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Posted: 7/26/2013 8:34:11 AM EST
Here is my first attempt at creating the M VP barrel proof marks.  Darn tough to grind a tool to cut it in there cleanly. I'll keep trying to get it close.
Link Posted: 7/26/2013 9:00:13 AM EST
[#1]
The legs of the M look better on the bottom one. Turn the barrel and post that pic.
Link Posted: 7/26/2013 11:45:47 AM EST
[#2]
What barrel did you use?
Link Posted: 7/26/2013 11:47:08 AM EST
[#3]
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Quoted:
The legs of the M look better on the bottom one. Turn the barrel and post that pic.
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I've never seen one with crisp, clear markings.  They all seem to have some blend/fade to them.
Link Posted: 7/26/2013 12:04:28 PM EST
[#4]
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Quoted:

I've never seen one with crisp, clear markings.  They all seem to have some blend/fade to them.
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^^^ What he said.  I don't think Colt factory workers really took the time to make sure the proof marks came out crisp and clear.  I have an upper with proofs that were double-struck.  So the proofs were a little blurry.
Link Posted: 7/26/2013 12:19:07 PM EST
[#5]
Quoted:
Here is my first attempt at creating the M VP barrel proof marks.  Darn tough to grind a tool to cut it in there cleanly. I'll keep trying to get it close.
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz327/T00lmanii/MandVP_zps7ab7eaa0.jpg
View Quote


One question.

How much and where do we send our barrels to?
Link Posted: 7/26/2013 1:02:25 PM EST
[#6]
Very cool, I was wondering when somebody would get around to
This
Link Posted: 7/26/2013 1:48:42 PM EST
[#7]
DITTO
Link Posted: 7/26/2013 2:12:37 PM EST
[#8]
Awesome work.

It just so happens that they were discussing these marks over at the ColtForum the other day.

Stole this for y'all.



Don't know if it will help you or not but I thought it was cool.
Link Posted: 7/26/2013 2:34:22 PM EST
[#9]
Engineer......I turned a piece of stock to .625 to practice on. I'll probably use a stainless barrel that was a takeoff of a Highpower rifle I have. I can get two 10 barrels out of it, but I'll have to wait until my paperwork comes back from ATF. I have a couple 16" SP1 carbine barrels, but I almost hate to cut one of them. They are also chrome lined, which the GX-5857 wouldn't have been. Of course, the GX wouldn't have been stainless either,  I'll go with the stainless and maybe get a chromoly blank in the future and start from scratch.
 .......been playing around here for the last hr or so and I'll post up another pic tonight..........getting better at it. By the way, I'm machining these in on a mill. How I wish I were in a shop that had an EDM machine though. I could produce a stamp instead of having to mill it in.
Link Posted: 7/26/2013 3:27:46 PM EST
[#10]
It would seem to me that one of these stamps could be reproduced my engraving(milling) the VP into a piece of softened steel.

The steel could then be hardened and a softened piece pressed or hammered into it, transferring the mark.

After heat treating you would have a marking punch just like Colt had.

Just remember if you get too good at it you will have to put your own mark somewhere so it doesn't get confused with an original.

And don't let the fake Python box guy get ahold of it.

Link Posted: 7/26/2013 3:52:47 PM EST
[#11]
Damned nice job!
Link Posted: 7/26/2013 3:57:46 PM EST
[#12]
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Quoted:
The legs of the M look better on the bottom one. Turn the barrel and post that pic.
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Teamafx,
            Teh bottoms of the M legs might look better, but the rest doesn't. That was cut with a different tool and overall is pretty ugly. I'll post them all tonight if I get a chance.
BigRix,
          You got me thinking. I might have to try your suggestion on making a die. Might be doable.
Link Posted: 7/26/2013 4:28:00 PM EST
[#13]
The other thing to consider is, knowing Colt the way I do, they probably used the same VP stamps that were made for pistols.

Meaning they were flat and were being used on a round barrel.

That would account for a lot of the weakness of the stamping on one end or the other, hence the weak legs of the M.

Also the metal was moved by the stamp, not removed thus causing what some call flash. The raised metal around the stamp.

I don't know enough about rifles to say for sure but I know that the on pistols the VP was applied after final finishing.

One of the methods for determining a refinish is to take a jeweler's loop and look for blueing to be missing at the bottom of the stamping. If if is all covered in blue, it's been refinished.

Not sure what, if anything this adds to the conversation but I figure if you are looking to make these as correct as possible then more info the better.

Just remember, "With great power, comes great responsibility" *

This could easily be used for nefarious proposes.


*Uncle Ben to Peter Parker
Link Posted: 7/26/2013 4:51:07 PM EST
[#14]
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Quoted:

This could easily be used for nefarious proposes.


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what would be a good compromise?  if i had a barrel marked btw the FSB legs, maybe have the year marked underneath the handguards?  that was it would look good but if it was ever sold, the new owner would be able to find a 2013 mark under the handguards.
Link Posted: 7/26/2013 5:09:33 PM EST
[#15]
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Quoted:


what would be a good compromise?  if i had a barrel marked btw the FSB legs, maybe have the year marked underneath the handguards?  that was it would look good but if it was ever sold, the new owner would be able to find a 2013 mark under the handguards.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

This could easily be used for nefarious proposes.




what would be a good compromise?  if i had a barrel marked btw the FSB legs, maybe have the year marked underneath the handguards?  that was it would look good but if it was ever sold, the new owner would be able to find a 2013 mark under the handguards.



That's what I would do if I could get this done. (I mean when I get Stoner to do it for me)

That or a personal mark of some kind under the handguards.

I want to make a replica barrel that matches my original XM177E2, complete with C MP C markings.

There would need to be some kind of distinguishing mark (hidden) to make sure it was not confused with an original.
Link Posted: 7/26/2013 5:10:35 PM EST
[#16]
Does any one know if these marks were applied after parkerizing?
Link Posted: 7/26/2013 6:58:19 PM EST
[#17]
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Quoted:
Does any one know if these marks were applied after parkerizing?
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I would say that they were stamped AFTER park'ing. That would explain why the M and VP had the black paint applied over them. (per pictures I've seen)


a couple more runs of the milling program.

Link Posted: 7/26/2013 7:30:43 PM EST
[#18]
VERY good work, but I would suggest some test on some cutoffs such as m1sniper recently posted, to get the 'Just don't give a rat's ass - I'm just getting paid to proof it ' look. Really spectacular work guy. I really mean it. Fanfuckingtastic.
Link Posted: 7/26/2013 10:24:31 PM EST
[#19]
I understand there is an interest in making reproduction guns and parts to match the originals, but two things to keep in mind:

1.  Make sure if you are copying markings, it is denoted somewhere on the part that it is a REPRODUCTION.  

2.  Never, ever reproduce markings that would indicate proof testing, etc.  These markings are on there for legal and safety reasons and should be considered legal documentation of such.

Personally, I would not be copying M VP markings as they really cross the line on #2 in my opinion.  You are indicating the barrel was magnetic particle tested and also had a proof load fired through it with those markings, both of which are not the true case.
Link Posted: 7/28/2013 6:58:01 AM EST
[#20]
I don't know what your experience is but I tried to stamp some rev war Charleville musket barrels with reproduction New Hampshire serial numbers.  Even with a 20lb sledge I could barely make an impression. I believe the reproduction musket barrels (Japanese and Italian) are made with 4140 or similar steel.






My next plan is to reproduce my steel stamps in copper or brass and try EDMing the barrels.







I think your milled markings look pretty good and they are different enough to help preclude them being passed off as original.

 
Link Posted: 7/28/2013 7:31:43 AM EST
[#21]
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Quoted:
I don't know what your experience is but I tried to stamp some rev war Charleville musket barrels with reproduction New Hampshire serial numbers.  Even with a 20lb sledge I could barely make an impression. I believe the reproduction musket barrels (Japanese and Italian) are made with 4140 or similar steel.

My next plan is to reproduce my steel stamps in copper or brass and try EDMing the barrels.

I think your milled markings look pretty good and they are different enough to help preclude them being passed off as original.
 
View Quote


If you have access to an EDM sinker, then you probably have access to a hardness tester. I'm betting that any barrel made from 4140 or similer ordnance steel won't test over 34 Rc.  I would think that would stamp easily with a hardened stamp. Wonder what material your barrel was made of?
...........yeah, an EDM and some electrodes made on a pantograph would be the shitz. Actually, the tests I've machined look much better to the naked eye than they do under the scrutiny of a macro lens image.

Dawg180........you got me to thinking. I have to agree with you on marking something pressure proofed that wasn't. I suppose I could load a round to 72,000 lbs, which I believe is the proof round loading for 5.56.........I'd have to check a book I have on modern cartridges. I don't have a doubt on the barrel capability, it's the 50 year old bolt and carrier I'd be concerned about.  I don't have any desire to put myself at risk by selling that service anyway, but if someone wants the numbers to input into a CNC machine I'll pass that info along.
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