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Posted: 9/26/2004 9:36:37 PM EDT
[#1]
Colt has a different spec of buffer tube, and a higher front sight base. Both can be ordered seperately. Use an LMT upper and barrel. Colt handguards are inferior to most other M4 handguards. LMT uppers have the proper cuts. I believe that Colt also has a thicker upper reciever. I suggest you buy a DSA/LMT or Lauer lower, the stock of your choice, VLTOR and LMT also use the Colt spec tube, and put a genuine Colt 14.5 upper on it. I know that Wes at MSTN used to carry them, I don't know if he does anymore.
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Posted: 9/26/2004 9:41:20 PM EDT
[#2]
This is what you want. Get the 16 inch barrel and gain velocity while keeping the A2 Flash hider.
You don't need M4 feedramps, trust me on this. Don't worry about buffer tube length, it isn't an issue. This carbine has the M4 profile (light under handguards) and the launcher step on the barrel. If you decide to go with the 14.5 inch barrel, you'll need a Phantom or Vortex permanently attached. www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/bcwa3f16m4.asp HS1 |
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Posted: 9/26/2004 9:57:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Bushmaster is over priced, 16 inches is not to spec, and phantom, and vortexes are not to spec, if I can't get an A2 then I need to know what flash suppressor I can use that looks most like the A2, or alternativly how I can jery rig the A2 to the right length, this isn't ment as an insult or anything, I'm just a stickler about authenticity, I don't particularly care if I use Bshmaster but there complete rifles are out of my price range, idealy my budget for this is $800 or less prefferably below $500 but I know thats next to impossible, I wouldn't even mind Colt parts but they have to have a decent price, and unless I can get one witht he correct pin sizes there recievers are out, let me just premtively say that this thread is not meant to start a war like that other thread I just want to build the most correct rifle possible for the lowest possible price, I don't care if I buy a complete rifle or have to build it myself with no 2 parts comeing from the same manufacturor....
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Posted: 9/26/2004 10:03:31 PM EDT
[#4]
I see that you want to get as close as possible.
If it were i who were doing the build, i would go ahead and get the 16 inch. Since you seem set on the 14.5, get the vortex. I would seriously reconsider the 14.5 inch barrel. having the 16 inch allows you to keep other options open, such as a sound suppressor. |
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Posted: 9/26/2004 10:12:20 PM EDT
[#5]
You wont find colt parts at a decent price,you want close get a Bushmaster A3 carbine ,flatop with M4 handguards a 1/7 barrel and just add a colt stock...feedramps dont worry about them it was a design change to make colt rifles run better it dosent mean another manufacturer needs them.People say it was for better reliability in cold I say it was to cure a manufacturing short coming from colt get a Bushy 1/7 change out the handguards and stock and your all set.
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Posted: 9/26/2004 10:22:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Unforunetly Michigan also won't allow suppressors, so seeing as I am not planning on changing out the flash suppressor all the time just for shits and giggles I don't see a problem with the 14.5 if this were a free state then yes I'de consider the longer barrel, or permenantly attaching the suppressor but since it's not....
Theres also the issue of the bayonet sure I won't likely have to use it going for authenticity I still want it to fit and it won't on the longer barrel, not without a special bayoney, or an adapter.... |
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Posted: 9/26/2004 10:26:04 PM EDT
[#7]
I’m building a M4 also and have the same dilemma about the barrel selection and flash hiders.
The only thing that is true military type is the A2. The A2 is too short and won’t get you to 16-inches. The other flash hiders mentioned don’t have a purpose other than hiding the flash and aren’t used by the military. Given this dilemma, I am shipping my 14.5-inch M4 upper off to Gemtech to have their Bi-Lock permanently attached. I know it isn’t military, but it does serve a purpose beyond being something someone came up with to get to 16-inches. I don’t have an M4-96D yet, but would like to get one sometime this next year. |
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Posted: 9/26/2004 10:35:34 PM EDT
[#8]
A long while back I bought a 14.5 LT wt Colt barrel (M16A1 Carbine) from J&T. They put an extended A2 flash suppressor on it for me and pinned and welded it in place. The workmanship was fine and the thing looked damn close. It was just like the A2, only a little longer to make it past the 16" limit. There were some slight differences in appearance, since it did look longer, and machined slightly different (due to cost), but it did the job and was much closer in appearance than a Vortex or Phantom.
I'd call and ask J&T (find them on the Industry forum) and see if they can still do it, just using the M4 barrel (they have LONG since sold out of M16A1 carbine barrels). Alternatively, one of the many gunsmiths who ply the board can do the same thing. All it takes is a tube with a hole in the middle, one end threaded, and slots machined in the top. Just make it the same as an A2, only longer. The one I had from J&T worked with the bayonet fine, and it looked as close as you could get without going SBR. Let us know what you find and for how much. I'm sure there are others who are thinking the same thing. Ross |
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Posted: 9/26/2004 11:29:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Hey, if you just have to have the A2 FS. Get a 16” barrel, send it off, have it cut down to 15” and permanently attach the A2 FS. Only other thing you can do is get the longer A2 looking FS you have already mentioned for a 14.5” barrel. If for some reason you still think Bushmaster is over priced look at Rock River Arms. ADCO carries RRA and can do the barrel work. Kurts Kustom Firearms can also do the barrel work and as you already know, has the long A2 FS. It’s always cheaper to buy off the rack. Both of these options will cost you some money…It’s custom work.
Ray |
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Posted: 9/26/2004 11:55:17 PM EDT
[#10]
Just get a Vortex or Phantom, lots of .mil guys use them and they are the most functional FSs available.
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Posted: 9/27/2004 1:21:49 AM EDT
[#11]
Colt has THE spec buffer tube and their front sight bases are higher bc of the thicker upper. Obviously their upper and FSB is THE spec too as all the BUIS makers work from those numbers. Dunno where you got the handguard info but it's wrong too. Colt is one of the few that uses the proper compression molded handguards with correct double heat shield affixed as they should be. |
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Posted: 9/27/2004 1:23:07 AM EDT
[#12]
I hear that Colt handguards keep more heat in the barrel. I have mostly used single shield and they nver got too hot to handle.
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Posted: 9/27/2004 1:24:24 AM EDT
[#13]
Tweak, I know that Colt is all mil-spec, at least in the upper. I wish I had bought one, instead I got LMT.
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Posted: 9/27/2004 1:45:37 AM EDT
[#14]
Just checking.
 And I wouldn't say "mil spec" because they're not, none of them are. Something akin to "Standard" would be more correct. |
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Posted: 9/27/2004 7:14:20 AM EDT
[#15]
It's my understanding (someone can correct me if I'm wrong) that the Bi-Lock is used on the SOPMOD M4s for when they want to use supressors with them. |
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Posted: 9/27/2004 7:25:02 AM EDT
[#16]
Combat_Jack,
What was wrong with your LMT upper? The impression I got after a month of research was that LMT uppers are properly dimensioned, and aside from differences in quality control standards, are the only accurate non-Colt M4 option. I decided to go with a LMT upper and would like to hear your thoughts on why you regret your purchase. |
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Posted: 9/27/2004 7:46:49 AM EDT
[#17]
Colt's hanguards are crap. People believe they are some how better because they use double heat shields but this is not the case, the plastic they use requires it. |
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Posted: 9/27/2004 4:51:55 PM EDT
[#18]
If you want a 14.5" barrel then stick with it. That is all I have on my M4's (Bushmaster 14.5" chrome lined 1/9 twist) and they shoot great. A 16" M4 barrel just does not look right and it is not to "spec"
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Posted: 9/27/2004 4:54:20 PM EDT
[#19]
Nothing wrong with it, other than it doesn't have military specced thicker upper and talller front sight base. I like to use what the military uses, there is usually a good reason for them to spec something. |
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Posted: 9/27/2004 5:04:53 PM EDT
[#20]
And we all know that you are the foremost authority on all things Colt. BTW, your presence is requested in the Bushmaster M4 thread... |
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Posted: 9/27/2004 5:05:45 PM EDT
[#21]
On the 4 and 6 position stocks, all of our issued M4's that my unit has are 4 position with the new style M4 butt stock. When we switched to the new butt stocks we just got the plastic and kept the original buffer tubes.
On the barrel, I would not have a 16" barrle on any of my rifles. If I were going for an M4 look as close to military as I could get I would get a 16 inch barrel cut down and have an A2 FH permanently attached for an OAL of 16" or get a 14.5 and have a phantom installed, they look kinda close, I think a Gem-Tech Bi-Loc Flash Hider might be a better choice though. All our barrels are 1/7 twist but there is nothing wrong with the 1/9. Get chrome lined, I would not have a non chromed barrel/chamber. On the FSB being a different height, I think this is a bit too anal myself. Just my $0.02 I think LMT makes a decent repro of an actual M4 upper also. They look real close to the real ones. Thats my $0.02
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Posted: 9/27/2004 5:15:26 PM EDT
[#22]
I just put a 6920 upper on my MT6400c lower with an M-4 4 posistion stock and called it close enough. Everything's marked M-4.
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Posted: 9/27/2004 9:15:57 PM EDT
[#23]
OK I'm getting confused first idealy I'm looking for the M-4, not the M-4A1, now from what I've gathered so far is that Colt production M-4's have a differant buffer tube, differant hieght FSB, differant handgaurds, a side mounted forward sling swivil, and feedramp cuts, so is that it?....
Now I don't particularly care which version of the M-4 I build so long as it's identical to a version that has served with the millitary at some point, I would prefer current issue but I'll settle for older stuff so long as the configuration is correct, so do I need all those things or is there any millitary M-4 without that stuff, or is there anything else?.... |
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Posted: 9/27/2004 10:36:18 PM EDT
[#24]
Right.  Hmm, didn't you read in the Bushmaster M4 thread that all the plastic on those supposed USGI BIF M4s had to be replaced with Colt parts?  Post your proof. I've seen other brands melt under full auto and Colt's stand up to 600 rounds of continous FA without even softening. I had to cut 15 or 20 sets off with a Dremel. Post your proof. |
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Posted: 9/27/2004 10:37:37 PM EDT
[#25]
9245,
Why do you want an M4? |
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Posted: 9/28/2004 1:53:05 AM EDT
[#26]
Collector.... Thats why I want it as close to 100% correct as legaly possible, it's bad enough I'm not allowed to ave a working selector switch if I must have a semi, then it better atleast LOOK like the real thing, it took me months just to get the stuff for my A2, and even it's not quite 100% because I have an NM trigger, the only reason I got that was because the AWB was about to expire and wanted something to celebrate with and the match trigger was the only thing the dealer had in, and I couldn't afford to wait, but I will eventually track down the correct trigger (though I will hold on to the match trigger anyway should I want to use it it is a VERY nice trigger....), should I get an M-4 it must be 100% correct, except obviously for the longer flash suppressor, and lack of correct markings, I don't care which version of the M-4 anything from the first one made to present day but it must be correct for that model....
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Posted: 9/28/2004 2:19:02 AM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 9/28/2004 2:24:28 AM EDT
[#28]
  
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Posted: 9/28/2004 2:52:04 AM EDT
[#29]
Colts have non standard pins, and are WAY over priced....
FYI Colt sells there M-16's (on the occasions when FN is unable to fill there contract....), and M-4's to the government for about $500 us mere peasents must pay atleast double that for the "privilage" of owning an out of spec semi-automatic, no standard AR-15 is worth $1000+ dollars $800 is my limit, and even thats high.... |
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Posted: 9/28/2004 12:26:56 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 9/28/2004 8:10:45 PM EDT
[#31]
Yep. I tell ya what, you order 60,000 rifles, all identical and pay half up front. What kind of per unit price do you get then?
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Posted: 9/28/2004 9:10:10 PM EDT
[#32]
I say build a 16" M4 profile with an A2 birdcage... that is as close as you'll get to the look you wnat in Michigan w/ out busting your budget or the law or putting a permanent muzzle device on the end to juice out that 1.5 inches. look here for an upper: cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cat=27 Adam White turned me on to them. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 1:16:28 AM EDT
[#33]
nope the longer barrel is incorrect it's 14.5 or bust.... That and I'm really looking for an M-4, NOT the M-4A1 in other words with standard fixed A2 carry handle, not the flat top.... Besides $500 for an UPPER is to much, I could go to other sources and get the same exact thing for about $300.... The most I'm willing to pay for the upper is $350, I'll go as high as $450 if the bolt and charging handle are included.... It must also have the correct M-4 profile barrel complete with M-203 cutout....
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Posted: 9/29/2004 1:17:35 AM EDT
[#34]
Good luck.
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Posted: 9/29/2004 2:46:31 AM EDT
[#35]
I don't come here for mental exercise kid. Buy whatever you want. Oh, and genius? The M4 is also a flattop, it differs from the M4A1 in the FCG. Maybe you should read more and post less. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 2:51:20 AM EDT
[#36]
M4=Flat top with semi/burst FCG M4A1=Flat top with semi/auto FCG and 4 oz. heavier barrel (added FY01) |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 3:11:49 AM EDT
[#37]
Nope.... The M-4 is essentually just a cutdown M-16A2, however the M-4A1 has a flat top, and is full auto, if you don't believe me check:
www.world.guns.ru/assault/as17-e.htm http://www.world.guns.ru/assault/m4m203.jpg |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 3:16:33 AM EDT
[#38]
Dude, Tweak and I know whats going on, just check it out with some more reliable sources. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 4:18:33 AM EDT
[#39]
My bushy brand new was $760 |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 4:59:45 AM EDT
[#40]
No sir... The M4 is a flat top receiver. I am around these every day, I know this for a fact. The earlier M4A1's had a fixed carrying handle but not the current M4's. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 5:00:40 AM EDT
[#41]
Thank you sir. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 5:49:12 AM EDT
[#42]
I'm building my first AR-15 and currently have parts on order. I'm getting a 14.5" bbl with a perm attached phantom. Does the FH/FA need to be removable to fit a bayonet? It looks like it in this photo:
http://images.snapfish.com/33%3B9597923232%7Ffp63%3Dot%3E232%3A%3D%3B8%3B%3D833%3DXROQDF%3E2323643%3A96878ot1lsi Sorry for the newbie question. Thanks in advance. M.L. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 5:50:29 AM EDT
[#43]
Since, judging by your other post through out this thread, you seem to be such a stickler for authenticity and wanting a …….umm…….”correct” M4, I’m just wondering if you know there is ONLY one M4 and that is the Colt. M4 is a registered trademark of Colt. If you will notice, most other manufactures will say something to the effect of “M4 type”, not “M4”. Colt Challenges Rivals’ Illegal Marketing Practices Just a quote from that article; “Colt is the leading supplier of military and law enforcement weaponry and related products to the U.S. Government and many American allies. It holds a sole source contract to exclusively supply the M4 carbine to all branches of the U.S. military. Only Colt may manufacture an authentic M4 carbine; those made by others are imitations. “ |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 6:22:57 AM EDT
[#44]
Who makes those two rifles and what are the barrel lenghs on both? |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 8:07:03 AM EDT
[#45]
Nope, as long as the OD of the FS fit the IDof the bayo. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 8:25:25 AM EDT
[#46]
spec spec spec.... i'm tired of spec... a2 buttstocks suck for most people and are SPEC! make the gun you want with quality parts... the army doesn't do everything right ya know 
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Posted: 9/29/2004 8:28:22 AM EDT
[#47]
Hey, if I post a picture of my Colt, can you tell me if the stock is to spec?  just kidding!
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Posted: 9/29/2004 8:30:19 AM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 9/29/2004 8:30:24 AM EDT
[#49]
Yep, it's worse than I suspected. |
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Posted: 9/29/2004 9:49:17 AM EDT
[#50]
I makes those two rifles.... The Electric one (EOTech & Surefire) is 14.5". The non Electric one (Trijicon) is 16". |
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