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Posted: 12/23/2003 2:28:38 PM EDT
Here's a couple of pics of the Knight's M 14 RAS that had so much interest on the forums a while back. Show's they've forward mounted an EOTech on it.

Link Posted: 12/23/2003 2:58:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2003 3:05:37 PM EDT by Lumpy196]

The KAC RAS is cool, but pricey.

Link Posted: 12/23/2003 3:48:58 PM EDT
I was pretty much counting on you to be the initial reply.

Is that one you pic'd yours? I'm going to pick one up for myself after the holidays are out of the way.

The only question I have is will the rails that run along the sides interfere with a oversized NM stock?
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 3:58:22 PM EDT
Actually, it belongs to someone I was T&E'ing it for, so its going back soon.

It works with GI stocks only.  The siderail prevent the use of oversized stocks without extensive modification.

For the price, you'd actually be better sticking with a standard ARMS scope mount and bolting your own side rail sections to a fiberglass stock.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 4:15:56 PM EDT
I don't really go in for do it yourself bolt on jobs. KAC it is for me. Thanks for the info on the compatibility, appreciate it.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 4:19:15 PM EDT
Depending on the reciever you have you may have to do some checking on the pitch of the threading on your reciever's side hole.  Springfield and GI M14 are apparently a little different.
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 12:29:26 AM EDT
Ok, thanks again. Right now I've got a Brookfield Precision base on the gun with no problems so it should surely be on the positive side with this. The one I have is several years old and the rest of it's all GI pretty much. Offhand do you know if it's the newer guns with this discrepancy or perhaps it's been there all along off and on?
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 12:30:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2003 12:30:50 AM EDT by Lumpy196]
That I dont know.  My M1A is a 93 vintage pre-ban.

The threads were finer than what the screw that came with the RAS had.
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 4:24:21 AM EDT
I'm pretty sure this blocks the iron sights.

-- Chuck
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 4:49:32 AM EDT
The thread on the left side of the reciever on the old GI is 12-32. I have no idea what the newer thread would be.
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 5:31:13 AM EDT
me want....

How much do they run ?
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 5:55:51 AM EDT
Here ya go.... MSTN should have them


Link Posted: 12/24/2003 7:21:20 AM EDT
No joy at mstn.
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 8:37:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 8:50:37 AM EDT
Who's Joy?

I always deal with Wes or Paul.

Link Posted: 12/24/2003 9:29:16 AM EDT
[b]No Joy:[/b] I don't see the bandit; opposite of "Tally".

Fighter Pilot jargon...The "bandit" in this case being an M14 RAS , they didn't have it listed.

If ya got one let me know how much it is [:)]
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 9:48:17 AM EDT
MSTN has LOTS of things that aren't listed on their website. I'm guessing they have such a large number of things coming into and going out of the place they don't have time to update what all they carry.

However if you mail them you'll likely get a reply back within 24. And I have seen Wes post in the past that they were expecting the M 14 RAS in shortly.
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 10:59:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ANGST:
[b]No Joy:[/b] I don't see the bandit; opposite of "Tally".

Fighter Pilot jargon...The "bandit" in this case being an M14 RAS , they didn't have it listed.

If ya got one let me know how much it is [:)]
View Quote

yea..yea.. that was a poor attempt at humor I guess.

Link Posted: 12/24/2003 6:22:03 PM EDT

[b]"December 23, 2003

Sniper’s skills in demand in Iraq

By Matthew Cox

Army Times Staff writer

SAMARRA, Iraq — The sun was sinking at the desert’s edge when Sgt. Randall Davis spotted his target, an armed Iraqi on a rooftop about 300 meters away. “It was just getting dark. I saw a guy step in front of the light,” said the 25-year-old sniper.

Davis knew he was watching another sniper by the way the man stepped back into the shadows and crept along the roofline to spy down on a squad from his unit — B Company, 5th Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment. “Most people, when they get on a roof, will just move around and do what they’ve got to do,” he said in a recent interview here. “But this guy was moving slowly, trying to have smooth motions, trying to stay in the shadows.”

From his own rooftop position, Davis tracked him with his favorite weapon — an M-14 rifle equipped with a special optic sight that has crosshairs and a red aiming dot. He didn’t have to wait long before the enemy sniper made his second mistake. “He silhouetted his rifle from the waist up, trying to look over at the guys in the courtyard,” Davis said. His M-14 spoke once.

“I hit him in the chest. He fell back. His rifle flew out of his hands,” Davis said. “You could see blood spatter on the wall behind where he was standing.” Confirmed kill, his eighth — which includes seven enemies picked off in one day.

The deadly Dec. 18 encounter took place on the second night of Operation Ivy Blizzard, a joint combat operation aimed at clearing guerrillas from this city of 250,000, a nest of insurgent activity in the Sunni Triangle.

The operation is being carried out by the 5-20’s parent unit, Fort Lewis, Wash.-based 3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division (SBCT), and 3rd Brigade, 4th Infantry Division, out of Fort Carson, Colo. Snipers had attacked the 5-20 three days before the rooftop encounter.

“We had been engaged by snipers in here before, so I was hoping it was the same guy,” the Nashville, Tenn., native said. “It’s kind of a professional insult to get shot at by another sniper.” He seems to take his job in stride, though he admits he’s been surprised at how busy he’s been since he arrived here two weeks ago.

New urban-warfare threat

In April 2001 the Army began teaching urban sniper techniques as part of its five-week sniper course at Fort Benning, Ga. Army leaders recognized the emerging threat and realized that traditional sniper techniques of lying prone and stalking prey in the open would not be enough in a world where terrorists hit and run from inside city buildings and busy streets.

Army Sniper School’s urban training course includes lessons on concealment, shooting positions and more. The Army also added more snipers to field units as part of its ongoing transformation to a more mobile and lethal force.

The leaders of the Stryker brigade — the new wheeled combat vehicle that is part of the transformation — say their snipers have proven ideal for limiting collateral damage and civilian casualties in this guerrilla-style fight. “These guys are invaluable to our mission,” said B Company commander Capt. Damien Mason, describing how two-man sniper teams are deployed to provide precision fire against hit-and-run shooters or for counter-sniper work. “[Enemy] snipers have been a problem in this town,” he said.

The enemy sniper Davis took out Dec. 18 was by no means his first kill here. In the handful of skirmishes since mid December, Davis has been credited with eight confirmed kills and two “probables,” a count no soldier in the brigade has come close to matching.

Davis sees his job as vital to saving the lives of his own troops and takes no pleasure in the killing. “That’s one of those things you accept when you take the job,” he said.

Davis has been working in two-man sniper teams for two years. He’s a spotter and mentor for his less-experienced sniper teammate, Spc. Chris Wilson. In many cases, the situation dictates who takes the shot. “The roles switch up constantly between spotter and shooter,” Davis said. Davis, though, has done most of the shooting since his unit began operating in Samarra on Dec. 14.

It wasn’t long after arriving that he found himself with an Iraqi in his sights and his finger on the trigger. One night, he and Davis were taking sporadic fire in their position when two Iraqis burst out of a mosque with AK-47 rifles. “I shot the trail one,” he said, describing how the individual managed to crawl away, so he was listed as a probable kill. “He was hurt pretty bad.”

The next day, B Company walked into an ambush designed to draw them into the city. Before the day was over, Davis, armed with an M-4 carbine and an all-purpose optic, would be responsible for seven of the 11 enemy kills.

Most of the shots he took were while on the move at distances of 100 to 300 meters — longer than a football field, but certainly not the greatest distance from which he has hit his human target. On Dec. 20, he killed another sniper with one shot from an XM107 .50 caliber sniper rifle at a distance of 750 meters.

Davis admits he never thought he’d be this busy before deploying to Iraq. “This is the first time I have been in ever been in a combat situation,” he said. “Really it was just like targets down range – you just hit your target and acquire your next target. I thought I’d have a harder time shooting. Shooting someone is pretty unnatural.”

Early interest in sniper work

Davis is described by B Company 1st Sgt. Ray Hernandez as one of the best noncommissioned officers in the unit. “He’s very professional — one of those NCOs where you tell him to do a job, and he does it,” said Hernandez, who is from El Paso, Texas. Mason, the B Company commander, agreed. “He will make things happen,” said the 29-year-old from Kihei, Hawaii. “He will get the mission done no matter what.”

Davis said the toughest part of the deployment is that it means a year away from his wife and six-year-old son. Nevertheless, serving in a war zone is the opportunity to fulfill a dream he’s had since he was a kid. “It’s one of those things I wanted to do since I was 12,” he said, describing how reading about famous snipers was a favorite pastime.

Legendary snipers became his role models. Snipers such as Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock, a Marine sniper in Vietnam with 98 confirmed kills, Sgt. 1st Class. Randy Shugart and Master Sgt. Gary Gordon, two Delta Force snipers, who died in Somalia in 1993 trying to rescue a downed crew of a MH-60 Black Hawk during the battle of Mogadishu. “What those guys did was amazing,” he said.

Born with 20/10 vision, Davis said he has been shooting and hunting as long as he can remember. His favorite deer gun was a Remington Model 700 bolt-action rifle in .308 caliber — the civilian version of the Army’s M-24 sniper rifle. “I kind of grew up with the rifle,” he said.

The interests of his youth made it easy for Davis to transition into a job he describes as a more humane way of fighting an enemy that can easily blend in with harmless civilians.

“I just thought it was a very smart way to fight a war — very lethal, very precise,” he said. “This way I know I’m not shooting civilians. Every shot you take, you know exactly where the bullet is going.” [/b]
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 6:33:58 PM EDT
20/10 vision?!  Now those are some good eyes!  

Cool article Lumpy.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 1:01:02 PM EDT
That was a great article.  I love reading about our guys taking care of business.  Keep 'em coming!

Link Posted: 12/26/2003 9:21:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2003 9:22:17 AM EDT by 8200rpm]
Originally Posted By Chuck:
[b]I'm pretty sure this blocks the iron sights.

-- Chuck[/b]
View Quote

What are [b]iron sights[/b] for?

Link Posted: 12/26/2003 10:43:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chuck:
I'm pretty sure this blocks the iron sights.

-- Chuck
View Quote

The Eotech does.

The RAS on its own doesnt.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 10:48:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 3:58:59 AM EDT
I guess that you would have to remove any other mount that you have on your rifle.  I can't tell from the pics, but does it come with a new stripper guide mount piece in order to mount a scope traditionally?  There's obviously something for that scope to mount to in the pic.
Thanks for the great pics and that little article.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 5:36:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By phobia:
I guess that you would have to remove any other mount that you have on your rifle.  I can't tell from the pics, but does it come with a new stripper guide mount piece in order to mount a scope traditionally?  There's obviously something for that scope to mount to in the pic.
Thanks for the great pics and that little article.
View Quote

The M14 RAS comes with a short block of Picatinny Rail that one can electively installed in  place of the 14's Charger Guide.  In other words, it has no connection with the RAS itself.
I like this rear block because if one then mounts a scope, all you need then are the rings.  So this opens up the space needed for the rifle to eject cases or loaded rounds properly vs the older style mounts that tended to close in on this space in an effort to get the scope down as low as possible since the stock was never designed with a high mouunted scope in mind.
The rear portion of the top RAS rail is very solid given the way it attaches and then is clamped to the rear of the barrel (chamber) just in front of the receiver.
I guess we (KAC) should consider pricing the M14 RAS two ways, so the cost of the Rear Block can be factored out of the equation for shooters who are not considering mounting a scope over the receiver.
By the way, the issue on the thread size re: the M14 receiver, any one with a screw that doesn't seem to be quite right needs to call Jay at (772) 778-3700 ext. 230 and have a new one mailed to them.
We will also have a new run of M14 RAS completed this week.  These will have two rows of ventilation slots along either side of the top rail for improved cooling per the recommendation of some users.  This gives the user in the desert the option of taping over the slots if sand & dust becomes a problem, or leaving them open for increased air flow when needed.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 5:46:28 AM EDT
I'm more interested in that Vortex mounted on the end of that smoke pole!  Oh ya!  I need to get my bbl threaded!
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 2:34:19 PM EDT
Thanks for your input coldblue, that eases my mind significantly on that one aspect of thread differences.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 4:19:45 PM EDT
At first I didnt see many applications for this beyond military use, but the more Ive played with it, the more Im seeing the adaptability built into it.  The ventilation is a good thing to hear.  The forearm is rock solid.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 10:42:57 PM EDT
I'm with you. All my serious guns have RAS's on them save for this one nagging one.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 12:40:44 PM EDT
You know they make the Vortex for the M14/M1A.


This with one of the KMC RAS makes me smile.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 1:05:17 PM EDT
As a matter of fact...My M1A has a Vortex on it. The USGI FH is very good, but the Smith product is phenomenal in it's performance. Muzzle flash to the naked eye is about like a lighter flint flicking or cigarette ashes sparking...Maybe even somewhat less.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 4:44:03 PM EDT
Nah, I'm talking about putting one on my PSS system.  Muuwaaahhhh
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 9:56:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TNRonin:
Nah, I'm talking about putting one on my PSS system.  Muuwaaahhhh
View Quote

I'm there man, I'm there.  Last I knew I'm not sure Smith was marketing them to civilian but one would certainly be nice.
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 7:26:19 AM EDT
Brownells has them for sub-$100 and even lower if you have dealer pricing.  Man I need some disposable income!  I have a bunch of product to pay for and I may bonus me some $$ to get this thing.  

[url=http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=18711&title=TACTICAL+RIFLE+TACTICAL+VORTEX+FLASH+HIDER].308 Vortex[/url]
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