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Posted: 2/20/2005 5:41:37 PM EST
Like to know opinions on the Black Hills MK-262 ammo? I have been pondering this round for "rainy day" ammo in my 1-7 Colts... They aren't cheap though... even blemished ones.


From Fulton Armory web site:
New Manufacture Military 5.56MM (MK-262) Ammunition with the famed Sierra MatchKing Bullets. This is the ammo used by our warfighters in Southwest Asia and the Mid-East. Superb Accuracy

These are virtually perfect, but may have cosmetic defects such as discoloration, dents, scratches and a very few may have a neck "pimple" where a powder grain was caught as the bullet was seated. This is a fantastic deal; quantities are limited!
Packaged in civilian boxes but marked "5.56-MM." Case quantities only!

Case of 500 - $324.95 -



Rmpl
Link Posted: 2/21/2005 2:36:26 AM EST
you could buy this stuff to see how your rifle liked it.


but for SHTF ammo, i dunno if it's such a good idea. if it feeds/groups good, buy the unblemished stuff to keep by your bedside.
Link Posted: 2/21/2005 4:39:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2005 8:22:01 AM EST by Rmplstlskn]
The "blems" look to be the only ones available... I have been unable to find NEW production MK-262's and there are many threads about this.... anyone have a link?

Rmpl
Link Posted: 2/21/2005 7:35:14 AM EST
If you intend on shooting at long ranges I'd get some. But my "rainy day" stocks are Black Hills 75gr OTMs as it's more cost effective, and in a carbine I don't really notice the accuracy difference; and it's roughly 1/2 the price of the Mk262..
Link Posted: 2/22/2005 3:35:25 PM EST
I prefer the MK II AAP 62 grn Federal partition sp. to get through and touch someone easier
to find also!
Link Posted: 2/22/2005 3:49:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/22/2005 4:10:17 PM EST
Is this the same as the 68gr Heavy Match HP?
Link Posted: 2/23/2005 9:58:30 AM EST
Anyone know?
Link Posted: 2/23/2005 11:17:14 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/23/2005 8:10:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By Forest:
If you intend on shooting at long ranges I'd get some. But my "rainy day" stocks are Black Hills 75gr OTMs as it's more cost effective, and in a carbine I don't really notice the accuracy difference; and it's roughly 1/2 the price of the Mk262..



+1 You'll never know the difference between the BH 75 Gn. and the MK262...and neither will the bad guy!

Tack
Link Posted: 2/28/2005 2:43:51 PM EST
While using MK-262 MOD-0i have noticed a lot less copper build up in my barrel, as compaired to shooting M855. I have only shot out to 200yds with it. Very accurate!!!
Link Posted: 3/1/2005 9:05:14 PM EST
I'm using the GPSS batch of Mk 262. It's not "match" ammo, but its accurate enough for its intended use. It's certainly louder and much dirtier than Hornady TAP 75Gn. Black Hills uses some really sooty powder in their .223/556 ammo.
Link Posted: 3/2/2005 7:17:36 PM EST
I picked up some Black Hills 77gr Match HP from my gun shop today. Is this the MK-262? It's in a blue box marked...1st line, .223 Remington, 2nd line 77gr Match HP. It's in Lake City brass. They had some 75gr(?) moly & regular and this stuff was sitting beside it. Have I found a pot of gold?? All replies are greatly appreciated!

Robert
Link Posted: 3/2/2005 7:29:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/2/2005 7:32:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By Tac2cal:
I picked up some Black Hills 77gr Match HP from my gun shop today. Is this the MK-262? It's in a blue box marked...1st line, .223 Remington, 2nd line 77gr Match HP. It's in Lake City brass. They had some 75gr(?) moly & regular and this stuff was sitting beside it. Have I found a pot of gold?? All replies are greatly appreciated!

Robert



No pot of gold... The MK-262 is just basically the same ammo but with sealed crimped primer/cannulared bullets .

Good characteristics for use in a combat environment firing thru FA weapons but pretty much a waste of money over regular BH 75-77 loaded match ammo for those 511 wearing Tactical Terry's who just have to have what the " Operators " use. But I guess it's their $ and they can do what they wan't
Link Posted: 3/2/2005 10:01:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By tangeant:

Originally Posted By Tac2cal:
I picked up some Black Hills 77gr Match HP from my gun shop today. Is this the MK-262? It's in a blue box marked...1st line, .223 Remington, 2nd line 77gr Match HP. It's in Lake City brass. They had some 75gr(?) moly & regular and this stuff was sitting beside it. Have I found a pot of gold?? All replies are greatly appreciated!

Robert



No pot of gold... The MK-262 is just basically the same ammo but with sealed crimped primer/cannulared bullets .

Good characteristics for use in a combat environment firing thru FA weapons but pretty much a waste of money over regular BH 75-77 loaded match ammo for those 511 wearing Tactical Terry's who just have to have what the " Operators " use. But I guess it's their $ and they can do what they wan't



It also works better when it hits the target.
Which is important to those of use who actually rely on our ARs for self defense.

You know some people actually DO intened to use their guns to protect themselvs, not as toys as you seem to consider them.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 7:40:38 PM EST
Go to any gun shop. Pick up a reloading manual that has instructions in it. Read what it says about dented cases, cases with bulges in them, etc. MK 262 has only been out about 4 years. If they are selling blemished, dented, scratched, or other wised damaged ammo you have to ask your self "how did it get this way?" Use what you want but if it is for your defense get the best you can afford that will function reliably in your weapon.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 1:36:47 PM EST
enforcer22,
If you will IM me your address, I'd like to send you some of the cosmetic second MK262 to evaluate. I'll just pull some out of inventory and ship it nc so you can see what it is. I agree with your statement about buying good ammo. For those who want real MK262, this is the only stuff commercially available. We do not offer MK262 commercially, except the cosmetic seconds. This isn't stuff returned from being hauled around in mags and returned to us. It is minor cosmetic defects culled during the hand inspection process. Thanks, Jeff
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 4:13:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/8/2005 4:15:17 PM EST by Mythe]
Here are some pics of the "blemished" MK262 I just received today from Cabelas.


Link Posted: 3/8/2005 4:14:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/8/2005 4:16:19 PM EST by blackeye]


Is this the 77 Grain MKCL 5.56 round they are selling on their website?


Link Posted: 3/8/2005 4:19:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By blackeye:

Is this the 77 Grain MKCL 5.56 round they are selling on their website?





Yes it is the 5.56 MKCL Cabelas has on their website.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 4:35:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/8/2005 4:36:39 PM EST by Kimber_45]
where at at the website, i couldnt find it. I know I know, I'm an internet tard
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 4:43:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kimber_45:
where at at the website, i couldnt find it. I know I know, I'm an internet tard



Hunting / Optics > Ammunition > Rifle Ammunition > Black Hills > Red Box
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 3:16:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mythe:
Here are some pics of the "blemished" MK262 I just received today from Cabelas.



I don't "see" any blemishes... Maybe the bullet nose is tweaked a bit??? Looks better than XM193. Mine should arrive on Thursday...

Rmpl
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 5:48:05 AM EST

I don't "see" any blemishes... Maybe the bullet nose is tweaked a bit??? Looks better than XM193. Mine should arrive on Thursday...

Rmpl



What Jeff considers blems are other's premium production.
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 5:53:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By sierraeight:
We do not offer MK262 commercially, except the cosmetic seconds. This isn't stuff returned from being hauled around in mags and returned to us. It is minor cosmetic defects culled during the hand inspection process. Thanks, Jeff



I really, really wish you would change that policy.
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 5:59:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By sierraeight:
We do not offer MK262 commercially, except the cosmetic seconds. This isn't stuff returned from being hauled around in mags and returned to us. It is minor cosmetic defects culled during the hand inspection process. Thanks, Jeff



I really, really wish you would change that policy.


+261
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 9:14:32 AM EST
What version of Mk262 is the Cabela's blemished ammo considered to be?
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 3:29:26 PM EST
yojmbo,
MK262Mod1. 5.56mm 77 grain Sierra with cannelure. Jeff
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 3:30:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By Yojimbo:
What version of Mk262 is the Cabela's blemished ammo considered to be?



MK 262 MOD 1
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 5:05:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By sierraeight:
yojmbo,
MK262Mod1. 5.56mm 77 grain Sierra with cannelure. Jeff



are the noses tweaked becaused they have been chambered?
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 5:13:58 AM EST
AROKIE,
They have not been chambered.The noses aren't tweaked. If you are looking at the slight unevenness of the tips, those are normal match bullets. They pretty much all look that way. It is part of the manufacturing process, and does not affect accuracy, function or performance in the slightest. Jeff
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 10:07:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/10/2005 10:10:13 AM EST by TANGOCHASER]
I had the opportunity to test MK262 against M855 in Iraq. I was using M855 to eradicate wild dogs and had to shoot them 2-3 times to get a kill. The round would completely penetrate. The exit wounds were much larger than the entrance wound but the dogs kept running away. I took to shooting them in the front shoulder to stop them from running, then I had to run up close and shoot them in the head to kill them.

I picked up some MK262 ammo from some Special Forces guys. These rounds were awesome. 1 shot, 1 kill. None of the rounds ever exited the body. Outstanding stopping power against 50-60 pound dogs. I killed 27 dogs in 13 months so I had a large test bed.

This was out of a 14.4" Bushmaster 1/9 barrel. Fired at least 1 4" shot group at 300 meters.
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 1:21:46 PM EST
Nothing like real world examples... Flesh is flesh-gelatin is gelatin... Thanks for the info from Iraq, one of the few places you can do such observations...

Rmpl
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 1:37:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By sierraeight:
AROKIE,
They have not been chambered.The noses aren't tweaked. If you are looking at the slight unevenness of the tips, those are normal match bullets. They pretty much all look that way. It is part of the manufacturing process, and does not affect accuracy, function or performance in the slightest. Jeff




roger that. thanks for the info. cant wait to shoot some of this.
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 1:38:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By TANGOCHASER:
I had the opportunity to test MK262 against M855 in Iraq. I was using M855 to eradicate wild dogs and had to shoot them 2-3 times to get a kill. The round would completely penetrate. The exit wounds were much larger than the entrance wound but the dogs kept running away. I took to shooting them in the front shoulder to stop them from running, then I had to run up close and shoot them in the head to kill them.

I picked up some MK262 ammo from some Special Forces guys. These rounds were awesome. 1 shot, 1 kill. None of the rounds ever exited the body. Outstanding stopping power against 50-60 pound dogs. I killed 27 dogs in 13 months so I had a large test bed.

This was out of a 14.4" Bushmaster 1/9 barrel. Fired at least 1 4" shot group at 300 meters.



what did they do against insurgents??
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 11:08:32 PM EST
I didn't get the opportunity to wack a tango while I was there but they aren't much thicker in the mid section than a large dog. I would expect the same results.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 5:01:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2005 5:02:11 AM EST by Rmplstlskn]
removed... would have taken thread in different direction...
Rmpl


Link Posted: 3/11/2005 5:12:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By sierraeight:
AROKIE,
They have not been chambered.The noses aren't tweaked. If you are looking at the slight unevenness of the tips, those are normal match bullets. They pretty much all look that way. It is part of the manufacturing process, and does not affect accuracy, function or performance in the slightest. Jeff

Jeff, is this the same as the Creedmore Load, and any local dealers in DE,PA ,or NJ have this ammo?
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:19:45 AM EST
Target435,
The Creedmooor load is in commercial brass, but with crimped and sealed primer,waterproofed case mouth, 75 grain Hornady bullet,at commercial (SAAMI) pressure and velocity. It is not MK262.
MK262 is sold to the military. It is a 77 grain Sierra with canelure, to complete mil spec including pressure and velocity. Cabelas and Fulton Armory DO have MK262MOD1, but it is in commercial packaging (as compared to the military cans and wirebound crates) and it is the cosmetic seconds pulled from military runs. Jeff
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:21:25 AM EST
Target435,
I forgot to mention, if you call our office (605-348-5150) and give them your zipcode they can tell you if there are any BHA dealers close to you. Jeff
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 11:15:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By sierraeight:
Target435,
I forgot to mention, if you call our office (605-348-5150) and give them your zipcode they can tell you if there are any BHA dealers close to you. Jeff

thanks for the update
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 11:24:07 AM EST
Jeff,
Can you tell us why you won't offer this ammunition for sale to the public? Is it contractual, liability, or something you don't wish to discuss?
Thank You,
CJ
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 11:31:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 11:37:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By brouhaha:
As posted by Jeff in another thread:


Thanks for the kind words. Regarding the 77, yes we do load it for the US military. For several years it was a really quiet deal, then the military allowed press about it, and the cat was out. I know there is a demand for it commercially, but it will never be available at the prices folks want it for. It is expensive, even to the US military, and there are reasons that it is. It is not mass produced on machines the size of Lake Cities or Winchesters equipment. It is produced at rates LC would probably describe as excruciatingly slow. It is made with one lot of powder, one lot of brass, and one lot of projectile per ammunition lot. There are very strict performance requirements and lot testing required. Every round is hand inspected. Those things makes it expensive. Even so, for the past 3 years we have generally shipped as soon as it was made, as fast as we could make it. (Still remember we don't make it very quickly). The military gets priority, ethically and by contract.
I am reluctant to offer a version commercially, even done without the military contract details that add to the price. The US miitary must always have the best price offered, (again,ethically and contractually, since they purchase more of the item than any other customer could ever purchase in 100 years) so, for us to cut corners on the requirements, to offer an essentailly identical product at a lower price to someone other than the US government could cause contract problems.
We do offer the cosmetic seconds , from the actual military runs. These actaully meet the contract spec. Yes, I said that right. they meet the contract specs . We inspect into several categories. Our inspection standard , for ammo classified as "cosmetic seconds" is that the flaw should not be anything that affects safety, function, or performance. Typically ammo is seconded due to brass discoloration, too much or too little colored primer sealant, minor dents, or what we call "powder bumps", which occur when a granule of propellant is trapped between the projectile and the case neck. This causes a cosmetic bump in the neck, but to be classified as a cosmetic second it must still be within dimensional tolerances. We have done testing on this. It (surprisingly) does not have any practial effect on accuracy. A few years ago we sent AMU some of their normal ammo, plus inadvertantly shipped them the cosmetic samples we had culled from their run. AMU decided to test them along with their first line ammo of the same lot. Guess which ammo shot better.The cosmetic seconds. At the risk of sounding arrogant, I think our seconds look nicer than most first line military ammo I have ever seen.




Fine!




OK, I can accept that. So long as it doesn't stop or go the way of the Fed "XM---PD" stuff that we are currently seeing......
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 3:23:21 PM EST
Jeff, do you suspect this cabela's offering of the mk262 going to be a regular item for them, or others for that matter?
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 7:21:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By JJREA:
Jeff, do you suspect this cabela's offering of the mk262 going to be a regular item for them, or others for that matter?



Yup, my thoughts exactly...
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 6:31:45 PM EST
The 77 grain Sierra Match HP is a nice heavy bullet. No one seems to be interested in, including the military in the 80 grain Match HP thats offered. Heavier should be better and we all know its going to be well stabilized in those 1:7 and 1:9 twists. Anyone have a comment. Maybe someone should twist Sierra's arm to cannelure this heavier bullet and offer it to Blackhills.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 6:51:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By usndoc1964:
The 77 grain Sierra Match HP is a nice heavy bullet. No one seems to be interested in, including the military in the 80 grain Match HP thats offered. Heavier should be better and we all know its going to be well stabilized in those 1:7 and 1:9 twists. Anyone have a comment. Maybe someone should twist Sierra's arm to cannelure this heavier bullet and offer it to Blackhills.



Maybe it has something to do with keeping within 5.56 specs. The MK262, as it sits right now, just fits in the USGI magazines with only a hair to spare...

Rmpl
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 7:18:40 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 9:44:51 AM EST
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