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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/3/2003 8:25:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2003 10:51:32 AM EDT by Lockedon]
I have the oppertunity to purchase a preban lower by Advanced Armament (longville texas). And i'd just like to get a second opinion DSo i have a couple of questions:

1) i've never heard of this brand before, Does anyone know ANYTHING about them??

2)I've also never heard of any MILLED AR reciever, so can someone please enlighten to the benefits/cons. when compared to forged recievers?

3)How tough, and reliable are they? Since it's a preban, i will make this my tactical SHTF project.

4)Anyone have a Serial number list of some sort for this brand?

Thank you very very much!
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 8:31:01 AM EDT
Aren't all "forged" receivers milled from a raw forging? Him
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 4:06:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2003 4:06:35 PM EDT by Lockedon]
I'm sorry Him, but you have to elaborate...I don't understand
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 5:52:06 PM EDT
Milling is a process in which metal is cut from a forging or casting with a high speed rotating cutting bit to meet specific dimensions.(It's a good thing) You'll want to be certain that the receiver is milled from a forging rather than a casting. As castings can break when you drop them.
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 6:13:35 PM EDT
I think SOCOM industries has a lower that was machined (milled) from a solid block of aluminum. I inquired about them for an M4 project but was warned off since it is bulky and heavy. Looks tough though. Maybe if I build a 458 SOCOM... I think JP enterprises sells something similar too.
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 6:16:19 PM EDT
Milled(from a forging) and forged receivers are usually considered equally good.
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 6:28:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2003 8:27:01 PM EDT by JusDfacts]
Real milled receivers were milled from solid plate by Rocky Mountain Arms and RND Machining, starting in 1992. Forged receivers are milled out of a forging that has the basic exterior contours. Cast receivers run from the old Essential Arms to the state of the art DPMS that are cast by Ruger. A few companies milled ectra cuts on forgings to make them appear to have been made from plate, but the flase claim is easily found by close examination. Milling from 7075 T-6 billet is extremely precise...and expensive as both the interior and now exterior milling to finished shape is requirred....3 times the CNC time = 3 X the expense to produce. Les Baer had one @ the Las Vegas SHOT show when he introduced his AR's...it was a thing of beauty ! Hope that clears up some of the issue !
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 6:30:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By WJS1820: Milling is a process in which metal is cut from a forging or casting with a high speed rotating cutting bit to meet specific dimensions.(It's a good thing) You'll want to be certain that the receiver is milled from a forging rather than a casting. As castings can break when you drop them.
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How could you tell the difference between the two?
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 6:36:45 PM EDT
uh...drop it, I guess?
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 6:58:34 PM EDT
Go to Olympic Arms web site, go to FAQ there is an article on how to tell forged vs. cast. Glockdog Airborne!!
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 7:19:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TwoTwentyThree: Milled(from a forging) and forged receivers are usually considered equally good.
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... ...Thats because they are the same thing. ALL receivers are milled to some degree, evemn if they are a quality casting. Oly Arms made the first commercially available receiver that was milled from solid billet aluminum. Many of them still exist almost 30 years later. The receivers that companies have made from billet are excellent in most all cases. Very strong, but also "blocky" looking.
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 7:21:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2003 7:43:02 AM EDT by the1_roadrunner]
Any FINISHED lower receiver whether it be MACHINED from a Billet, Forged or Cast is milled, drilled and broached. In the forging or casting process the basic receiver shape and features are molded. Then the internal cavities are cut with an End Mill. Faying surfaces such as the upper receiver interface and buttstock interface are also milled. All pin holes are drilled and reamed. The mag well is broached because the corners have to be square. It cannot be milled because an end mill (picture a router bit) leaves a radius in the corners. The same goes with a Billet which is by the way, simply "wrought plate". The only plate I know of being used is 7075-T6 (BTW, I don’t know of any 7071 series aluminum). Since, as someone mentioned, the basic part features are not cast or forged, the entire part shape has to be MACHINED. The critical attributes of ANY lower receiver are MACHINED to the same tolerances (if Milspec) whether it be a billet, forging or casting. The only thing more precise on a MACHINED billet (known as a “hogout”) would be the nonfunctional exterior surfaces. So there is simply NO functional advantage to a entirely MACHINED billet. That being said there is a big difference in the base material structures. A casting is absolutely the weakest. In fact the desired 7075-T6 aluminum cannot be cast. Yes this means, cast lower receivers are NOT the ultimate 7075-T6 aluminum. 7075-T6 plate (billet) is stronger because it is rolled. And Forged 7075-T6 is STRONGEST because it is hammered into shape creating a tighter and HARDER molecular structure. [b]So there you have it Best- Forged 7075-T6 2nd Best- Billet 7075-T6 Worst- Cast[/b] LOL… anymore questions? --RR
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 9:18:47 AM EDT
Very good description of the process. However I think the difference between the strength of the metal for the billet and the raw forging are very subtle and when you consider the beef of the mileed versions I think the two are definitely right on par with the billet being slightly higher strictly because of mass. I understand the forging process strengthens the metal considerably but the rolling of the billet also compresses the molecules of the metal, however it is paralell planes as opposed to the forging being to shape. All said and done I think if you stay away from castings all is good. That 356 Al is only half the stength of the 7075. Ok useles rant, Sorry
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 9:50:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By the1_roadrunner: The mag well is broached because the corners have to be square. It cannot be milled because an end mill (picture a router bit) leaves a radius in the corners. The same goes with a Billet which is by the way, simply "wrought plate". The only plate I know of being used is 7075-T6 (BTW, I don’t know of any 7071 series aluminum).
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The corners do not have to be square. The corners of the magazines are not square. The magazine doesn't even touch the magwell in the corners. It is [i]radiused[/i] for strength. To prevent a concentrating stress point like a sharp corner would be. If you want to to a magwell by yourself, you use 1/8 inch drill bits in the corners or you use 5/32 in the corners. Then mill out the rest and finish with a file. You don't need no steeking broach! [:)]. Or you use EDM. I thought that someone was using 6061-T6? Not that it really matters I suppose.
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 2:23:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2003 7:43:08 PM EDT by the1_roadrunner]
Originally Posted By 123whisper:
Originally Posted By the1_roadrunner: The mag well is broached because the corners have to be square. It cannot be milled because an end mill (picture a router bit) leaves a radius in the corners. The same goes with a Billet which is by the way, simply "wrought plate". The only plate I know of being used is 7075-T6 (BTW, I don’t know of any 7071 series aluminum).
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The corners do not have to be square. The corners of the magazines are not square. The magazine doesn't even touch the magwell in the corners. It is [i]radiused[/i] for strength. To prevent a concentrating stress point like a sharp corner would be. If you want to to a magwell by yourself, you use 1/8 inch drill bits in the corners or you use 5/32 in the corners. Then mill out the rest and finish with a file. You don't need no steeking broach! [:)]. Or you use EDM. I thought that someone was using 6061-T6? Not that it really matters I suppose.
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Yup, there are okie ways to do just about anything.... I'm talking about cost effective manufacturing techniques.
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 2:58:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By coldzero: Very good description of the process. However I think the difference between the strength of the metal for the billet and the raw forging are very subtle and when you consider the beef of the mileed versions I think the two are definitely right on par with the billet being slightly higher strictly because of mass. I understand the forging process strengthens the metal considerably but the rolling of the billet also compresses the molecules of the metal, however it is paralell planes as opposed to the forging being to shape. All said and done I think if you stay away from castings all is good. That 356 Al is only half the stength of the 7075. Ok useles rant, Sorry
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Sorry, but a 7075-T6 forging is considerably HARDER than a 7075-T6 billet. This means WEAR resisitance. WEAR resistance is the property one is after in upper and lower gun receivers i,e,, the metal components such as the bolt carrier wearing agaisn't the aluminum. Obviously mechanical strength is desired as well but the primary advantage of 7075-T6 forgings over billet or 6061-T6 is the MUCH higher hardness properties created by the FORGING process. Beefing up the wall thicknes when using billet may create more mechanical strength but it still won't have the hardness (wear resistance) of the forged material. --RR
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 3:05:22 PM EDT
If you are already aware of this, excuse me. Even though they may be saying the lower is pre-ban, you cannot build a pre-ban type rifle on it. The only way you can build a pre-ban rifle is if you possessed the lower and all parts to build the rifle before the 94 CB went into affect. If the lower was built into a complete rifle before the ban, then stripped and sold, I am not 100% certain that rebuilding it into a pre-ban rifle is legal. My take is that since you are not buying the complete rifle, only the stripped lower, you cannot do a pre-ban build. If the lower is completely assembled in pre-ban form (tele-stock), and you can prove it has been that way since before the 94 CB, then it is OK to do a pre-ban build. I do know that if it was never assembled into a complete rifle before the ban went into affect, you will be in violation if you build a pre-ban rifle now, so there is absolutely no reason to pay the usual premium for a pre-ban lower. Of course, the usual caveat applies. There is no special police force that is going to come around and check your rifle's serial number and check it out. The only way you could get into trouble is if the rifle is involved in a crime or stolen, and there is cause for the rifle to be investigated.
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