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11/24/2017 4:44:23 PM
11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/15/2004 3:38:30 AM EST
I just thought I would give my AR15 brothers a heads-up. I have an article on the QCB from MGI coming out in the December (Vol. 8 No. 3) issue of Small Arms Review. As a little preview, I have been "wringing these out" for a year now and I am very impressed! I do have a soft spot for accessories and upgrades for the "Black Rifle" so this was a natural assignment for me. As an aside, I saw someone a while ago concerned about MGI being in business for a long time to support this product. I don't see it as an issue as Mack has been involved in the industry for over 30 years now AND the upper uses all stock parts like barrels and bolts, etc. Nothing is ever needed from MGI to support this once you have it.

http://hunter.e-maine.net/pics/22MGIsmall.jpg


On another front, how about that Clinton Gun Ban going away!!!!!!!!! It feels nice to be on the winning side of one of these once in a while. The anti's are stirred up like hornets in a wet nest so we will be fighting like hell still, but for now we have moved their adgenda backwards. Great job to everyone who fought for this. The laws are pretty confusing as to what we can and can not do now because we have regulations pertaining to semiautomatic firearms going back to 1968. Because of this I wrote an article in the November issue of Small Arms Review that details all of them. It is entitled "Semiautomatic Gun Bans - Enemy of Firearms Both Foreign & Domestic." Our legal team went over it with a fine toothed comb so hopefully it will be helpful in explaining which ban pertains to which regulations.

Oh well, enough shameless plugs

I hope everyone here at AR15.com is doing well and is enjoying SAR.

Most Sincerely,

Jeff W. Zimba
Production Manager
Small Arms Review Magazine
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 3:55:01 AM EST
Somone posted a thread asking about these things. I'll have to check it out thanks for the heads up. I still say it needs a rail at 12 and 6 that little bit of rail on the front at the 6 just don't cut it.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 4:07:00 AM EST
If an addition of a rail is requested, it can be accommodated by special order for a very nominal cost, reflecting the parts and labor cost to modify a production version.
The bottom rail can only extend back to where the levers begin, though.

As Jeff states, this QCB is the real deal, and does what it claims, quickly, reliably, and accurately.

Tom Lyons
MGI Factory Sales Manager

To Jeff,
I'll be looking forward with great interest, to reading your review in the magazine.
Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 5:46:46 AM EST
how much of a nominal cost we talking about? I'd love to get one, but the price tag already is kinda steep without it coming with any barrel and such.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 6:03:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By twl:
If an addition of a rail is requested, it can be accommodated by special order for a very nominal cost, reflecting the parts and labor cost to modify a production version.
The bottom rail can only extend back to where the levers begin, though.

As Jeff states, this QCB is the real deal, and does what it claims, quickly, reliably, and accurately.

Tom Lyons
MGI Factory Sales Manager

To Jeff,
I'll be looking forward with great interest, to reading your review in the magazine.
Thanks.



So what would that run? The other thing is what is the standard barrel length that it comes in? What all has to be done to a barrel so it can be used with this upper?

Would it work with a dedicated 22lr barrel and a conversion kit????
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 7:01:41 AM EST
I'll have to check with Mack on the exact figures, which would depend on how many additional rail segments are desired, but my last info on the subject was "probably less than $40".
If there is alot of demand for this top rail, then we might have to consider making a 4-rail model to meet this need. We are not averse to meeting the desires of customers. We like to get this input, because we can make better products because of these comments. I'm happy that comments like these come up. If we make a production 4-rail model, it will be only a few dollars more than the 3-rail version because of "economies of scale" in production. Maybe I could even talk Mack into making a "group buy" for these 4 rail models, and save everybody some money.

Regarding the questions about the "standard length", it has a carbine-length free-float tube, and will come with a tube extension that will extend it out to rifle-length when you want to use any rifle length barrel. No mid-length systems are currently envisioned, although that too could change if there is enough demand for it. Also, if anyone wants to use a very short barrel under 10.5", the tube can be slotted on top to clear the FSB, or a "shaved FSB", or lo-profile gas block can be used to accommodate the very short barrel's gas system under the handguard tube.

Regarding the barrels that we can use, any AR15/M16 barrel can be used with the QCB. No barrel nut, delta ring, or handguard ring are needed, and must be removed before using with the QCB. The locking block/cam actuator system is designed to hold the normal AR15/M16 barrel extension, so any barrel used must have a barrel extension on it. On a new barrel, it is sometimes a very tight fit, and I have had to remove some of the parkerized finish on the outside of the barrel extension with 0000 steel wool on some occasions, to make it fit in.

For 22LR shooting, I use a 1 in 12" twist lightweight gov't profile barrel, and an Air Force conversion kit. The 1 in 12" twist works best with the 22LR, but others can be used if you want. Any of the regularly available drop-in 22LR AR15 conversion units will work fine with this unit. As far as "dedicated" systems go, we have a full 22LR conversion kit in the works, designed to be used with the QCB, but it won't be available for awhile. But part of the advantage of this system, is that it is non-dedicated, so you can easily switch barrels and calibers. We plan 22LR, 22WMR, 17HMR systems for rimfire, and most pistol and rifle calibers that can fit in the AR15 platform.

As a means to improve the versatility of this QCB system, we are nearing the release of a modular lower receiver which will have modular interchangeable magazine wells. This will allow you to use existing hi capacity magazines from other guns, which will work with your caliber-changing needs. With this package, you could use AK mags for 7.62 x 39, or Grease Gun mags for .45ACP, or Uzi mags for 9mm, etc, without needing "franken-mags" or magazine blocks. Just clip off one mag-well, and substitue another when you change barrel and bolt for another caliber. This modular lower receiver should be out in a few months from now.

This complete MGI QCB upper, and modular lower, as a package, will provide the ultimate in modularity for the AR15/M16 platform that has never been seen before.

For M16 Full-Auto users, we also have a variety of new items which will soon be released, such as an open bolt fire control kit, and a very advanced open-bolt full-auto/closed-bolt semi-auto fire control kit, which allows the operator to have the best of both worlds at his selector. These kits will be "drop-in" and don't require any additional pin-holes or receiver modifications to your gun. Some very innovative barrel-cooling technologies are also on the horizon, with barrel temps not exceeding 500 degrees F(even after hundreds of rounds fired continuously). All items are designed and built to be used by military forces, should they decide to purchase them. Robust, reliable, and effective.

For belt-fed lovers, at some future date a belt-fed option will be available for the modular lower receiver unit.


With all these items, in conjunction with our already revolutionary RRB Rate/Recoil Reducing Buffer, Adjustable Gas Tube, and D-Fender, the AR15/M16 will be in a "new generation" technology level that will allow previously unheard-of controllability, reliability, modularity, versatility, continuous firing capability without cookoffs, selectable open/closed bolt firing, virtually any suitable caliber, barrel length or profile, twist rate, or suppressor. All in a lightweight modular package that exceeds S.C.A.R. specs . With one platform, you can have an entry weapon, a duty weapon, a sniper weapon, a Squad Automatic weapon, a suppressed weapon, and in almost any caliber you want that fits into an AR15 receiver.

We are creating the new generation advanced modular carbine system on the AR15/M16 platform. Our goal is to exceed the military requirements in every category. We fully expect that this system, or at least parts of it, will be in the hands of our military fighting men in the future.

For over 20 years, we have been quietly making products for special forces units. We are at Crane for testing and acceptance regularly. We know how to make military products, and we are innovative in our designs. I haven't even told you about half the stuff we are working on, that is too far in the future to talk about now. We are very serious about keeping the M16 as the weapon for the US military, and are making products that cannot be ignored. If you love the AR15, then watch what we do with it. It ain't your daddy's M16 anymore!
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 7:42:34 AM EST
Is there one web site to see all MGI products?

Could you guys make a monolithic upper like LMT? Or is that patented?

I like how the LMT looks but I like how yours works with milspec barrels and needs no tools.

Was this entered into the SCARs competition?
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 8:49:45 AM EST
Have to ask how it the interface between the gas tube and the receiver taken care of (just push in and out .... or is there a "gas tube carrler" for .223 cal).

This is starting to look like a killer option for 22 LR and 9mm usage (assuming works with Colt 9mm barrel).

Link Posted: 9/15/2004 10:12:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2004 10:16:02 AM EST by twl]
The website is mgimilitary.com

We don't make a "monolithic rail system" like LMT, because we don't want to have to charge as much money as they do for their rail system. We felt it was more important to make it affordable. Our free-float system is simple and useful, and very strong, due to the fact that we have that large diameter QCB locking block to bolt it to. I do understand that different people have different tastes for the appearance of things.

We did not enter this into the S.C.A.R competition, because we are instead just making it available to the public and anyone who wants it. If the military decides to go with our QCB, then they are welcome to give me a call with their quantity requirements. None of the actual S.C.A.R. entries can match our spec for barrel change speed. Don't worry, the military knows we're here, and they are aware of the QCB. This system will end up at Crane, sooner or later.

Regarding the gas tube insertion question, there is a gas tube guide-hole in the QCB locking block, which the gas tube gets inserted into, as you insert the barrel. At first, it seems like it might be difficult, but in practice it only takes about 30 seconds to do a complete barrel change. You leave your gas tubes attached to the barrel assemblies at the front sight base, and insert/withdraw them with the barrel, as an assembly. It works well, and you get used to doing it fairly quickly.

It would be great with 22LR and 9mm, as you suggest, and I think that looks like a 9mm barrel that is in Jeff Zimba's gun in the picture at the top of the page.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 10:33:06 AM EST
Hey TWL how much of the bottom rail is taken up by the levers? Actually I don;t think that matters, cuz it looks to be behind where I would use a grips at. I'll be sure to check out yer website I'm really interested in this upper. Part of that is because of my views on the AR.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 10:38:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 8:43:45 AM EST by hg112]
.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 11:35:57 AM EST
Photoman:

The levers take up about the first 2.9" of the distance in front of the receiver, on the bottom.
The overall handguard tube is about 7.25" long
That leaves about 4.25 inches of total possible rail length on the bottom, while still leaving some small amount of clearance in front of the levers.


Hg112:
Very cool photos!!
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 4:18:32 AM EST
Thanks Jeff, for a great topic.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 5:52:13 AM EST
Hey Jeff,
Is that a 9mm barrel in your gun in the photo?
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 6:08:47 AM EST
Hey, just think how easy it would be to toss barrels in the ultrasonic cleaner.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 9:49:07 AM EST
And it uses standard barrels? That sounds like black magic to me. Impressive, imaginative engineering!
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 10:44:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By twl:
As a means to improve the versatility of this QCB system, we are nearing the release of a modular lower receiver which will have modular interchangeable magazine wells. This will allow you to use existing hi capacity magazines from other guns, which will work with your caliber-changing needs. With this package, you could use AK mags for 7.62 x 39, or Grease Gun mags for .45ACP, or Uzi mags for 9mm, etc, without needing "franken-mags" or magazine blocks. Just clip off one mag-well, and substitue another when you change barrel and bolt for another caliber. This modular lower receiver should be out in a few months from now.



Tell me more about your .22 conversion barrel. What are you envisioning your .22lr kit will use for mags? Will it use a ceiner conversion for instance, or something else? Will you have a mag well that'll use 10/22 mags (please say yes )

--Dan
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 6:31:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By twl:
Hey Jeff,
Is that a 9mm barrel in your gun in the photo?



Nope. It is the beginning of a .22lr project. I had a new barrel that the gas port was drilled incorrectly on. I cut it back to around 10 inches to use exclusively with .22lr. At the time of that photo it still needed to be threaded and crowned. Sorry for the long reply time but I have been out of the office.

Jeff
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 6:57:29 AM EST
Hi Dan,
Currently we can use a Ciener or most other 22 conversion kits that are available.
I use an Air Force 22 Conversion kit with my QCB.
I purchased a nice 20" M16A1 barrel with a 1 in 12" twist, off the EE, for using with my 22 kit.
The 1 in 12" twist works better with the 22LR rounds.
When I want to shoot 22LR, I just take out my 1 in 7" twist M4 barrel, and put in the 20" M16A1 barrel, and install the Air Force Conversion 22LR kit.
Works great, and this is with "off-the-shelf" barrels that are easily found on the EE.

Our proprietary 22LR barrel is not yet prototyped, but we envision a complete kit for internals and barrel. Not sure what mag we'll use yet, or if we'll make our own. We also plan a rimfire kit for 17HMR, and 22WMR, and possibly other rimfires.

In the meantime, the M16A1 barrels and your Ciener kit will do the job nicely. You can use 1 in 9" or 1 in 7" twists for 22LR, but the quick twist takes some of the steam off the little 22LR velocity. I much prefer the 1 in 12" twist for 22LR.

Thanks for your questions.

Tom Lyons
MGI Sales
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 6:45:21 AM EST
Can't say for certain if we will have a magwell for 10/22 mags.
However, it is high on the list of "wants" so we are going to try to get that one on the list.
No promises about which magwells will be out first, except that AK magwells are definitely on the list, and currently operational with our prototype lowers.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:58:14 PM EST
Just as an FYI, I spoke to Jonathan Arthur Ciener today and he is selling 30-round .22 magazines for his AR-15/M16 kit for $59.00 each or 3 for $149.00.

Jeff W. Zimba
Production Manager
Small Arms Review Magazine
Small Arms Review Magazine Website
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:53:47 AM EST
I'm thinking about ordering one of these MGI QCB units.

Anybody with some feedback on how good they are?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 7:06:28 PM EST
I have one. It works as described. It retains zero very well. The barrel changes are quick and easy. I can fit my M4gery with optic, 3 mags, and a .22 conversion unit w/mag all inside one of those double layered pistol cases.

I have about 400 rounds of SS109 and 1000 rounds of .22lr through it. R & R barrel about 25 or 30 times so far. Re-zeroes to my red dot and BUIS every time. I am using a Fulton Armory 1-9" non chrome M4 barrel. With red dot optic I have fired 2" 5 shot groups at 100 yards. With Colt .22 conversion I have fired 1.25" 5 shot groups at 50 yards. Return to zero for R & R the barrel is better than return to zero for R & R the optic on the flat top.

Wish they would come out with the forend extension soon. This will allow use of barrels with full length gas system - and not look like crap because of exposed gas tube.

cap
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 7:19:04 PM EST
They have such an extension in the works -- probably this month.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 6:03:03 PM EST
Here is a photo of my MGI upper:

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:05:29 PM EST
Pic:
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 10:55:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2004 11:05:11 AM EST by binford]
Double bump
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 11:03:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2004 5:33:25 AM EST by binford]
Are you saying that when using the QCB upper an operator can use interchangably the M4 barrel with M4 extension, and the M16 barrel/extension without having a feedramp/ FTF problem?
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