the range using their broomsticks as monopods, but when shooting while standing up, they all of a sudden grab the mag well. Especially for long range. It's impossible to be accurate with a broomstick.
View Quote


Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:44:33 AM EST
Since you're stating that VFG's are dangerous and inaccurate in military use, what is your combat experience?
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:49:52 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By invictus006:. I just want a place that is somewhat formed to my hand to hold onto. Anything from Napoleon's era to AK to shotguns have a designated area for a human hand, so why none on the AR?.
View Quote




There's this round thing around the barrel, called a hand guard.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:55:01 AM EST
I have both...and coming from someone who fractured his wrist playing hockey, I prefer the afg on my shotgun and the vfg on my ar.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:04:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2013 5:05:08 AM EST by RDTCU]
Used all different setups.

I have an AFG on one SBR, and it works well for me on that particular rifle.

Everything else is bare.

To each his own, what's good for you might not be good for someone else.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:21:43 AM EST
LOL
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:35:25 AM EST
I liked the AFG until I tried this.





It's much more comfortable. It is a cut down LaRue handstop with a hole drilled though it.

I still have AFGs on a couple things but have switched most of my ARs to the LaRue.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 9:01:20 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By millsusaf:
I liked the AFG until I tried this.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-TGaT9WCx6pw/UgAVBRELmHI/AAAAAAAABGg/xiE4EbPGFlg/w1024-h576-no/IMG_20130805_170857_898

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y6T7m8jZlrA/UgAVCcaNlRI/AAAAAAAABGo/cSZz03waLPA/w1024-h576-no/IMG_20130805_170836_765

It's much more comfortable. It is a cut down LaRue handstop with a hole drilled though it.

I still have AFGs on a couple things but have switched most of my ARs to the LaRue.
View Quote


+1 Larue on a Larue rail. Love it!
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 11:16:46 AM EST
Don't even know why I am responding, the troll is obvious.

Originally Posted By invictus006:Vertical grips are not comfortable. Nor are they a natural way to hold a rifle. They are a detriment to accuracy and to quick target acquisition. No one in ANY serious shooting competition uses them. I cringe when I see pictures of our troops holding these broomsticks. If my life depended on a rifle, the VFG would be the first thing to go right into the garbage. I actually laugh at apologists who are using them as hand stops instead.
View Quote


You just think you are God's gift huh? A buddy of mine deployed 4 times with the Army Rangers, twice in Afghanistan and twice in Iraq with VFGs. I personally hate them, but he swears by them and keeps them on his personal rifles. I'd love to see you, a nobody, tell a real high level, combat experienced soldier that he is doing it wrong.

I don't have the experience of my buddy but I hate VFGs and the AFG is even more stupid. The bottom line is one size, fits all solutions suck in everyway, including your stupid generalization. What works for one person may not work for another and that is okay. If you even knew how vertical grips came about you'd realize that at the time it was a fantastic solution to a real problem.

Originally Posted By invictus006:
I think my point is getting a bit lost here because there's a misunderstanding that the AFG2 has to be used a certain way, or only works on certain sized rifles. I just want a place that is somewhat formed to my hand to hold onto. Anything from Napoleon's era to AK to shotguns have a designated area for a human hand, so why none on the AR?
View Quote


Your right! Rifles all the way back then to the AK do have a place to put your hand. It is called a handguard and the AR has one too.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 11:19:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2013 11:20:02 AM EST by MadMonkey]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 556NAT0:
I don't have the experience of my buddy but I hate VFGs and the AFG is even more stupid.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 556NAT0:
I don't have the experience of my buddy but I hate VFGs and the AFG is even more stupid.


Somewhere between you and the OP is the real world where different people have different tastes, but somehow manage to get along regardless.

The bottom line is one size, fits all solutions suck in everyway, including your stupid generalization


The irony in this statement is breathtaking.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 9:38:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 556NAT0:
Don't even know why I am responding, the troll is obvious.



You just think you are God's gift huh? A buddy of mine deployed 4 times with the Army Rangers, twice in Afghanistan and twice in Iraq with VFGs. I personally hate them, but he swears by them and keeps them on his personal rifles. I'd love to see you, a nobody, tell a real high level, combat experienced soldier that he is doing it wrong.

I don't have the experience of my buddy but I hate VFGs and the AFG is even more stupid. The bottom line is one size, fits all solutions suck in everyway, including your stupid generalization. What works for one person may not work for another and that is okay. If you even knew how vertical grips came about you'd realize that at the time it was a fantastic solution to a real problem.



Your right! Rifles all the way back then to the AK do have a place to put your hand. It is called a handguard and the AR has one too.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 556NAT0:
Don't even know why I am responding, the troll is obvious.

Originally Posted By invictus006:Vertical grips are not comfortable. Nor are they a natural way to hold a rifle. They are a detriment to accuracy and to quick target acquisition. No one in ANY serious shooting competition uses them. I cringe when I see pictures of our troops holding these broomsticks. If my life depended on a rifle, the VFG would be the first thing to go right into the garbage. I actually laugh at apologists who are using them as hand stops instead.


You just think you are God's gift huh? A buddy of mine deployed 4 times with the Army Rangers, twice in Afghanistan and twice in Iraq with VFGs. I personally hate them, but he swears by them and keeps them on his personal rifles. I'd love to see you, a nobody, tell a real high level, combat experienced soldier that he is doing it wrong.

I don't have the experience of my buddy but I hate VFGs and the AFG is even more stupid. The bottom line is one size, fits all solutions suck in everyway, including your stupid generalization. What works for one person may not work for another and that is okay. If you even knew how vertical grips came about you'd realize that at the time it was a fantastic solution to a real problem.

Originally Posted By invictus006:
I think my point is getting a bit lost here because there's a misunderstanding that the AFG2 has to be used a certain way, or only works on certain sized rifles. I just want a place that is somewhat formed to my hand to hold onto. Anything from Napoleon's era to AK to shotguns have a designated area for a human hand, so why none on the AR?


Your right! Rifles all the way back then to the AK do have a place to put your hand. It is called a handguard and the AR has one too.


I've been a member on this forum for over 4 years and not once trolled. Someone calling me a troll is where I draw the line. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 8:12:24 AM EST
The AFG2 works well for me. To each his/her own.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 2:45:39 PM EST
When I talk about the dangers faced in A-Stan during my deployments. The first thing that comes to mind is my VFG...



no but seriously I do love my afg. I thought I wouldnt but it grew on me extremely fast. I only like them on middies tho. I plan on changing my carbine over to a middy to put an afg on it.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 4:09:54 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By invictus006:
I think my point is getting a bit lost here because there's a misunderstanding that the AFG2 has to be used a certain way, or only works on certain sized rifles. I just want a place that is somewhat formed to my hand to hold onto. Anything from Napoleon's era to AK to shotguns have a designated area for a human hand, so why none on the AR? A broomstick, or a stubby used as a hand stop is not a comfortable, natural, nor proper way to handle a rifle with. I laugh when I see noobs at the range using their broomsticks as monopods, but when shooting while standing up, they all of a sudden grab the mag well. Especially for long range. It's impossible to be accurate with a broomstick.
View Quote


So you want a piece of plastic the dictates your hand placement?

Your hand placement along the rail may be different shooting from inside a car, prone (or urban), kneeing, and even barricades than from static (which I assume your doing).
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 4:15:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2013 4:19:11 PM EST by RDTCU]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thevibe:
So you want a piece of plastic the dictates your hand placement?

Your hand placement along the rail may be different shooting from inside a car, prone (or urban), kneeing, and even barricades than from static (which I assume your doing).
View Quote


It's not like it prevents you from gripping it further back, on the magwell, wherever. It doesn't weigh much.

As has been said, it's not for everyone.

I've never liked vertical grips, and I can say if it were my left wrist that were tweaked with tendon damage instead of my right, I would have an AFG on most of my rifles because it's much more comfortable shooting offhanded with the AFG due to not having to have my wrist at such an angle to grab the tube.

Fortunately I'm right handed, so I don't need provisions on the rest of them.

Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:36:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2013 4:45:34 AM EST by jukeboxx13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thevibe:
VFG, AFG...wait til you learn barricade work.

You'll end up disliking them REAL quick

But then again, most people don't get that far in training.
View Quote
VFG'S and barricades here



Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:43:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2013 4:44:22 AM EST by jukeboxx13]
I love my VFG, and can't wait to get the new angled VFG from BCM. The VFG also allows me to use my weapon light with ease as well when using my thumb to activate it.

I feel like I can control the gun better using the thumb over bore technique, and I have made shots out to 200 yards with no problems.

ETA: I use all types of griping techniques for my AR, and I really don't see how its dangerous.


Link Posted: 10/29/2013 12:10:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2013 12:22:29 PM EST by jukeboxx13]
delete

Link Posted: 11/5/2013 11:15:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/5/2013 11:15:46 AM EST by VA-gunnut]
This is not GD.
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