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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/9/2006 8:28:34 PM EDT
Wow, this weekend I blew off a few mags of M855 (bought from Ammoman.com) as a test and they were grouping nicely at 700 yards out of a 16" 1/9 bushy. I was amazed at how little I needed to adjust the BDC in my ACOG TA01, compared to XM193 and Black Hills 75gr blue box (which used the last BDC circle and was not loaded hot at all). I was able to clip a steel 16"x? prairie dog at 700 yds twice.

I made a few comments to some other guys shooting a 20" 1/7 AR and some 308's and one guy said he won a match shooting M855 at long distances, I think it was 500 yards with irons.

Gonna be loading some M855 mags this coming thursday when my father and I hit the range to test my new POF gas-piston upper and do some long range shooting.


- rem
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 8:53:53 PM EDT
Good to hear that it worked so well for you! Usually M-855 doesn't group so well due to the possibility of the steel penetrator being ever so slightly off center.

700 yards is a long way to shoot with it, how was the wind?


-K
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 9:36:18 PM EDT
although not M855 i have found that the spanish Santa Barbara SS109 is just as good as the BH reloads i had been shooting for service rifle. i bought 2000rds of it and saved some money. i was shooting a bone stock MT6601.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 7:27:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By remedy: one guy said he won a match shooting M855 at long distances, I think it was 500 yards with irons.


He's either full of crap or nobody he shot against could hit the broadside of a barn. Let's just say that no one who is serious about doing well in highpower would ever consider using M855 at any distance, let alone at 500 yards or more.

What kind of groups were you getting? Now, be honest here.

The combination of rifle/ammo accuracy plus your holding ability cannot exceed 2 MOA to clean the 600 yard NRA HP target. That assumes you can read the wind very, very well. Most shooters strive to get 1 MOA or better loads for 600 yards in HP.

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 9:04:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 9:06:20 AM EDT by remedy]

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

He's either full of crap or nobody he shot against could hit the broadside of a barn. Let's just say that no one who is serious about doing well in highpower would ever consider using M855 at any distance, let alone at 500 yards or more.

What kind of groups were you getting? Now, be honest here.

The combination of rifle/ammo accuracy plus your holding ability cannot exceed 2 MOA to clean the 600 yard NRA HP target. That assumes you can read the wind very, very well. Most shooters strive to get 1 MOA or better loads for 600 yards in HP.




He's a very well known long range shooter at our range. He's always there, shooting with his modified AR's or 308's. I believe him, and I'm skeptical of everything. He also mentioned something about a rapid-fire match and winning with M855.

It was a perfectly still day with some mirage out in the field due to the heat. I was shooting within 16 inches at 700yds, all my shots were landing around the feet or just over the head of this groundhog which was like 16" tall and I believe 6-8" wide. I clipped him a couple times. I was able to pepper an orange football helmet at 500 yds easily with M855. The thing I noticed was that the M855 used less BDC in my ACOG TA01 4x32 than the other ammo I was shooting. The M855 basically took less compensation for distance than the XM193 and the BH BB 75gr OTM, which was the worst.

I was also shooting within 16" at 700yds but getting many wild flyers with the XM193. I was able to very consistantly hit orange football helmets at 500 and 560 yards with both M855 and XM193.

I was being spotted on most of my shots Sunday.


- rem
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 9:29:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 9:31:31 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
FWIW, I'm SWO on this topic.

ANYONE chosing to use M855 in a 1/9 twist 16" AR15 past 500 yards and claiming "how accurately" they shoot, (without actually giving any definative "group-size" information in his post) instead of using say the 69grn. SMKs (either Fed or BH) is about a half a bubble off of plum in my book.

Even the best M855 I have, (which is IMI, btw) can't hold 2 MOA @ 700 yards outta my scoped long range 24" CR6724, that'll shoot 4" - 10 shot groups (in good air) with my custom 77grn SMKs.

And your judgement that all of the rounds stayed inside of 16" at that range was base on what????

eyeballing from a 4x ACOG?

Mike

ps - btw, unlike myself, (who does not claim to be no great shot, as I just flat don't have the eyes) there are some guys here that can shoot and trust me, this post, most certainly probably has 'em...

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 9:35:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By remedy:
I was able to very consistantly hit orange football helmets at 500 and 560 yards with both M855 and XM193.




You got something against football?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 9:36:17 AM EDT
How do you like your ACOG just ordered one...didn't have them back in '69 hear rhey ar good just want an opinion....thks
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 10:50:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 10:52:43 AM EDT by jonathon]
Right....

700 yards

16" or so group size..

1x9 twist

M855

16" barrel





Okay okay, maybe the BS flag is a bit strong.. but is anyone else having a hard time adding this up??
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 11:40:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 11:41:33 AM EDT by remedy]
Well I had two and sometimes 3 guys spotting for me and 2 other shooters, and we were all taking turns shooting at that target and range.

I have no reason to lie, frankly I was surprised as hell myself. I'm only passing on my experience and observations here. I could clearly see the dirt plume where my rounds were landing next to the orange silhouette. The spotters would also yell out where my rounds were landing.

You're welcome to come to my range and see for yourself, I'll be there all day thursday bringing a few mags of M855.

I am not a sharp-shooter nor do I claim to be, I was simply fooling around with my rifle to see if I could get anywhere near the target at that range. I have been experimenting with various ammo out of my 16" Bushy 1/9 M4 with an ACOG TA01, I had another large thread with photos and videos of me shooting long range with XM193 from a week before in the general AR discussions. Here is the link to it, you can see my range for yourself:

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=262872

I should have brought some M855 that weekend, but just didn't think to try it out. This week I will film myself putting M855 in my mag and shooting long range (700 yds) at the orange silhouette of the prairie dog, you can clearly see the dirt plumes around it when the bullet hits the hill. It is very sandy, this is Florida afterall and the weather and visibility right now is excellent. I'm even bringing a better sony camcorder, not my digital camera which I used previously.

So claim "BS" all you want but it only makes you look like an asshole and it is unecessary.


- rem
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 11:45:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By demigod:

Originally Posted By remedy:
I was able to very consistantly hit orange football helmets at 500 and 560 yards with both M855 and XM193.




You got something against football?




Someone brought like 20 orange football helmets that were old and no longer being used by some school team or something. They placed them all over the field at various ranges, some of them on the berms and hills. They are fun to shoot at since they are easy to see and they rock back and forth when you hit them.


- rem
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 11:46:56 AM EDT
The Spec for M855 is 3-5 MOA. At 500 even with a COM aim there is a chance of not hitting the chest.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 3:13:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 3:17:16 PM EDT by SWO_daddy]

Originally Posted By remedy:
Well I had two and sometimes 3 guys spotting for me and 2 other shooters, and we were all taking turns shooting at that target and range.

I have no reason to lie, frankly I was surprised as hell myself. I'm only passing on my experience and observations here. I could clearly see the dirt plume where my rounds were landing next to the orange silhouette. The spotters would also yell out where my rounds were landing.

You're welcome to come to my range and see for yourself, I'll be there all day thursday bringing a few mags of M855.

I am not a sharp-shooter nor do I claim to be, I was simply fooling around with my rifle to see if I could get anywhere near the target at that range. I have been experimenting with various ammo out of my 16" Bushy 1/9 M4 with an ACOG TA01, I had another large thread with photos and videos of me shooting long range with XM193 from a week before in the general AR discussions. Here is the link to it, you can see my range for yourself:

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=262872

I should have brought some M855 that weekend, but just didn't think to try it out. This week I will film myself putting M855 in my mag and shooting long range (700 yds) at the orange silhouette of the prairie dog, you can clearly see the dirt plumes around it when the bullet hits the hill. It is very sandy, this is Florida afterall and the weather and visibility right now is excellent. I'm even bringing a better sony camcorder, not my digital camera which I used previously.

So claim "BS" all you want but it only makes you look like an asshole and it is unecessary.


- rem



Instead of shooting helmets and groundhogs, why don't you buy a pack of 600 yard highpower target repair centers and shoot one up?

Then we can all see what M855 can do.



$30 for a pack of 50
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 3:14:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STLRN:
The Spec for M855 is 3-5 MOA. At 500 even with a COM aim there is a chance of not hitting the chest.


That's why I am so skeptical of this super-duper long range shooter's claim of winning matches with that stuff.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 3:33:35 PM EDT
remedy are you near daytona?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 4:18:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 4:23:00 PM EDT by JJREA]
Remedy, I believe you.

First off, just because the spec of M855 is 3-5 moa doesn't mean every rifle will shoot it that way. He might have a rifle that likes it. I say this over and over and over again that every barrel has ammo it does and doesn't like. Now obviously the more quality the ammo the more chance it has to be accurate, but price isn't always the only factor. But the recce upper I gave my dad did not like Red box 69 grainers over Q3131A. Go figure but I speak the truth.
Secondly, mr. wilson is usually a prickly pear.
Thirdly, it's possible he got an extra good crop and may not always enjoy such accuracy with M855
Fourthly, some of the DM's in the marines were shooting 4x acogs on their A4's and claiming to get hits longer than this with M855.

Remedy, I believe and I'm glad you had a good day at the range. Don't let the experts burst your bubble and I thank you for sharing.

I've heard many times that M855 just isn't an accurate round and I'm not denying it. But the marines still qualify with it at 500 meters. So it has to have some level of accuracy. And I'll say it again, every barrel likes different ammo. I wish I could afford the stuff to try some myself.

Edited to add: I forgot to mention, the military didn't go to 1/7 for M855. M856 is much longer. That of course is right in the ammo oracle.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:36:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Instead of shooting helmets and groundhogs, why don't you buy a pack of 600 yard highpower target repair centers and shoot one up?

Then we can all see what M855 can do.

www.nationaltarget.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/MR-1c.gif

$30 for a pack of 50



Unfortunately the farthest we can post paper targets is 550 yards, and it is a pain in the ass because you have to borrow the golf cart or a car, so I rather prefer to shoot the buckets, helmets, balls and metal silhouettes at my range. If i have the opportunity I will post some paper at 550 yards next time and video it. Really wont make a huge difference as far as the results.


- rem
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:58:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By remedy:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Instead of shooting helmets and groundhogs, why don't you buy a pack of 600 yard highpower target repair centers and shoot one up?

Then we can all see what M855 can do.

www.nationaltarget.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/MR-1c.gif

$30 for a pack of 50



Unfortunately the farthest we can post paper targets is 550 yards, and it is a pain in the ass because you have to borrow the golf cart or a car, so I rather prefer to shoot the buckets, helmets, balls and metal silhouettes at my range. If i have the opportunity I will post some paper at 550 yards next time and video it. Really wont make a huge difference as far as the results.


- rem



Damn guy, when it's time to move back to 600 yards from the 300 yard line, my brother hauls a cart of stuff and I jog with a scope stand in each hand. I jog so the retired folks don't give me shit for holding up the line. Somehow, they are alreday there way before we are, and we're in the mid 20s. And when I have to go to the pits from the 600 yard line, I jog too. Golf cart? Car? damn guy, I'm sorry if you have some sort of physical disability; otherwise I encourage you to try my patterned diet. I call it "holding a 17lb rifle relay still for at least half an hour every day, plus running." you can eat whatever you want! it's totally sweet. bang out some push-ups too. I learned it from a 60+ year old High Master with throat cancer.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:00:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By warren-hpf:

Damn guy, when it's time to move back to 600 yards from the 300 yard line, my brother hauls a cart of stuff and I jog with a scope stand in each hand. I jog so the retired folks don't give me shit for holding up the line. Somehow, they are alreday there way before we are, and we're in the mid 20s. And when I have to go to the pits from the 600 yard line, I jog too. Golf cart? Car? damn guy, I'm sorry if you have some sort of physical disability; otherwise I encourage you to try my patterned diet. I call it "holding a 17lb rifle relay still for at least half an hour every day, plus running." you can eat whatever you want! it's totally sweet. bang out some push-ups too. I learned it from a 60+ year old High Master with throat cancer.



lol, I can run the paper out there, but I would just be holding everyone up and they actually wouldn't let me do it. I can borrow the golf cart and all that but personally don't like to deal with it. Not to mention, paper at 500+ yards is a little harder to make out in a 4x32 scope than orange things and large white and blue jugs on a brown dirt background. Know what i mean... I need to find some large green or orange targets for those ranges.


- rem
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:49:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By remedy: Not to mention, paper at 500+ yards is a little harder to make out in a 4x32 scope than orange things and large white and blue jugs on a brown dirt background. Know what i mean... I need to find some large green or orange targets for those ranges.


- rem



No, I don't know what you mean. Highpower shooters shoot the target I showed you at 600 yards with iron sights.

You have a 4X scope, so you should be about out of excuses.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 10:18:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 10:21:49 AM EDT by remedy]

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
No, I don't know what you mean. Highpower shooters shoot the target I showed you at 600 yards with iron sights.

You have a 4X scope, so you should be about out of excuses.



Yeah except they probably don't suffer from iritis in their strong eye like I do and have generally not so great vision. I don't shoot guns to try to prove some elitist point, I shoot to have fun. If I can't see what I am shooting at it really isn't a lot of fun for me. I cant even make out 500 yard orange targets with irons simply because of my vision. I'm not some professional marksman, I'm a guy that goes to the range and shoots casually for fun. Maybe you need to argue this shit wth someone else.





- rem
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 12:18:53 PM EDT
Santa Barbra SS109 is Match Grade??

Ive shot LC M855,IMI M855. WIN M855,S&BSS109
But the Santa Barbra shoots the Tightest out of my 2 BushWackers
Ive shot under inch groups at 100 yard with a 10x scope!
I dont know if the steel penetrator effects accuracy or not?
But the Spanish sure got it down pat!
Also SS109 Bullet Prints Tighter groups than M193 . Thats in My Rifles
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 12:24:47 PM EDT
Thanks for the post rem. I have some of that stuff from ammoman and was planning to get more. Encouragement is always good for a good thing.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:21:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By remedy:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
No, I don't know what you mean. Highpower shooters shoot the target I showed you at 600 yards with iron sights.

You have a 4X scope, so you should be about out of excuses.



Yeah except they probably don't suffer from iritis in their strong eye like I do and have generally not so great vision. I don't shoot guns to try to prove some elitist point, I shoot to have fun. If I can't see what I am shooting at it really isn't a lot of fun for me. I cant even make out 500 yard orange targets with irons simply because of my vision. I'm not some professional marksman, I'm a guy that goes to the range and shoots casually for fun. Maybe you need to argue this shit wth someone else.


itrebel.com/media/downloads/eye1.jpg


- rem


Then I humbly offer my apology and hope it is accepted.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 2:28:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 2:29:00 PM EDT by billyb]
I do not shoot it in a match as I load my own. But I do know people that shoot it @ 100 and 200 NRA reduced targets HP service rifle and do ok with it.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:48:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Then I humbly offer my apology and hope it is accepted.



Accepted. No problem.


- rem
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:42:33 PM EDT
I have had outstanding results with M855. Other ex-mil personnel I know said the same. It is pretty f--king sad when someone has to go to such lengths as Remedy to prove an expierence they had with a type of ammo.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 8:42:28 PM EDT
+1

I read this entire post simply because I couldn't believe the grief laid down on this guy, just for saying he had good luck with a certian ammo, on a certian day. There are enough people out there doing their best to make sure we don't have the right to enjoy shooting, we don't need to eat our own over something like this.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 11:17:42 PM EDT
+1

As a Marine I only shot the 55 grain stuff but I have buddies still in the Corps shooting decent groups at 3 and 500 yards. They say this is a superior round to what we used to shoot for a lot of reasons.

Also, I happened to buy some of Ammoman's current batch pre-christmas and it is shooting extremely well. Good batch, if you're shooting this type of ammo I recomend picking some up before it's gone +2

hug.gif
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