Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Posted: 9/26/2004 8:29:05 PM EST
I'm thinking about eventually building an M-4, and I want it to be as correct as possible but I have a few questions first I see 4 and 6 position stocks which is correct?....

I want a 14.5 inch barrel with 1:7 twist, chrome lined chamber and bore, government profile, and with the cutout for the M-203 for authenticity, I would just register it as an SBR, however Michigan won't allow it so I'll have to perminently attach a muzzle attachment, I want the correct A2 style flash suppressor but I'm not sure if that will be long enough will it, if not whats the most correct looking one available, I've looked at the vortex, and phantom models so offen mentioned but there not even close to correct, so what is I found this http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/catalog/item/29585/5301.htm so hows that, or is there something better If an A2 won't work, and I need something longer I want as short a flash suppressor as possible to make it legal....

I hered something about a differant front sight block for the M-4 is this true, if so whats the differance, and where can I get the M-4 type?....

I also heared about differant length buffer tubes, again whats the difference, and where can I fing the correct one?....

I also heard about differant M-4 feedramp cuts, is this true, and whats the difference, and how do I get the right ones?....

I have already ruled out the Colt model, and there recievers do to how they treat us, ridiculously high prices, and incorrect size pin holes....

Is there anything else differant about the M-4, and if there is where do I get them?....
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 8:36:37 PM EST
Colt has a different spec of buffer tube, and a higher front sight base. Both can be ordered seperately. Use an LMT upper and barrel. Colt handguards are inferior to most other M4 handguards. LMT uppers have the proper cuts. I believe that Colt also has a thicker upper reciever. I suggest you buy a DSA/LMT or Lauer lower, the stock of your choice, VLTOR and LMT also use the Colt spec tube, and put a genuine Colt 14.5 upper on it. I know that Wes at MSTN used to carry them, I don't know if he does anymore.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 8:41:20 PM EST
This is what you want. Get the 16 inch barrel and gain velocity while keeping the A2 Flash hider.
You don't need M4 feedramps, trust me on this. Don't worry about buffer tube length, it isn't an issue.
This carbine has the M4 profile (light under handguards) and the launcher step on the barrel.

If you decide to go with the 14.5 inch barrel, you'll need a Phantom or Vortex permanently attached.

www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/bcwa3f16m4.asp

HS1
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 8:57:14 PM EST
Bushmaster is over priced, 16 inches is not to spec, and phantom, and vortexes are not to spec, if I can't get an A2 then I need to know what flash suppressor I can use that looks most like the A2, or alternativly how I can jery rig the A2 to the right length, this isn't ment as an insult or anything, I'm just a stickler about authenticity, I don't particularly care if I use Bshmaster but there complete rifles are out of my price range, idealy my budget for this is $800 or less prefferably below $500 but I know thats next to impossible, I wouldn't even mind Colt parts but they have to have a decent price, and unless I can get one witht he correct pin sizes there recievers are out, let me just premtively say that this thread is not meant to start a war like that other thread I just want to build the most correct rifle possible for the lowest possible price, I don't care if I buy a complete rifle or have to build it myself with no 2 parts comeing from the same manufacturor....
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 9:03:31 PM EST
I see that you want to get as close as possible.


If it were i who were doing the build, i would go ahead and get the 16 inch.

Since you seem set on the 14.5, get the vortex.

I would seriously reconsider the 14.5 inch barrel.


having the 16 inch allows you to keep other options open, such as a sound suppressor.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 9:12:20 PM EST
You wont find colt parts at a decent price,you want close get a Bushmaster A3 carbine ,flatop with M4 handguards a 1/7 barrel and just add a colt stock...feedramps dont worry about them it was a design change to make colt rifles run better it dosent mean another manufacturer needs them.People say it was for better reliability in cold I say it was to cure a manufacturing short coming from colt get a Bushy 1/7 change out the handguards and stock and your all set.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 9:22:47 PM EST
Unforunetly Michigan also won't allow suppressors, so seeing as I am not planning on changing out the flash suppressor all the time just for shits and giggles I don't see a problem with the 14.5 if this were a free state then yes I'de consider the longer barrel, or permenantly attaching the suppressor but since it's not....

Theres also the issue of the bayonet sure I won't likely have to use it going for authenticity I still want it to fit and it won't on the longer barrel, not without a special bayoney, or an adapter....
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 9:26:04 PM EST
I’m building a M4 also and have the same dilemma about the barrel selection and flash hiders.

The only thing that is true military type is the A2. The A2 is too short and won’t get you to 16-inches. The other flash hiders mentioned don’t have a purpose other than hiding the flash and aren’t used by the military.

Given this dilemma, I am shipping my 14.5-inch M4 upper off to Gemtech to have their Bi-Lock permanently attached. I know it isn’t military, but it does serve a purpose beyond being something someone came up with to get to 16-inches.

I don’t have an M4-96D yet, but would like to get one sometime this next year.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 9:35:34 PM EST
A long while back I bought a 14.5 LT wt Colt barrel (M16A1 Carbine) from J&T. They put an extended A2 flash suppressor on it for me and pinned and welded it in place. The workmanship was fine and the thing looked damn close. It was just like the A2, only a little longer to make it past the 16" limit. There were some slight differences in appearance, since it did look longer, and machined slightly different (due to cost), but it did the job and was much closer in appearance than a Vortex or Phantom.

I'd call and ask J&T (find them on the Industry forum) and see if they can still do it, just using the M4 barrel (they have LONG since sold out of M16A1 carbine barrels). Alternatively, one of the many gunsmiths who ply the board can do the same thing. All it takes is a tube with a hole in the middle, one end threaded, and slots machined in the top. Just make it the same as an A2, only longer.

The one I had from J&T worked with the bayonet fine, and it looked as close as you could get without going SBR.

Let us know what you find and for how much. I'm sure there are others who are thinking the same thing.

Ross
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 10:29:17 PM EST
Hey, if you just have to have the A2 FS. Get a 16” barrel, send it off, have it cut down to 15” and permanently attach the A2 FS. Only other thing you can do is get the longer A2 looking FS you have already mentioned for a 14.5” barrel. If for some reason you still think Bushmaster is over priced look at Rock River Arms. ADCO carries RRA and can do the barrel work. Kurts Kustom Firearms can also do the barrel work and as you already know, has the long A2 FS. It’s always cheaper to buy off the rack. Both of these options will cost you some money…It’s custom work.

Ray
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 10:55:17 PM EST
Just get a Vortex or Phantom, lots of .mil guys use them and they are the most functional FSs available.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 12:21:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 12:23:07 AM EST
I hear that Colt handguards keep more heat in the barrel. I have mostly used single shield and they nver got too hot to handle.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 12:24:24 AM EST
Tweak, I know that Colt is all mil-spec, at least in the upper. I wish I had bought one, instead I got LMT.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 12:45:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 6:14:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By ch139:Given this dilemma, I am shipping my 14.5-inch M4 upper off to Gemtech to have their Bi-Lock permanently attached. I know it isn’t military


It's my understanding (someone can correct me if I'm wrong) that the Bi-Lock is used on the SOPMOD M4s for when they want to use supressors with them.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 6:25:02 AM EST
Combat_Jack,

What was wrong with your LMT upper? The impression I got after a month of research was that LMT uppers are properly dimensioned, and aside from differences in quality control standards, are the only accurate non-Colt M4 option. I decided to go with a LMT upper and would like to hear your thoughts on why you regret your purchase.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 6:46:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tweak:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Colt has a different spec of buffer tube, and a higher front sight base. [snip] Colt handguards are inferior to most other M4 handguards. I believe that Colt also has a thicker upper reciever.





Dunno where you got the handguard info but it's wrong too. Colt is one of the few that uses the proper compression molded handguards with correct double heat shield affixed as they should be.



Colt's hanguards are crap. People believe they are some how better because they use double heat shields but this is not the case, the plastic they use requires it.

Link Posted: 9/27/2004 3:51:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 3:53:05 PM EST by rockytherotty]
If you want a 14.5" barrel then stick with it. That is all I have on my M4's (Bushmaster 14.5" chrome lined 1/9 twist) and they shoot great. A 16" M4 barrel just does not look right and it is not to "spec"
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 3:54:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By Vinh:
Combat_Jack,

What was wrong with your LMT upper? The impression I got after a month of research was that LMT uppers are properly dimensioned, and aside from differences in quality control standards, are the only accurate non-Colt M4 option. I decided to go with a LMT upper and would like to hear your thoughts on why you regret your purchase.



Nothing wrong with it, other than it doesn't have military specced thicker upper and talller front sight base. I like to use what the military uses, there is usually a good reason for them to spec something.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:04:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By model927:
People say it was for better reliability in cold I say it was to cure a manufacturing short coming from colt



And we all know that you are the foremost authority on all things Colt.

BTW, your presence is requested in the Bushmaster M4 thread...
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:05:45 PM EST
On the 4 and 6 position stocks, all of our issued M4's that my unit has are 4 position with the new style M4 butt stock. When we switched to the new butt stocks we just got the plastic and kept the original buffer tubes.

On the barrel, I would not have a 16" barrle on any of my rifles. If I were going for an M4 look as close to military as I could get I would get a 16 inch barrel cut down and have an A2 FH permanently attached for an OAL of 16" or get a 14.5 and have a phantom installed, they look kinda close, I think a Gem-Tech Bi-Loc Flash Hider might be a better choice though. All our barrels are 1/7 twist but there is nothing wrong with the 1/9. Get chrome lined, I would not have a non chromed barrel/chamber.

On the FSB being a different height, I think this is a bit too anal myself. Just my $0.02

I think LMT makes a decent repro of an actual M4 upper also. They look real close to the real ones. Thats my $0.02
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:15:26 PM EST
I just put a 6920 upper on my MT6400c lower with an M-4 4 posistion stock and called it close enough. Everything's marked M-4.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 8:15:57 PM EST
OK I'm getting confused first idealy I'm looking for the M-4, not the M-4A1, now from what I've gathered so far is that Colt production M-4's have a differant buffer tube, differant hieght FSB, differant handgaurds, a side mounted forward sling swivil, and feedramp cuts, so is that it?....

Now I don't particularly care which version of the M-4 I build so long as it's identical to a version that has served with the millitary at some point, I would prefer current issue but I'll settle for older stuff so long as the configuration is correct, so do I need all those things or is there any millitary M-4 without that stuff, or is there anything else?....
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:36:18 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 9:37:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:53:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 12:54:06 AM EST by 9245]
Collector.... Thats why I want it as close to 100% correct as legaly possible, it's bad enough I'm not allowed to ave a working selector switch if I must have a semi, then it better atleast LOOK like the real thing, it took me months just to get the stuff for my A2, and even it's not quite 100% because I have an NM trigger, the only reason I got that was because the AWB was about to expire and wanted something to celebrate with and the match trigger was the only thing the dealer had in, and I couldn't afford to wait, but I will eventually track down the correct trigger (though I will hold on to the match trigger anyway should I want to use it it is a VERY nice trigger....), should I get an M-4 it must be 100% correct, except obviously for the longer flash suppressor, and lack of correct markings, I don't care which version of the M-4 anything from the first one made to present day but it must be correct for that model....
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:19:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 1:24:32 AM EST by Tweak]
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:24:28 AM EST






Link Posted: 9/28/2004 1:52:04 AM EST
Colts have non standard pins, and are WAY over priced....

FYI Colt sells there M-16's (on the occasions when FN is unable to fill there contract....), and M-4's to the government for about $500 us mere peasents must pay atleast double that for the "privilage" of owning an out of spec semi-automatic, no standard AR-15 is worth $1000+ dollars $800 is my limit, and even thats high....
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:26:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 11:28:24 AM EST by El_Roto]
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:10:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 8:10:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 8:10:59 PM EST by GackMan]

Originally Posted By 9245:
$800 is my limit, and even thats high....



I say build a 16" M4 profile with an A2 birdcage... that is as close as you'll get to the look you wnat in Michigan w/ out busting your budget or the law or putting a permanent muzzle device on the end to juice out that 1.5 inches.

look here for an upper: cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cat=27

Adam White turned me on to them.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 12:16:28 AM EST
nope the longer barrel is incorrect it's 14.5 or bust.... That and I'm really looking for an M-4, NOT the M-4A1 in other words with standard fixed A2 carry handle, not the flat top.... Besides $500 for an UPPER is to much, I could go to other sources and get the same exact thing for about $300.... The most I'm willing to pay for the upper is $350, I'll go as high as $450 if the bolt and charging handle are included.... It must also have the correct M-4 profile barrel complete with M-203 cutout....
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 12:17:35 AM EST
Good luck.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 1:46:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 1:51:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By 9245:
nope the longer barrel is incorrect it's 14.5 or bust.... That and I'm really looking for an M-4, NOT the M-4A1 in other words with standard fixed A2 carry handle, not the flat top.... Besides $500 for an UPPER is to much, I could go to other sources and get the same exact thing for about $300.... The most I'm willing to pay for the upper is $350, I'll go as high as $450 if the bolt and charging handle are included.... It must also have the correct M-4 profile barrel complete with M-203 cutout....



M4=Flat top with semi/burst FCG
M4A1=Flat top with semi/auto FCG and 4 oz. heavier barrel (added FY01)
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 2:11:49 AM EST
Nope.... The M-4 is essentually just a cutdown M-16A2, however the M-4A1 has a flat top, and is full auto, if you don't believe me check:

www.world.guns.ru/assault/as17-e.htm

http://www.world.guns.ru/assault/m4m203.jpg
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 2:16:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By 9245:
Nope.... The M-4 is essentually just a cutdown M-16A2, however the M-4A1 has a flat top, and is full auto, if you don't believe me check:

www.world.guns.ru/assault/as17-e.htm

www.world.guns.ru/assault/m4m203.jpg



Dude, Tweak and I know whats going on, just check it out with some more reliable sources.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 3:18:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By 9245:
idealy my budget for this is $800 or less prefferably below $500 but I know thats next to impossible....



My bushy brand new was $760
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 3:59:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By 9245:
Nope.... The M-4 is essentually just a cutdown M-16A2, however the M-4A1 has a flat top, and is full auto, if you don't believe me check:

www.world.guns.ru/assault/as17-e.htm

www.world.guns.ru/assault/m4m203.jpg



No sir... The M4 is a flat top receiver. I am around these every day, I know this for a fact. The earlier M4A1's had a fixed carrying handle but not the current M4's.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 4:00:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By DM1975:

Originally Posted By 9245:
Nope.... The M-4 is essentually just a cutdown M-16A2, however the M-4A1 has a flat top, and is full auto, if you don't believe me check:

www.world.guns.ru/assault/as17-e.htm

www.world.guns.ru/assault/m4m203.jpg



No sir... The M4 is a flat top receiver. I am around these every day, I know this for a fact. The earlier M4A1's had a fixed carrying handle but not the current M4's.



Thank you sir.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 4:49:12 AM EST
I'm building my first AR-15 and currently have parts on order. I'm getting a 14.5" bbl with a perm attached phantom. Does the FH/FA need to be removable to fit a bayonet? It looks like it in this photo:
htt­p://images.snapfish.com/33%3B9597923232%7Ffp63%3Dot%3E232%3A%3D%3B8%3­B%3D833%3DXROQDF%3E2323643%3A96878ot1lsi

Sorry for the newbie question.

Thanks in advance.

M.L.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 4:50:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By 9245:
Colts have non standard pins, and are WAY over priced....



Since, judging by your other post through out this thread, you seem to be such a stickler for authenticity and wanting a …….umm…….”correct” M4, I’m just wondering if you know there is ONLY one M4 and that is the Colt. M4 is a registered trademark of Colt. If you will notice, most other manufactures will say something to the effect of “M4 type”, not “M4”.


Colt Challenges Rivals’ Illegal Marketing Practices


Just a quote from that article; “Colt is the leading supplier of military and law enforcement weaponry and related products to the U.S. Government and many American allies. It holds a sole source contract to exclusively supply the M4 carbine to all branches of the U.S. military. Only Colt may manufacture an authentic M4 carbine; those made by others are imitations. “

Link Posted: 9/29/2004 5:22:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 7:07:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 7:25:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By 9245:
Bushmaster is over priced, 16 inches is not to spec, and phantom, and vortexes are not to spec, if I can't get an A2 then I need to know what flash suppressor I can use that looks most like the A2, or alternativly how I can jery rig the A2 to the right length, this isn't ment as an insult or anything, I'm just a stickler about authenticity, I don't particularly care if I use Bshmaster but there complete rifles are out of my price range, idealy my budget for this is $800 or less prefferably below $500 but I know thats next to impossible, I wouldn't even mind Colt parts but they have to have a decent price, and unless I can get one witht he correct pin sizes there recievers are out, let me just premtively say that this thread is not meant to start a war like that other thread I just want to build the most correct rifle possible for the lowest possible price, I don't care if I buy a complete rifle or have to build it myself with no 2 parts comeing from the same manufacturor....



spec spec spec.... i'm tired of spec... a2 buttstocks suck for most people and are SPEC! make the gun you want with quality parts... the army doesn't do everything right ya know
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 7:28:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By jar3ds:
spec spec spec.... i'm tired of spec... a2 buttstocks suck for most people and are SPEC! make the gun you want with quality parts... the army doesn't do everything right ya know



Hey, if I post a picture of my Colt, can you tell me if the stock is to spec? just kidding!
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 7:30:19 AM EST
True dat! Hey do you if a bayonet will fit nicely on the phantom with a 14.5 barrel?
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 7:30:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 8:49:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mattdawg:

Originally Posted By CavVet:
images.snapfish.com/33%3B9597923232%7Ffp63%3Dot%3E232%3A%3D%3B8%3­B%3D833%3DXROQDF%3E2323643%3A96878ot1lsi



images.snapfish.com/33%3B9597923232%7Ffp63%3Dot%3E232%3A%3D%3B8%3­B%3D833%3DXROQDF%3E2323643%3A96882ot1lsi




Who makes those two rifles and what are the barrel lenghs on both?



I makes those two rifles....

The Electric one (EOTech & Surefire) is 14.5".

The non Electric one (Trijicon) is 16".

Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Top Top