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Posted: 9/26/2004 8:02:23 AM EST
M-4: who makes the most correct mil-spec M-4 for sell to civilians?
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 8:04:44 AM EST
Get an complete LMT lower from Dennys and a LMT 14.5" + Vortex Upper and you are done!!
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 8:37:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 8:40:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
I know of no Mil-Spec AR-15 type weapon available for sale to the general public....none.

5sub



You guys never change. He did say "most correct" and you know what that means.

If you are looking for a complete factory rifle.... Bushmaster is going to be the closest... IMHO. Do some searching, this comes up all the time.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 2:49:38 PM EST
Colt LEO carbine 6920. About $1k.

More info here
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 2:52:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 2:52:36 PM EST by M11293]
LMT.

+1

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 2:53:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 3:05:56 PM EST by Mattdawg]
Is the Colt LE 6920 or the BM with the 14.5 and phantom flash more miliraty accurate for a civilian?
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:08:29 PM EST
The Colt LE6920 and LE6921 are the civilian versions of the M4.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:10:15 PM EST
Sorry guys, but LMT uses spec pins, the Colt version doesn't. LMT wins this one by a long shot IMHO.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:11:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Sorry guys, but LMT uses spec pins, the Colt version doesn't. LMT wins this one by a long shot IMHO.



+1


LMT kicks ass.

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:12:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Sorry guys, but LMT uses spec pins, the Colt version doesn't. LMT wins this one by a long shot IMHO.



The new Colts use the oversized firecontrol pins, but have standard push pins. And the large firecontrols are no big deal at all.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:13:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mattdawg:
Is the Colt LE 6920 or the BM with the 14.5 and phantom flash more miliraty accurate for a civilian?



Actually, the Colt LE6921 will be more militarily accurate because it has:

1. A 14.5" chrome-lined barrel w/1:7 twist and A2 FS.
2. M4 feedramp cuts.
3. The correct height FSB.
4. The correct size buffer tube.

The LE6920 is identical, but with a 16" barrel.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:15:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 3:19:41 PM EST by Bradd_D]

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Sorry guys, but LMT uses spec pins, the Colt version doesn't. LMT wins this one by a long shot IMHO.



If LMT is selling complete rifles and using "F" height FSB's, then I would say they are the closest.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:16:44 PM EST
My colt can kick your LMT's ass.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:19:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 3:20:05 PM EST by M4Madness]

Originally Posted By M4Kid:
My colt can kick your LMT's ass.



My full-auto Colt M4 can kick your semi-auto Colt M4's ass.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:24:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 3:27:29 PM EST by faldoc]
Here is my vintage non-M4 ex-PD M16A1 653, no M4 anything.
What I don't get is the M4 barrel: who has a grenade launcher to stick on and even if you get one who has grenades?
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:28:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By M4Kid:
My colt can kick your LMT's ass.



Bring it!!!

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:34:54 PM EST
Could one of you guys please tell me, why is there a "notch" cut into the barrel. I am sure it has be said before, but enlighten me.

Thanks,
FB
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:38:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By Fat_Boy:
Could one of you guys please tell me, why is there a "notch" cut into the barrel. I am sure it has be said before, but enlighten me.

Thanks,
FB



It is for mounting an M203 grenade launcher.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:39:29 PM EST
The site for Dennys to ck. the LMT lowers,Please.Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:43:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By PRMAN45ACP:
The site for Dennys to ck. the LMT lowers,Please.Thanks.



Denny's
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:53:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
The Colt LE6920 and LE6921 are the civilian versions of the M4.



I cant find any info on the LE6921? Woulnt you have to have a SBR lience for a 14.5?
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:54:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 3:57:55 PM EST by Bradd_D]

Originally Posted By Mattdawg:

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
The Colt LE6920 and LE6921 are the civilian versions of the M4.



I cant find any info on the LE6921? Woulnt you have to have a SBR lience for a 14.5?



Yes, that's why I typically say LE6920 first as it's the same rifle with a 16" barrel.

Edited to add a link to info on the LE6921.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:57:47 PM EST
Do you know where the cheapest place to buy a LE6920 online?
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:59:41 PM EST
Do you know where the cheapest place to buy a LE6920 online?
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:00:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mattdawg:
Do you know where the cheapest place to buy a LE6920 online?



Not off hand. I picked up the components for mine prior to the end of the ban and prices/supply have changed dramatically since then. While not the cheapest, SAW LE Sales has them in stock.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:00:22 PM EST
Clyde Armory has an ad for the 6920 in sturmgewehr for about $1040.
Clyde ad
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:14:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Sorry guys, but LMT uses spec pins, the Colt version doesn't. LMT wins this one by a long shot IMHO.



+1

Colt sux.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:21:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Sorry guys, but LMT uses spec pins, the Colt version doesn't. LMT wins this one by a long shot IMHO.



+1

Colt sux.



Colt could sell an exact duplicate down to the fire control pins and you'd still say that. It's gone way beyond comparing rifles with you and, unfortunately, that disease spreads to the new people who come to this site. It's a shame it's so hard to get good information here anymore.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:32:51 PM EST
+1 for LMT
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:37:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Sorry guys, but LMT uses spec pins, the Colt version doesn't. LMT wins this one by a long shot IMHO.



+1

Colt sux.



Colt could sell an exact duplicate down to the fire control pins and you'd still say that. It's gone way beyond comparing rifles with you and, unfortunately, that disease spreads to the new people who come to this site. It's a shame it's so hard to get good information here anymore.



I believe that Colts are fine rifles; I have not personally held many nice Colts, but I do know from reviews and recommendation that they are excellent guns.

I just like LMT more.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:39:35 PM EST
Does anyone know if LMT makes a complete M4 for civilian consumption?
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:40:40 PM EST
Bradd face facts just cause a copyright lets you use the M4 name exclusively there are other things that go into the question that was asked and closet to also means parts sizes so I say get a Bushmaster A3 flat top carbine 14.5 with the KKF birdcage looking longer supressor for legality get it with the 1/7 barrel wich bushmaster will do and put a colt telestock as that is the correct Diameter stock.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:42:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:

Originally Posted By Mattdawg:
Is the Colt LE 6920 or the BM with the 14.5 and phantom flash more miliraty accurate for a civilian?



Actually, the Colt LE6921 will be more militarily accurate because it has:

1. A 14.5" chrome-lined barrel w/1:7 twist and A2 FS.



Oh, you forgot to mention not legal for civilian ownership unless you SBR the receiver..... I dont think that's what he is wanting.... he wants "most correct"


2. M4 feedramp cuts.?


So does LMT... and can be added to a bushy.


3. The correct height FSB.
4. The correct size buffer tube.



And the incorrect size pins.... its a wash there.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:44:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By model927:
Bradd face facts just cause a copyright lets you use the M4 name exclusively there are other things that go into the question that was asked and closet to also means parts sizes so I say get a Bushmaster A3 flat top carbine 14.5 with the KKF birdcage looking longer supressor for legality get it with the 1/7 barrel wich bushmaster will do and put a colt telestock as that is the correct Diameter stock.



I was under the impression we were talking factory rifles here. If that is the case, Colt and LMT, if they make a complete rifle, are the closest. With the rifle you are building, you still won't have M4 feedramps or a correct height FSB so you're still not what the poster is looking for. Quit trying to put a square peg in a circle hole.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:44:49 PM EST
Big pins, little pins, what the hell....................at least mine say's M4.

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:45:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 4:47:20 PM EST by arjohnson]

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Sorry guys, but LMT uses spec pins, the Colt version doesn't. LMT wins this one by a long shot IMHO.



+1

Colt sux.



Not their rifles, only the company. Colt is the only company that makes the most correct M4, all others are forgeries.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:46:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By model927:
Bradd face facts just cause a copyright lets you use the M4 name exclusively there are other things that go into the question that was asked and closet to also means parts sizes so I say get a Bushmaster A3 flat top carbine 14.5 with the KKF birdcage looking longer supressor for legality get it with the 1/7 barrel wich bushmaster will do and put a colt telestock as that is the correct Diameter stock.



Ding ding ding.... we have a winner.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:46:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 4:48:46 PM EST by M11293]
I think Colt's aren't what they used to be and you pay too much for "My Little Pony" emblems and non-spec parts.

But what the hell...they are nice rifles.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:49:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By arjohnson:

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Sorry guys, but LMT uses spec pins, the Colt version doesn't. LMT wins this one by a long shot IMHO.



+1

Colt sux.



Not their rifles, only the company.



Well I agree for the most part... but their bastardization of pins, sear blocking, overly PC crap, and their established base of mindless cultish "Colt Worshippers" make the rifle pretty annoying as well. And I own one.... and yes, I know the differences.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:49:24 PM EST
LMT doesn't have the right FSB, Colt doesnt have the right pin holes.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:50:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:

Originally Posted By Mattdawg:
Is the Colt LE 6920 or the BM with the 14.5 and phantom flash more miliraty accurate for a civilian?



Actually, the Colt LE6921 will be more militarily accurate because it has:

1. A 14.5" chrome-lined barrel w/1:7 twist and A2 FS.



Oh, you forgot to mention not legal for civilian ownership unless you SBR the receiver..... I dont think that's what he is wanting.... he wants "most correct"



Actually, the poster you quoted was asking which one was closer militarily speaking. If you are referring to the original poster, then the LE6920 is closer.


2. M4 feedramp cuts.?

So does LMT... and can be added to a bushy.



If you have to add it to the Bushy, then it's hardly close. Anybody can build an M4. We're talking about factory rifles.


3. The correct height FSB.
4. The correct size buffer tube.

And the incorrect size pins.... its a wash there.



How does one feature wash two features?

Like I said, if LMT makes a complete M4, then I would say they are the closest. Bushmaster is, however, not the closest.

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:53:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Sorry guys, but LMT uses spec pins, the Colt version doesn't. LMT wins this one by a long shot IMHO.



+1

Colt sux.



Colt could sell an exact duplicate down to the fire control pins and you'd still say that.



WRONG. Dont you put words in my mouth........ You dont know me, and you dont know what I would and would not support.... so go jump in a freaking lake! (I'd like to say stronger words... but dont want to diminish my arguments are break CoC.... but you deserve it!)

If Colt made a more to spec rifle, and stopped doing all the steel sear blocks, bastard pin sizes.... and was comperable to a Bushmaster/LMT spec.... and close (doesn't have to be the low cost leader... I actually understand Colt puts a lot of quality in their rifles.....) then I would absolutely support them, and their hardware. YOU sir... owe me an apology. Your hatred for the Anti-colt crowd is blinding your judgement.


It's gone way beyond comparing rifles with you and, unfortunately, that disease spreads to the new people who come to this site. It's a shame it's so hard to get good information here anymore.


Yes it is..... yes it is.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:55:07 PM EST
You know, in all actuality it really doesn't matter. If you are serious enough to get down to pin sizes and FSB heights, you are probably serious enough to get that SBR license. That being said, Colt wins automatically because it has the pony logo which appears on all the real M4s. Not to diss LMT; I think Colt has been going downhill for a while now, and LMT seems like a pretty damn good company.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:55:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 5:01:15 PM EST by model927]
Shit I forgot M4 handguards and the side sling attachment and no front swivel and brad as far as the FSB the height was changed by colt a few years ago and I like to go by the company that first made M4s for seals and SF and that was Bushmaster.Colt only changed dimensions to ther FSB and carry handle to make their rifle so no one can copy it as far as feed ramps I thought those were originally done by colt because of QC problems on some of the rifles that first went to war in afghanistan so I realy dont think the feedramps function holds much water as it was originally done to fix a design flaw any way The closest to spec rifle out the door would be as I stted before along with the other few things I forgot.What was true 13 years ago is true tiday"Colt clearly does not have a monopoly on the quality production of the AR15/M16 the original suplied Bushies went to war with out the feedramps so I guess M4 type rifles work well as long as they are machined right.Oh and Bradd doesent that 6920 rifle you have a pic of have a 16" barrel not a 14.5 I dont even think colt offers a 14.5 with permanent supressor to us pea-ons...screw them they can keep their garbage,and they wonder why they keep losing their market share.I cant wait to see what it is for this year.The only time we are going to get what we want from colt is when the military contracts dry up and they have to start kissing civillian ass and if that ever happens Ill stand bye and watch them starve even for a good made rifle because that will only reinforce the fact that they could have done it when the ban went away.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:58:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Sorry guys, but LMT uses spec pins, the Colt version doesn't. LMT wins this one by a long shot IMHO.



+1

Colt sux.



Colt could sell an exact duplicate down to the fire control pins and you'd still say that.



WRONG. Dont you put words in my mouth........ You dont know me, and you dont know what I would and would not support.... so go jump in a freaking lake! (I'd like to say stronger words... but dont want to diminish my arguments are break CoC.... but you deserve it!)

If Colt made a more to spec rifle, and stopped doing all the steel sear blocks, bastard pin sizes.... and was comperable to a Bushmaster/LMT spec.... and close (doesn't have to be the low cost leader... I actually understand Colt puts a lot of quality in their rifles.....) then I would absolutely support them, and their hardware. YOU sir... owe me an apology. Your hatred for the Anti-colt crowd is blinding your judgement.


It's gone way beyond comparing rifles with you and, unfortunately, that disease spreads to the new people who come to this site. It's a shame it's so hard to get good information here anymore.


Yes it is..... yes it is.



I don't owe you anything. You're spreading B.S. pure and simple. For example, Colt hasn't used a steel sear block in years. On the other hand, Bushmaster uses non-standard buffer tubes and sight systems so they are hardly an alternative for accuracy. LMT, however, is making fine products and, if they produce a complete rifle, will definitely bring a comparable piece to the market.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:00:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By model927:
Shit I forgot M4 handguards and the side sling attachment and no front swivel and brad as far as the FSB the height was changed by colt a few years ago and I like to go by the company that first made M4s for seals and SF and that was Bushmaster.Colt only changed dimensions to ther FSB and carry handle to make their rifle so no one can copy it as far as feed ramps I thought those were originally done by colt because of QC problems on some of the rifles that first went to war in afghanistan so I realy dont think the feedramps function holds much water as it was originally done to fix a design flaw any way The closest to spec rifle out the door would be as I stted before along with the other few things I forgot.What was true 13 years ago is true tiday"Colt clearly does not have a monopoly on the quality production of the AR15/M16 the original suplied Bushies went to war with out the feedramps so I guess M4 type rifles work well as long as they are machined right.



Wow...you've got some serious remedial homework to do. That's exactly the kind of misinformation I was talking about. I really wish people would get the facts before opening their mouths.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:02:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:

Originally Posted By model927:
Shit I forgot M4 handguards and the side sling attachment and no front swivel and brad as far as the FSB the height was changed by colt a few years ago and I like to go by the company that first made M4s for seals and SF and that was Bushmaster.Colt only changed dimensions to ther FSB and carry handle to make their rifle so no one can copy it as far as feed ramps I thought those were originally done by colt because of QC problems on some of the rifles that first went to war in afghanistan so I realy dont think the feedramps function holds much water as it was originally done to fix a design flaw any way The closest to spec rifle out the door would be as I stted before along with the other few things I forgot.What was true 13 years ago is true tiday"Colt clearly does not have a monopoly on the quality production of the AR15/M16 the original suplied Bushies went to war with out the feedramps so I guess M4 type rifles work well as long as they are machined right.



Wow...you've got some serious remedial homework to do. That's exactly the kind of misinformation I was talking about. I really wish people would get the facts before opening their mouths.



What mis-information is there?
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:03:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 5:06:23 PM EST by model927]
What ever thats why ther model needs feed ramps,they werent needed 30 years ago and as far as mis information most crap that comes out of your mouth is Biased colt bull shit,try being a bit objective hell your like the CBS of AR.com.If colt was the last say on M16s then Im sure FN wouldnt be making A4 full sizes for the Marines right,please thats all colt has is the M4 contract and with out that they are sunk.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:04:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Wow...you've got some serious remedial homework to do. That's exactly the kind of misinformation I was talking about. I really wish people would get the facts before opening their mouths.



elitist.
e·lit·ism or é·lit·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-ltzm, -l-)
n.
The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.



All hail master Bradd_D... the Colt worshipping master has spoken.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:04:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By M11293:

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:

Originally Posted By model927:
Shit I forgot M4 handguards and the side sling attachment and no front swivel and brad as far as the FSB the height was changed by colt a few years ago and I like to go by the company that first made M4s for seals and SF and that was Bushmaster.Colt only changed dimensions to ther FSB and carry handle to make their rifle so no one can copy it as far as feed ramps I thought those were originally done by colt because of QC problems on some of the rifles that first went to war in afghanistan so I realy dont think the feedramps function holds much water as it was originally done to fix a design flaw any way The closest to spec rifle out the door would be as I stted before along with the other few things I forgot.What was true 13 years ago is true tiday"Colt clearly does not have a monopoly on the quality production of the AR15/M16 the original suplied Bushies went to war with out the feedramps so I guess M4 type rifles work well as long as they are machined right.



Wow...you've got some serious remedial homework to do. That's exactly the kind of misinformation I was talking about. I really wish people would get the facts before opening their mouths.



What mis-information is there?



Just read the entire post from beginning to end and that will pretty well cover it.
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