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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 12/15/2005 3:33:53 AM EDT
Anyone have an MGI QCB upper out there? I want to know how good these are. I got one in yesterday but it doesn't look all that great to me. I don't see how the barrel can stay real tight and therefor accurate. They also cut the bottom of the upper rec. in 3 places, why? It made it very weak on the edges. The forearm is painted with a powder coat or something, makes it look very cheap and looks like it would chip off pretty easy. The paperwork that came with it shows nothing really, so I don't know what the barrel will look like. I would like to know what you guy's think about these thing's, and if they are accuate and repeatable when you change out a barrel. At first it looked like a pretty good idea, but the more I look at it the more drawbacks I see. Any help or thoughts would be great, thank you.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 5:37:09 AM EDT
Search function is your friend:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=258692
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=259470
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=259845
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=255793
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=244268
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=254595

I'm sure Tom is going to step in here and answer all your specific questions.

I will say, as an owner of one, that I've never seen a company provide the support to it's customers like MGI. Tom and Mack are remarkable gentlemen who are dedicated to making their customers happy.

V/r

Wayne

Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:03:24 AM EDT
+1 on the search function
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:13:10 AM EDT
The cuts are for use with MGI's lower that will accept AK mags. The AK mags fit into the reliefs at those three points. The barrel is plenty tight in my upper with the throw levers closed. As for the powder coat, I have to agree that it's not the best, but I figured I would maybe strip it off and do KG or Norells on it.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 2:22:56 PM EDT
I'll tell you what if you hate it so much i will give you $300 for it right now. PROBLEM SOLVED
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 5:07:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rebel102285:
I'll tell you what if you hate it so much i will give you $300 for it right now. PROBLEM SOLVED



Thats a good idea..... and here I was just going to send it back to Brownells and get all my money back. I'd much rather lose $144
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 5:33:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bolster:
The cuts are for use with MGI's lower that will accept AK mags. The AK mags fit into the reliefs at those three points. The barrel is plenty tight in my upper with the throw levers closed. As for the powder coat, I have to agree that it's not the best, but I figured I would maybe strip it off and do KG or Norells on it.



Thank you very much. How well does your's go back to zero if you take the barrel out and stick it back in? Is the barrel snug in the rec.? They reamed this one where the barrel goes in, I would think they would want to leave it tight as possible. Does the barrel have a pin or key on it to keep it from rotating around? I wish they had sent a good description of the barrel and how it work's with it. All I got was a small paper telling you what to take off the barrel, nothing about the gas tube or head spacing or anything! By the way, there are 3 little screw's on the end of the forarm, what are they for? Are they for the forarm ext. I'v seen?
And yes, that powder coat is pretty poor stuff, if I keep it I'll probably bead blast it and spray it with Duracoat. (I don't know why they didn't do that in the first place.) I guess it all rides on how well the barrel goes in, how accurate it is, and how well it goes back to zero after taking the barrel in and out. If it does all this good, it will be a keeper. Thanks again for your help, I'll look forward to hearing what you have to say.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 6:49:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 10:41:25 AM EDT by WayneG]
REDDOT,

I can't say how mine shoots, as I found a small problem with the barrel lock up after I got the unit. I spoke to Tom about it, he asked me to send the upper and all my barrels to Mack Sr. Mack personnally ensured the problem was corrected quickly and he made sure all my barrels locked up perfectly before he would send it back. Mack Sr. is one of the most gracious and generous gentlemen I have ever dealt with in this industry. Trust me when I say he has some great plans for the QCB concept. I can't say enough good things about MGI. I sincerely doubt you would find this kind of attention from LMT. It should be back in my hands next week and I will be shooting it over the holidays.

Specific answers to specific questions: The small screws on the forearm tube are to hold the forearm extention, which allows you to use longer barrels and still have the gas tube covered. It twists into the existing forearm and those screws hold it in place.

The barrel orients itself and won't twist due to the barrel extention. If up look at your barrel extention it has a raised section at the 12 oclock area. When the lugs lock the barrel in that area keys into the receiver and prevents twist. Tolerances are TIGHT. Some folks have to sand a bit off their extentions to get the barrels to go in. Can't speak about repeat zero since mine remains unfired but Bearbait1, real name Craig, posts on this board and he has been really wringing his QCB out well. He swaps between 3 different barrels in different calibers and has no problems with repeatability. In fact, after reading his stuff I was inspired to get a 458 SOCOM barrel from Teppu Jetsu. Marty at TJ is a huge fan of the QCB.

Headspacing is not really necessary, as the AR system has the headspace done between the barrel and the extention vice barrel and receiver. Speaking for Tom, he told me he checks the headspace when he first installs a brand new barrel and that's it. Headspace is really not a problem as long as your barrels are coming from a reputable company.

Yup, the powder coat probably wasn't the most durable finish, but cost is a factor here. You can always have the upper refinished.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to contact Tom at twlyons@juno.com. He will help you through any problem.

V/r

Wayne
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 5:29:00 AM EDT
WayneG,
Thanks for the info. I'v heard nothing but good about MGI, which is, well...good! I like the idea of the CQB upper, but need a little proof it works. (There is sooo much junk out there, it tends to make me sceptical.) Do you know anything about the lower's they make with the quick change mag well's? That too seems like a great idea, if it work's. Thats something I thought are troops should have for years. If they could just carry a 14" barrel, mag well, and bolt, they could pick up downed enemy fighter's mag's / ammo (AK type) if they ran out. This would allow them to keep going using the AR platform they are used to. Thank you very much for the info. I'v got to get my hands on a barrel to see how they fit now. I'll try calling MGI also and see what they say. Good luck with your's.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 6:54:09 AM EDT
Reddot,

I spoke to Mack Sr. at some length about the lower. In case you are unaware, he has been involved in the development of the AR system since it began. Some of the gentleman involved in E. Stoners team work with Mack. So I would say he is probably the most knowledgable guy around on the ENGINEERING of the weapon. He is very enthusastic about the lower, yet he will not put it on the market until he is content that it is a durable and reliable piece of gear. He told me the initial units will include the AR and AK magwell (AK mags will insert like AR mags, straight in, no rocking like on an AK). Second magwell will be the grease gun .45, after that they will listen to what the users want and continue releasing additional magwells.

V/r

Wayne
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:48:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 6:52:38 PM EDT by Bearbait1]
Reddot,

Wayne covered things pretty darn well in his post, but I'll add my observations.

First, we all agree that the powder coating is a little cheesy, but when you weigh that against the cost of the alternative, and the fact that the alternative has a pretty poor choice of calibers, it becomes a no brainer for me. If you liken it to performance automotives, most folks start with the engine, and paint is way down on the list. If you get grief at the range from your cosmetic friends, just pop in different barrel and ask them if theirs will do that.

With regards to the "engine", it does indeed perform. I have had 4 different barrels in mine, all from different makers, and all work wonderfully. The levers should close fairly snuggly up to the edge of the detent, and then take a bit of force to get over the detent. All of my barrels are snug, all shoot as well as they did in their prior upper and I couldn't be happier.

What I have found with the POA/POI repeatability is that I am well less than 1 moa switching barrels and my Nightforce rings (mount). What I have found is that each barrel will have it's own POI that may differ from the others. I have three barrels that are close to the same settings on my scope, and one that "shoots" a couple 3 inches left at 100 yards (my only true Colt barrel).
Who would have thought that the 5.56 (pistol and rifle) and 458 Socom are that close at 100 yards with the same scope and rings? I have my scope and Aimpoint set up for the 3 barrels, and have my clicks recorded for all of them. When I put in the Colt barrel, I just click over. The others are only a click or two from being perfect, which is as much variation as you can get with any rifle, combining the variables of load, wind and environment, shooting positions etc. The Nightforce scope makes clicking a snap. Well marked, positive and repeatable.

As I primarily hunt and plink with my system, it is simply a matter of changing the barrel, making the small click adjustments and I am good to go for most hunting distances. When I am planning a major hunt, I take the gun out and double check zeros, as i would with any other hunting firearm. It has always been minute of critter at distances I would normally shoot. My only caveat to this is long range prairie dogging. Could I pop in my 5.56 cold and hit a dog at 300 yards on the first shot? Probably, but I can only guarantee that it will be pretty darn close on the first shot. Now the second shot, they better run for cover. But then a PD is pretty tiny at 300 yards. There was a time when I had to have that first shot at 300 yards, but taken in light of the entire QCB system and its flexibility, I'm learning, livin' and luving it.

Craig

Edit: Forgot to mention, Tom got called a used car salesman, and is now in hiding. Trust me, that was actually quite a complement to the Car salesmen out there. If there were more folks out there like Tom and Mack who sold, preached and stood behind their products, we would all be much better off.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:10:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 7:12:03 PM EDT by yekimak]
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:24:18 PM EDT
If Tom ever started selling used cars, he's got me for a customer! When I first ordered my upper, I called to find out about shipping, as I didn't receive the package when expected. Tom checked the tracking, and found out the package somehow ended up in another state. "I'll send another one out tomorrow, and if you happen to get two, call me and I'll schedule a pickup for the extra package". If I remember right, he next day aired the replacement, and ate the shipping.

I took my setup into a gun show to show a couple of dealers I knew, and had, if I remember right, three or four people ask me if I wanted to sell it in 10 minutes. Everyone was fascinated with the ability to break the entire rifle down into a 19 inch long package in less time than it takes to read this post.

I'm thinking about painting the free-float tube with the stuff sold to put a rubber coating on tools, figure I can peel it off if it doesn't work.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 3:38:18 AM EDT
Thanks guy's, that makes me feel better about it. I'll get a barrel and give it a try, I just hope it will go back to at least 1 moa when taking out the barrel. I understand that from barrel to barrel there will be some difference, thats true in all set up's. If it work's as good as you guy's say I'll be very happy. I wish they would get the lower out, that look's pretty nice. It's like waiting for that XCR, everytime I call..... 3 more week's...... 3 more week's....... 3 more week's! I'v heard 3 more week's for well over 7 month's now. The last call I made they said another 2 month's at least! Think it will ever come?
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 4:47:00 AM EDT
I hadn't been following the Robinson thing, but if you're trying to decide between the two, you can definitely get the MGI upper now, it'll fit on your lower, and barrels are cheap.

When the Robinson comes out, wait awhile, and you'll get more unbiased reviews on the system, after the production models get a wringing out by buyers. Then you can decide if the modular lowers with your upper are the way to go...just my 2 cents worth.

Link Posted: 12/20/2005 11:12:31 AM EDT
Trigger,

I have had similar reactions to mine. Everyone just loves it, and the way it works. The price point was such that I could have it and two barrels for the price of the other system. Not to mention my dedicated 22LR barrel. I wonder when LMT is gonna do a 22LR barrel? Yea, right. I put a lot of 22LR down range with mine.

I'll probably get around to refinishing mine this winter. Or not, it does not really bother me.

Craig
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 11:26:52 AM EDT
I'm already planning ahead to match up with the new magwells for the lower! I need to get a 7.62x39 barrel and bolt, already got plenty of mags for that. And stock up on Grease Gun mags. Darn it, I'll need to pin down a .45 barrel and bolt, too. Does Olympic sell just the components? Or do I just hold off on that and get the 18" SPR barrel in 5.56? AAAHHHHH!!!

I only wish they had released the lower in time for Chrismahannufestakwanzica! Would have been easier to justifiy all these new acquisitions when I testify before the Household Defense Appropriations Board.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:45:47 PM EDT
So far I have 2 barrels for mine, 223 and 458. Point of impact is close for both rounds, go figure. I only have a red dot on my rifle, when switching barrels, it holds pretty tight. The barrels also fit very snug. Definitely need lube to get them to slide in.

I would agree about the powder coat, but I am going to Norell's my gun anyway. My only gripe is that I wanted a 6.5 Grendel barrel for it. After a conversation they won't sell the barrel and bolt and they are working with several switch barrel systems, but "not MGI".
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:08:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 9:28:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 9:31:44 PM EDT by Green0]
I have been watching this thing for a couple years and lately after I heard that POI change is under 1MOA I have become sliding gradualy toward buying one. I think that might just be what has to happen here.

I would like to get one with four full or as close to full as possible length carbine rails, and the upcomming product that is supposed to look more like an RAS sounds great but I don't know if it is worth waiting for it.

I thought it was funny to think that the government paid KAC like some obscene amount 10,000 or 100,000 $ a rifle for a couple 7.62x39 M4's when the MGI QCB system should be around $1000-$1500 a rifle for the same capability in a more easilly deployable form.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 9:34:34 PM EDT

Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:40:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 6:00:39 AM EDT by twl]
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:23:36 AM EDT
I'm excited about that. Finally it won't be a big deal to switch a barrel. I never even thought about how much I could save. Basically $100 an upper plus $200-$400 for rail systems.

I had a couple barrels comming in that I was hoping to find old beat to crap M4 uppers to put on and now the barrel is all I need. Even the .22lr barrels can swap into this.
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