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Posted: 9/30/2014 7:51:27 AM EST
Sorry if this is a silly clone question, but I am not all that familiar with the military M4 specs. I plan on building an M4 clone and was wondering if my parts list is accurate.

14.5" pinned A2 M4 upper
Aimpoint M2 (or PRO) in what mount? or EOTech (not sure which model was issued?)
KAC micro BUIS
KAC M4 drop in rail
LMT/B5 SOPMOD stock
Surefire Scout light
KAC VFG (is a Tango Down an issue item?)
CQD end plate sling mount

Thanks for humoring me.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 8:06:15 AM EST
Tag, for interest.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 8:22:50 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 9:40:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2014 9:41:02 AM EST by dangerdan]
14.5" barrel pinned extended A2
Or 14.7" barrel with pinned A2
Or 14.5" SBR
Or just get a 16"

KAC carbine RAS
KAC VFG
No BUIS
M4 TA31F/RCO
Plain carbine stock
No sling plate



Link Posted: 9/30/2014 9:52:38 AM EST
Thanks, i couldn't find that thread.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AaronL15:
All the info you need
View Quote

Link Posted: 9/30/2014 9:53:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2014 9:58:21 AM EST by KILLERB6]
What Dangerdan said plus the Matech rear BUIS.

Your standard issue M4 is going to have an Aimpoint CompM4/S (M68 COO) or an EOTech 533.A65 (SU-231 PEQ).
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 9:55:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2014 9:59:27 AM EST by dangerdan]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
What Dangerdan said plus the Matech rear BUIS.

Your standard issue M4 is going to have an Aimpoint CompM4/S (M68 COO), or ACOG or an EOTech 553 (SU-231 PEQ).
View Quote


FIFY

I have even seen EoTech 552 issued (Its just like the 512, but NV compatible)
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 9:59:30 AM EST
Pretty much good to go, I've seen TD grips downrange with SF types. I don't know if they are standard issue so to speak. 14.5" w/pinned A2 alone won't do the trick for making it legal. Either an extra washer behind it or use a 14.7" barrel, I know PSA sells 14.7" barrels and uppers from time to time.

Here's some of the common stuff I've seen, mostly SOPMOD:

Optics:
Aimpoint as mentioned, sometimes LaRue mounts
EOTech 553 or EXPS3-4
Various ACOG Models
Various Elcan (not as common)

BUIS:
KAC - Several Models
MATech BUIS
Carry Handle

Stocks:
Crane SOPMOD
Magpul CTR and even some MOE
VLTOR iMod Stocks (Less Common)
Plenty of CAR and M4 stocks also

Pistol Grips:
Standard
TD
Magpul MIAD

Weapon Lights:
Too many Surefires to mention, I like the scout and mini scout myself
Insight M3/M3X/M6X

Foregrips:
KAC, TD, CQD

End Plates:
CQD (usually also has their front mount as well)
Plain jane end plates

Rail Systems:
KAC RAS (Most Common by far)
DD RISII and RISII FSP Rails

Mags:
Standard USGI (Center, OKay, Brownells, D&H etc,)
H&K High Reliability Maritime (falling out of favor, I like em though)
PMAGs (usually individual or unit purchase)

Basically you have a lot of possible configurations to be somewhat 'authentic' especially if you go with the SOPMPOD Block parts list.

Link Posted: 9/30/2014 10:31:08 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dangerdan:


FIFY

I have even seen EoTech 552 issued (Its just like the 512, but NV compatible)
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dangerdan:
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
What Dangerdan said plus the Matech rear BUIS.

Your standard issue M4 is going to have an Aimpoint CompM4/S (M68 COO), or ACOG or an EOTech 553 (SU-231 PEQ).


FIFY

I have even seen EoTech 552 issued (Its just like the 512, but NV compatible)


True, but far and away, most standard M4s are going to have one of the two optics I mentioned (one of which I misspelled/typo'd); ACOGs are far less common.

If you add all of the "seen in the wild" configurations/gear then you might as well whatever you want because someone somewhere has done it.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 10:43:04 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:


True, but far and away, most standard M4s are going to have one of the two optics I mentioned (one of which I misspelled/typo'd); ACOGs are far less common.

If you add all of the "seen in the wild" configurations/gear then you might as well whatever you want because someone somewhere has done it.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Originally Posted By dangerdan:
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
What Dangerdan said plus the Matech rear BUIS.

Your standard issue M4 is going to have an Aimpoint CompM4/S (M68 COO), or ACOG or an EOTech 553 (SU-231 PEQ).


FIFY

I have even seen EoTech 552 issued (Its just like the 512, but NV compatible)


True, but far and away, most standard M4s are going to have one of the two optics I mentioned (one of which I misspelled/typo'd); ACOGs are far less common.

If you add all of the "seen in the wild" configurations/gear then you might as well whatever you want because someone somewhere has done it.


You must not be a Marine....
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 11:26:03 AM EST
All of our M4s have ACOGs, minus the 320 equipped weapons which have the M68, not sure why that is actually.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 1:53:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2014 1:59:42 PM EST by KILLERB6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dangerdan:


You must not be a Marine....
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dangerdan:
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Originally Posted By dangerdan:
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
What Dangerdan said plus the Matech rear BUIS.

Your standard issue M4 is going to have an Aimpoint CompM4/S (M68 COO), or ACOG or an EOTech 553 (SU-231 PEQ).


FIFY

I have even seen EoTech 552 issued (Its just like the 512, but NV compatible)


True, but far and away, most standard M4s are going to have one of the two optics I mentioned (one of which I misspelled/typo'd); ACOGs are far less common.


If you add all of the "seen in the wild" configurations/gear then you might as well whatever you want because someone somewhere has done it.


You must not be a Marine....


Correct (not a Marine).

And yes, the Marines have a lot more ACOGs...and most of them are on M16s.

OP Kavants is looking for a little guidance on making an M4 clone...not every single option that ever has or possibly could be spotted on an issue weapon in theater.

If he wants to clone an Army issue M4, (as stated) the vast majority of them have a RAS, Matech and COMPM4.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 2:25:57 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:


Correct (not a Marine).

And yes, the Marines have a lot more ACOGs...and most of them are on M16s.

OP Kavants is looking for a little guidance on making an M4 clone...not every single option that ever has or possibly could be spotted on an issue weapon in theater.

If he wants to clone an Army issue M4, (as stated) the vast majority of them have a RAS, Matech and COMPM4.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Originally Posted By dangerdan:
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Originally Posted By dangerdan:
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
What Dangerdan said plus the Matech rear BUIS.

Your standard issue M4 is going to have an Aimpoint CompM4/S (M68 COO), or ACOG or an EOTech 553 (SU-231 PEQ).


FIFY

I have even seen EoTech 552 issued (Its just like the 512, but NV compatible)


True, but far and away, most standard M4s are going to have one of the two optics I mentioned (one of which I misspelled/typo'd); ACOGs are far less common.


If you add all of the "seen in the wild" configurations/gear then you might as well whatever you want because someone somewhere has done it.


You must not be a Marine....


Correct (not a Marine).

And yes, the Marines have a lot more ACOGs...and most of them are on M16s.

OP Kavants is looking for a little guidance on making an M4 clone...not every single option that ever has or possibly could be spotted on an issue weapon in theater.

If he wants to clone an Army issue M4, (as stated) the vast majority of them have a RAS, Matech and COMPM4.


OP never asked about the Army.
All M4s in the Marines have ACOGs. The only exception is MARSOC.
Link Posted: 9/30/2014 2:35:28 PM EST
I wasn't very specific in my OP. I'm just looking for basic guidance about issued items that would be correct on an M4 in service in any branch. I understand that the various branches have their own nuances. The link to the thread provided above has lots of useful info. I do appreciate all the input from former members of our military as well. Thank you all for your service to our country.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:

Correct (not a Marine).

And yes, the Marines have a lot more ACOGs...and most of them are on M16s.

OP Kavants is looking for a little guidance on making an M4 clone...not every single option that ever has or possibly could be spotted on an issue weapon in theater.

If he wants to clone an Army issue M4, (as stated) the vast majority of them have a RAS, Matech and COMPM4.
View Quote

Link Posted: 10/1/2014 1:32:34 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dangerdan:


OP never asked about the Army.
All M4s in the Marines have ACOGs. The only exception is MARSOC.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dangerdan:
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Originally Posted By dangerdan:
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Originally Posted By dangerdan:

FIFY

I have even seen EoTech 552 issued (Its just like the 512, but NV compatible)


True, but far and away, most standard M4s are going to have one of the two optics I mentioned (one of which I misspelled/typo'd); ACOGs are far less common.


If you add all of the "seen in the wild" configurations/gear then you might as well whatever you want because someone somewhere has done it.


You must not be a Marine....


Correct (not a Marine).

And yes, the Marines have a lot more ACOGs...and most of them are on M16s.

OP Kavants is looking for a little guidance on making an M4 clone...not every single option that ever has or possibly could be spotted on an issue weapon in theater.

If he wants to clone an Army issue M4, (as stated) the vast majority of them have a RAS, Matech and COMPM4.


OP never asked about the Army.
All M4s in the Marines have ACOGs. The only exception is MARSOC.


Exactly. OP asked a simple question, instead of a (my) simple answer we (collectively) dumped every known/seen/possible configuration on him.

And most Marines (in a force that's a third or so the size of the Army) have M16s...so, my statement still stands as the most common standard issue M4 config.

And this is why the clone threads are f'ed up...so much noise few know what they are actually building.
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 5:28:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2014 5:29:57 AM EST by DocBach]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:

True, but far and away, most standard M4s are going to have one of the two optics I mentioned (one of which I misspelled/typo'd); ACOGs are far less common.

If you add all of the "seen in the wild" configurations/gear then you might as well whatever you want because someone somewhere has done it.
View Quote


the last unit I was in (a national guard mechanized infantry battalion) had 100% TA-31RCO ACOG's on their M4s. The unit I was in before had a good mix of Aimpoints (mostly M4 models, a couple M2's still floating around) and ACOGs. Surefire M952s with the ARMS mounts for white light, MaTech BUIS on all the rifles. Very few had SOPMOD stocks, when we first got issued M4's to replace the M16A4's we had, we had the SOPMOD stocks on the rifles with the first ACOGs we got on them (which were originally just given to TL for PID purposes), so we just called them "team leader stocks" because none of us had heard of LMT or SOPMOD stuff.
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 8:28:47 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Exactly. OP asked a simple question, instead of a (my) simple answer we (collectively) dumped every known/seen/possible configuration on him.

And most Marines (in a force that's a third or so the size of the Army) have M16s...so, my statement still stands as the most common standard issue M4 config.

And this is why the clone threads are f'ed up...so much noise few know what they are actually building.
View Quote

The reason clone threads are f'ed up is because some members think they know it all, when in fact they don't. Just because someone is issued a CQBR doesn't mean they are experts on a matter.

You aren't a Marine, never will be a Marine, so commenting on how and why Marines have and do things shouldn't be your concern.

You stick with the Army side of the conversation and let the Marines take care of their side of the conversation. I'm willing to bet the Marine's know more about the Marines then you do.

And as already stated by Doc, several Army units deployed with mostly, or completely, ACOGs.
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 8:53:40 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TurbineGuy:

And as already stated by Doc, several Army units deployed with mostly, or completely, ACOGs.
View Quote


When we last deployed in 2008, we had mostly aimpoints -- team leaders and some squad leaders and a couple of us who went to SDM got ACOG's, rest got aimpoints. When we were ramping up for a Afghanistan deployment we got ACOG's for just about everyone. When that got cancelled they kind of got passed out to other units in the state who were deploying so we had a pretty even mix of ACOG's and aimpoints. Didn't see a single EOTech issued, and the couple people who had personal ones were told they had to take them off because the COC didn't want Joe to think the shit he was issued wasn't good enough.

It was pretty weird that my last unit had so many ACOG's. They're part of the CA ARNG being in CA but they are organizationally under the 81ST BCT from Washington -- both states look at them like red headed step children and most of their funding went to the Bradleys, yet they had ACOG's for all of the M4's in the arms room.
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 9:08:43 AM EST
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Originally Posted By DocBach:


When we last deployed in 2008, we had mostly aimpoints -- team leaders and some squad leaders and a couple of us who went to SDM got ACOG's, rest got aimpoints. When we were ramping up for a Afghanistan deployment we got ACOG's for just about everyone. When that got cancelled they kind of got passed out to other units in the state who were deploying so we had a pretty even mix of ACOG's and aimpoints. Didn't see a single EOTech issued, and the couple people who had personal ones were told they had to take them off because the COC didn't want Joe to think the shit he was issued wasn't good enough.

It was pretty weird that my last unit had so many ACOG's. They're part of the CA ARNG being in CA but they are organizationally under the 81ST BCT from Washington -- both states look at them like red headed step children and most of their funding went to the Bradleys, yet they had ACOG's for all of the M4's in the arms room.
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Originally Posted By DocBach:
Originally Posted By TurbineGuy:

And as already stated by Doc, several Army units deployed with mostly, or completely, ACOGs.


When we last deployed in 2008, we had mostly aimpoints -- team leaders and some squad leaders and a couple of us who went to SDM got ACOG's, rest got aimpoints. When we were ramping up for a Afghanistan deployment we got ACOG's for just about everyone. When that got cancelled they kind of got passed out to other units in the state who were deploying so we had a pretty even mix of ACOG's and aimpoints. Didn't see a single EOTech issued, and the couple people who had personal ones were told they had to take them off because the COC didn't want Joe to think the shit he was issued wasn't good enough.

It was pretty weird that my last unit had so many ACOG's. They're part of the CA ARNG being in CA but they are organizationally under the 81ST BCT from Washington -- both states look at them like red headed step children and most of their funding went to the Bradleys, yet they had ACOG's for all of the M4's in the arms room.

Did they give those with ACOGs any training for them? They aren't hard to "master", but they do have a higher learning curve than a red dot.

I think everyone should be issued ACOGs with offset Aimpoint Micros, simply because I prefer that setup to any other so far.
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 9:17:18 AM EST
Not really for most of the guys. We went over them pretty extensively in SDM, so those of us who went passed what we knew down to our platoons.

It was pretty funny, though. The First Army guys doing our training had no idea how to train on the ACOG's -- one of them picked my weapon up during a demonstration and recommended I turn it off to save the battery, hence my sig.
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 9:24:26 AM EST
In 2005 I carried this
14.5
Carry handle
KAC VFG
Specter Sling

In 2006 I carried this
14.5
ACOG
MATech BUIS
KAC VFG
Specter Sling
Surefire 951

This was in the Marine Corps infantry, no one was issued aimpoints or eotechs in my unit. No one had different stocks issued to them. Anyone with cool guy stuff had purchased it on their own.
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 9:24:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2014 9:24:50 AM EST by TurbineGuy]
Doc, Marines can be just as bad. I have a friend who is a Marine sniper that bought a SCAR17 and couldn't get the Eotech he had on it to work correctly, so he sent me a pic and asked what I thought.

He had the damn Eotech mounted backwards.

Sometimes we are our own worst enemy.
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 11:58:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2014 12:16:42 PM EST by jrs93accord]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BOONEA:
In 2005 I carried this
14.5
Carry handle
KAC VFG
Specter Sling

In 2006 I carried this
14.5
ACOG
MATech BUIS
KAC VFG
Specter Sling
Surefire 951

This was in the Marine Corps infantry, no one was issued aimpoints or eotechs in my unit. No one had different stocks issued to them. Anyone with cool guy stuff had purchased it on their own.
View Quote



This is what happens in the field. You get issued your M4 (or A4) and, in most cases, you end up changing some things to make it more comfortable to carry and shoot. This is why you see a variety of buttstocks on the carbines, MAGPUL PMAGs, slings, and optics. Even with the ACOGS, you will usually see three different ones used (TA01NSN, TA31RCOM4, and TA31RCOA4). Same goes for Aimpoints. You could see a mix of M4Ss, M2s, and M3s. You coiuld even see an Aimpoint PRO or two being used. Same with weaponlights and VFGs. From this point, you can then venture in the the world of the M4A1 and SOPMOD accessories. I have several M4 setups that range from the base model up to SOPMOD versions. How you build your M4 will depend on the version you want to build and the richness of your wallet.

Basic M4


Colt LE6920 w/ TA01NSN


Sabre Defense 14.5" w/ TA31RCOM4


CMTS/CMMG 14.5" SOCOM w/EOTech 553


LMT/CMMG M4 w/ Aimpoint M2


Quentin Defense w/ Aimpoint M3
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 3:03:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2014 5:43:16 PM EST by DocBach]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jrs93accord:

This is what happens in the field. You get issued your M4 (or A4) and, in most cases, you end up changing some things to make it more comfortable to carry and shoot. This is why you see a variety of buttstocks on the carbines, MAGPUL PMAGs, slings, and optics. Even with the ACOGS, you will usually see three different ones used (TA01NSN, TA31RCOM4, and TA31RCOA4). Same goes for Aimpoints. You could see a mix of M4Ss, M2s, and M3s. You coiuld even see an Aimpoint PRO or two being used. Same with weaponlights and VFGs. From this point, you can then venture in the the world of the M4A1 and SOPMOD accessories. I have several M4 setups that range from the base model up to SOPMOD versions. How you build your M4 will depend on the version you want to build and the richness of your wallet.
View Quote


Except for more realistically, you get issued your M4, and you get chewed out if you try to change anything out on your rifle because your commander realizes that joe knows nothing about quality gear, so they make you keep everything they issue you on your rifle to prevent joe from sticking a $50 walmart "sniper" scope on his rifle to go with his condor knock-off plate carrier without soft armor, and to make accountability for sensitive items easier.

If you want to make a realistic clone of an Army M4, and not an M4A1, etc, it'll look like this;

Colt 6921
Knight's M4 RAS
MaTech BUIS
Aimpoint M68 (Comp M2 or M4, M3 and especially not the PRO was never issued), or TA01NSN/TA31M4RCO/M150 ACOG (I saw some 25th ID guys and 1st CAV guys with the NSN's still in 2009, but most other units use the M150 or RCO versions now)
Knight's rail panels and vertical grip or a grip pod
standard Colt buttstocks -- either original CAR stock (increasingly rare these days), the newer "LE" style stock, or also very rare an LMT SOPMOD
Surefire M951/M952/M600C weapon light (M600C was very rare to see as well, the MSARNG had them in Iraq when I was with them in 2009)
Insight AN/PEQ-2A or AN/PEQ-15
Basic Colt sling (most people changed it out on personal preference, I had a specforce mamba on account it was the only one sold on our PX)

If you aren't SOCOM you aren't going to get SOPMOD accessories, and if you ever work with probably 95% of officers they will freak the fuck out if you change the above formula, even if what you are adding is cooler than what the Army gave you.
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 4:16:56 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DocBach:


Except for more realistically, you get issued your M4, and you get chewed out if you try to change anything out on your rifle because your commander realizes that joe knows nothing about quality gear, so they make you keep everything they issue you on your rifle to prevent joe from sticking a $50 walmart "sniper" scope on his rifle to go with his condor knock-off plate carrier without soft armor, and to make accountability for sensitive items easier.

If you want to make a realistic clone of an Army M4, and not an M4A1, etc, it'll look like this;

Colt 6921
Knight's M4 RAS
MaTech BUIS
Aimpoint M68 (Comp M2 or M4, M3 and especially not the PRO was never issued), or TA01NSN/TA31M4RCO/M150 ACOG (I saw some 25th ID guys and 1st CAV guys with them still in 2009, but most other units use the M150 or RCO versions now)
Knight's rail panels and vertical grip or a grip pod
standard Colt buttstocks -- either original CAR stock (increasingly rare these days), the newer "LE" style stock, or also very rare an LMT SOPMOD
Surefire M951/M952/M600C weapon light (M600C was very rare to see as well, the MSARNG had them in Iraq when I was with them in 2009)
Insight AN/PEQ-2A or AN/PEQ-15
Basic Colt sling (most people changed it out on personal preference, I had a specforce mamba on account it was the only one sold on our PX)

If you aren't SOCOM you aren't going to get SOPMOD accessories, and if you ever work with probably 95% of officers they will freak the fuck out if you change the above formula, even if what you are adding is cooler than what the Army gave you.
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Originally Posted By DocBach:
Originally Posted By jrs93accord:

This is what happens in the field. You get issued your M4 (or A4) and, in most cases, you end up changing some things to make it more comfortable to carry and shoot. This is why you see a variety of buttstocks on the carbines, MAGPUL PMAGs, slings, and optics. Even with the ACOGS, you will usually see three different ones used (TA01NSN, TA31RCOM4, and TA31RCOA4). Same goes for Aimpoints. You could see a mix of M4Ss, M2s, and M3s. You coiuld even see an Aimpoint PRO or two being used. Same with weaponlights and VFGs. From this point, you can then venture in the the world of the M4A1 and SOPMOD accessories. I have several M4 setups that range from the base model up to SOPMOD versions. How you build your M4 will depend on the version you want to build and the richness of your wallet.


Except for more realistically, you get issued your M4, and you get chewed out if you try to change anything out on your rifle because your commander realizes that joe knows nothing about quality gear, so they make you keep everything they issue you on your rifle to prevent joe from sticking a $50 walmart "sniper" scope on his rifle to go with his condor knock-off plate carrier without soft armor, and to make accountability for sensitive items easier.

If you want to make a realistic clone of an Army M4, and not an M4A1, etc, it'll look like this;

Colt 6921
Knight's M4 RAS
MaTech BUIS
Aimpoint M68 (Comp M2 or M4, M3 and especially not the PRO was never issued), or TA01NSN/TA31M4RCO/M150 ACOG (I saw some 25th ID guys and 1st CAV guys with them still in 2009, but most other units use the M150 or RCO versions now)
Knight's rail panels and vertical grip or a grip pod
standard Colt buttstocks -- either original CAR stock (increasingly rare these days), the newer "LE" style stock, or also very rare an LMT SOPMOD
Surefire M951/M952/M600C weapon light (M600C was very rare to see as well, the MSARNG had them in Iraq when I was with them in 2009)
Insight AN/PEQ-2A or AN/PEQ-15
Basic Colt sling (most people changed it out on personal preference, I had a specforce mamba on account it was the only one sold on our PX)

If you aren't SOCOM you aren't going to get SOPMOD accessories, and if you ever work with probably 95% of officers they will freak the fuck out if you change the above formula, even if what you are adding is cooler than what the Army gave you.


Yup. I got royally bitched at because I swapped my charging handle for another charging handle with a PRI Big Latch on it.

Luckily, they guy doing the bitching was a Corporal (Bn Armory). As I was a lowly Lance Cooley, my Squad Leader (a short, salt-n-pepper haired Italian who was also a Corporal) chewed his ass for being a POG
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 5:42:34 PM EST
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Originally Posted By dangerdan:


Yup. I got royally bitched at because I swapped my charging handle for another charging handle with a PRI Big Latch on it.

Luckily, they guy doing the bitching was a Corporal (Bn Armory). As I was a lowly Lance Cooley, my Squad Leader (a short, salt-n-pepper haired Italian who was also a Corporal) chewed his ass for being a POG
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Originally Posted By dangerdan:
Originally Posted By DocBach:
Originally Posted By jrs93accord:

This is what happens in the field. You get issued your M4 (or A4) and, in most cases, you end up changing some things to make it more comfortable to carry and shoot. This is why you see a variety of buttstocks on the carbines, MAGPUL PMAGs, slings, and optics. Even with the ACOGS, you will usually see three different ones used (TA01NSN, TA31RCOM4, and TA31RCOA4). Same goes for Aimpoints. You could see a mix of M4Ss, M2s, and M3s. You coiuld even see an Aimpoint PRO or two being used. Same with weaponlights and VFGs. From this point, you can then venture in the the world of the M4A1 and SOPMOD accessories. I have several M4 setups that range from the base model up to SOPMOD versions. How you build your M4 will depend on the version you want to build and the richness of your wallet.


Except for more realistically, you get issued your M4, and you get chewed out if you try to change anything out on your rifle because your commander realizes that joe knows nothing about quality gear, so they make you keep everything they issue you on your rifle to prevent joe from sticking a $50 walmart "sniper" scope on his rifle to go with his condor knock-off plate carrier without soft armor, and to make accountability for sensitive items easier.

If you want to make a realistic clone of an Army M4, and not an M4A1, etc, it'll look like this;

Colt 6921
Knight's M4 RAS
MaTech BUIS
Aimpoint M68 (Comp M2 or M4, M3 and especially not the PRO was never issued), or TA01NSN/TA31M4RCO/M150 ACOG (I saw some 25th ID guys and 1st CAV guys with them still in 2009, but most other units use the M150 or RCO versions now)
Knight's rail panels and vertical grip or a grip pod
standard Colt buttstocks -- either original CAR stock (increasingly rare these days), the newer "LE" style stock, or also very rare an LMT SOPMOD
Surefire M951/M952/M600C weapon light (M600C was very rare to see as well, the MSARNG had them in Iraq when I was with them in 2009)
Insight AN/PEQ-2A or AN/PEQ-15
Basic Colt sling (most people changed it out on personal preference, I had a specforce mamba on account it was the only one sold on our PX)

If you aren't SOCOM you aren't going to get SOPMOD accessories, and if you ever work with probably 95% of officers they will freak the fuck out if you change the above formula, even if what you are adding is cooler than what the Army gave you.


Yup. I got royally bitched at because I swapped my charging handle for another charging handle with a PRI Big Latch on it.

Luckily, they guy doing the bitching was a Corporal (Bn Armory). As I was a lowly Lance Cooley, my Squad Leader (a short, salt-n-pepper haired Italian who was also a Corporal) chewed his ass for being a POG


The Marine Corps is a stickler for uniformity, but some commands do allow for some modifications as long as they meet approval. Back when I was in, you got issued a M16A1, which was usually a leftover from Vietnam. That was it. There was nothing to do to it. In the past 10 years, things have really changed. Since the onslaught of some quality aftermarket products, several vendors/manufacturers have had their line of products approved for military use. LMT, MAGPUL, LaRue Tactical, Aimpoint, L3 Communications/EOTech, Trijicon, KAC, BCM, and several others are amongst the list. Then there is the personal use equipment, but that is a different thread. You will typically not see cheap crap on these weapons. In the civilian world, there is all kinds of cheap crap being used.

SEMPER FI guys.
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 5:54:14 PM EST
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Originally Posted By jrs93accord:


The Marine Corps is a stickler for uniformity, but some commands do allow for some modifications as long as they meet approval. Back when I was in, you got issued a M16A1, which was usually a leftover from Vietnam. That was it. There was nothing to do to it. In the past 10 years, things have really changed. Since the onslaught of some quality aftermarket products, several vendors/manufacturers have had their line of products approved for military use. LMT, MAGPUL, LaRue Tactical, Aimpoint, L3 Communications/EOTech, Trijicon, KAC, BCM, and several others are amongst the list. Then there is the personal use equipment, but that is a different thread. You will typically not see cheap crap on these weapons. In the civilian world, there is all kinds of cheap crap being used.

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LMT provides stocks, which aren't very common outside of SOCOM. I got lucky and got my armorer to get me one from the civilian contractors who did high level weapon repair on our FOB.

Magpul PMAG's were issued for a short time, then the Army said it didn't approve of them anymore -- their furniture hasn't been adopted by the military, who uses the M4 RAS and the standard Colt stocks for their rifles.

LaRue doesn't have any contracts for their mounts that I know of outside of the mount for the Marine's machine gun optic -- I can't remember who makes their ACOG mounts but another company makes QD mounts issued by the Marines.

Aimpoint M68 CCO's are commonly issued in the Army, the civilian version of these are available as the Comp M2 and Comp M4. EOTechs were purchased by certain units, but the only people who issue them regularly is SOCOM -- big Army stuck to the M68 as its standardized reflex sight. The mount used is either the standard QRP mount for the M2's or the newer QRP2 mounts for the M4 M68's.

Trijicon provides several models of ACOGs, the USMC uses the RCO model, and the Army did for a while too but has moved towards their standardized M150 model.

Knight's provides the M4 rail system which is part of the M4 MWS (Modular Weapon System), which is the standard issue rifle currently for the majority of the Army's combat arms.

BCM doesn't make anything for the Army that I know of.

As for you not typically seeing cheap crap on these weapons -- you do if you leave joe to his own devices to put whatever he wants on his weapon.
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 6:21:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2014 6:23:04 PM EST by TurbineGuy]
I know the Marine Corps uses Larue mounts on some night vision and/or thermal optics, but I don't remember which ones offhand.

Larue mounts have also been issued on T1s, both regular and offset mounts, and I've seen Aimpoint magnifiers with Larue mounts. The Aimpoint mounts I've seen were all in use in Recon, Force Recon, and MARSOF units. The picture below was just posted on the Marine Corps' Facebook yesterday or the day before.





I'm interested to know what, if any, BCM products have been issued. I've seen a pic of an upper in use by the Army, but I'm pretty sure that was a personal purchase.
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 7:17:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2014 7:20:18 PM EST by sbt12]
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Originally Posted By TurbineGuy:

The reason clone threads are f'ed up is because some members think they know it all, when in fact they don't. Just because someone is issued a CQBR doesn't mean they are experts on a matter.

You aren't a Marine, never will be a Marine, so commenting on how and why Marines have and do things shouldn't be your concern.

You stick with the Army side of the conversation and let the Marines take care of their side of the conversation. I'm willing to bet the Marine's know more about the Marines then you do.

And as already stated by Doc, several Army units deployed with mostly, or completely, ACOGs.
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Originally Posted By TurbineGuy:
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Exactly. OP asked a simple question, instead of a (my) simple answer we (collectively) dumped every known/seen/possible configuration on him.

And most Marines (in a force that's a third or so the size of the Army) have M16s...so, my statement still stands as the most common standard issue M4 config.

And this is why the clone threads are f'ed up...so much noise few know what they are actually building.

The reason clone threads are f'ed up is because some members think they know it all, when in fact they don't. Just because someone is issued a CQBR doesn't mean they are experts on a matter.

You aren't a Marine, never will be a Marine, so commenting on how and why Marines have and do things shouldn't be your concern.

You stick with the Army side of the conversation and let the Marines take care of their side of the conversation. I'm willing to bet the Marine's know more about the Marines then you do.

And as already stated by Doc, several Army units deployed with mostly, or completely, ACOGs.



Easy there big haus....this is a discussion thread....where people who want to learn come. You can say they same without the attitude...like a REAL marine would.
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 7:42:24 PM EST
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Originally Posted By sbt12:



Easy there big haus....this is a discussion thread....where people who want to learn come. You can say they same without the attitude...like a REAL marine would.
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Originally Posted By sbt12:
Originally Posted By TurbineGuy:
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Exactly. OP asked a simple question, instead of a (my) simple answer we (collectively) dumped every known/seen/possible configuration on him.

And most Marines (in a force that's a third or so the size of the Army) have M16s...so, my statement still stands as the most common standard issue M4 config.

And this is why the clone threads are f'ed up...so much noise few know what they are actually building.

The reason clone threads are f'ed up is because some members think they know it all, when in fact they don't. Just because someone is issued a CQBR doesn't mean they are experts on a matter.

You aren't a Marine, never will be a Marine, so commenting on how and why Marines have and do things shouldn't be your concern.

You stick with the Army side of the conversation and let the Marines take care of their side of the conversation. I'm willing to bet the Marine's know more about the Marines then you do.

And as already stated by Doc, several Army units deployed with mostly, or completely, ACOGs.



Easy there big haus....this is a discussion thread....where people who want to learn come. You can say they same without the attitude...like a REAL marine would.

Marine is capitalized. A real Marine would know that.

Now back to the discussion.
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 8:00:56 PM EST
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Originally Posted By TurbineGuy:
I know the Marine Corps uses Larue mounts on some night vision and/or thermal optics, but I don't remember which ones offhand.

Larue mounts have also been issued on T1s, both regular and offset mounts, and I've seen Aimpoint magnifiers with Larue mounts. The Aimpoint mounts I've seen were all in use in Recon, Force Recon, and MARSOF units. The picture below was just posted on the Marine Corps' Facebook yesterday or the day before.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e190/turbineguy03/imagejpg1_zps6f7e0e0d.jpg



I'm interested to know what, if any, BCM products have been issued. I've seen a pic of an upper in use by the Army, but I'm pretty sure that was a personal purchase.
View Quote


None of our QD optics had Larue mounts. Our ACOGs had the standard ACOG picatinny mount. I know of a guy in my company who had a Larue mount (he's a member here), but it was his personal mount.

Our PVS-22s had ARMS mounts. The Peq-2A and Peq-15 were secured with an Allen wrench on the rail.

I have never seen anything from BCM.
We were issued some cheap plastic light mount for our rifle for the Pentagon and/or Pelican flashlights. Team leaders and squad leaders got Surefire 591 weapon lights (non QD).
Several guys bought their own Surefire weapon light.

Most guys used a Specter 3pt sling because that was sold at the PX and also the Eagle sling sucks.
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 8:01:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2014 8:30:39 PM EST by sbt12]
All here are factory ACOG...no one brought personal mounts
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 8:21:46 PM EST
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Originally Posted By dangerdan:


None of our QD optics had Larue mounts. Our ACOGs had the standard ACOG picatinny mount. I know of a guy in my company who had a Larue mount (he's a member here), but it was his personal mount.

Our PVS-22s had ARMS mounts. The Peq-2A and Peq-15 were secured with an Allen wrench on the rail.

I have never seen anything from BCM.
We were issued some cheap plastic light mount for our rifle for the Pentagon and/or Pelican flashlights. Team leaders and squad leaders got Surefire 591 weapon lights (non QD).
Several guys bought their own Surefire weapon light.

Most guys used a Specter 3pt sling because that was sold at the PX and also the Eagle sling sucks.
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Originally Posted By dangerdan:
Originally Posted By TurbineGuy:
SNIP


None of our QD optics had Larue mounts. Our ACOGs had the standard ACOG picatinny mount. I know of a guy in my company who had a Larue mount (he's a member here), but it was his personal mount.

Our PVS-22s had ARMS mounts. The Peq-2A and Peq-15 were secured with an Allen wrench on the rail.

I have never seen anything from BCM.
We were issued some cheap plastic light mount for our rifle for the Pentagon and/or Pelican flashlights. Team leaders and squad leaders got Surefire 591 weapon lights (non QD).
Several guys bought their own Surefire weapon light.

Most guys used a Specter 3pt sling because that was sold at the PX and also the Eagle sling sucks.

Yeah, by far the most common mounts I saw were factory mounts on ACOGs, all in regular fleet units. There was also another company (GCI I think) that made some, but I never saw once personally that I can recall.

Surefire lights all had the factory or ARMS mounts too. Those were the only lights I remember ever being used. I used a Viking Tactics mount with a 6P when the ARMS mount on my M95whatever broke. That bitch was heavy so I was glad it broke.

Specter slings were pretty much the standard for slings. I made my own "VTAC" sling out of some webbing and a gutted pack strap for a little while until I was able to get the real thing.
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 9:27:04 PM EST
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Originally Posted By DocBach:
Not really for most of the guys. We went over them pretty extensively in SDM, so those of us who went passed what we knew down to our platoons.

It was pretty funny, though. The First Army guys doing our training had no idea how to train on the ACOG's -- one of them picked my weapon up during a demonstration and recommended I turn it off to save the battery, hence my sig.
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LOL. Did you try to correct him?
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 9:34:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2014 9:39:53 PM EST by JJREA]
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Originally Posted By jrs93accord:



This is what happens in the field. You get issued your M4 (or A4) and, in most cases, you end up changing some things to make it more comfortable to carry and shoot. This is why you see a variety of buttstocks on the carbines, MAGPUL PMAGs, slings, and optics. Even with the ACOGS, you will usually see three different ones used (TA01NSN, TA31RCOM4, and TA31RCOA4). Same goes for Aimpoints. You could see a mix of M4Ss, M2s, and M3s. You coiuld even see an Aimpoint PRO or two being used. Same with weaponlights and VFGs. From this point, you can then venture in the the world of the M4A1 and SOPMOD accessories. I have several M4 setups that range from the base model up to SOPMOD versions. How you build your M4 will depend on the version you want to build and the richness of your wallet.

Basic M4
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/002_zpsda950da1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/002_zpsda950da1.jpg</a>

Colt LE6920 w/ TA01NSN
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea_08/DSC00649.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea_08/DSC00649.jpg</a>

Sabre Defense 14.5" w/ TA31RCOM4
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea%202012/SD001.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea%202012/SD001.jpg</a>

CMTS/CMMG 14.5" SOCOM w/EOTech 553
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea2011A/004-7.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea2011A/004-7.jpg</a>

LMT/CMMG M4 w/ Aimpoint M2
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea%202012/001-2.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea%202012/001-2.jpg</a>

Quentin Defense w/ Aimpoint M3
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/003_zps5fc0e1ba.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/003_zps5fc0e1ba.jpg</a>
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Originally Posted By jrs93accord:
Originally Posted By BOONEA:
In 2005 I carried this
14.5
Carry handle
KAC VFG
Specter Sling

In 2006 I carried this
14.5
ACOG
MATech BUIS
KAC VFG
Specter Sling
Surefire 951

This was in the Marine Corps infantry, no one was issued aimpoints or eotechs in my unit. No one had different stocks issued to them. Anyone with cool guy stuff had purchased it on their own.



This is what happens in the field. You get issued your M4 (or A4) and, in most cases, you end up changing some things to make it more comfortable to carry and shoot. This is why you see a variety of buttstocks on the carbines, MAGPUL PMAGs, slings, and optics. Even with the ACOGS, you will usually see three different ones used (TA01NSN, TA31RCOM4, and TA31RCOA4). Same goes for Aimpoints. You could see a mix of M4Ss, M2s, and M3s. You coiuld even see an Aimpoint PRO or two being used. Same with weaponlights and VFGs. From this point, you can then venture in the the world of the M4A1 and SOPMOD accessories. I have several M4 setups that range from the base model up to SOPMOD versions. How you build your M4 will depend on the version you want to build and the richness of your wallet.

Basic M4
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/002_zpsda950da1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/002_zpsda950da1.jpg</a>

Colt LE6920 w/ TA01NSN
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea_08/DSC00649.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea_08/DSC00649.jpg</a>

Sabre Defense 14.5" w/ TA31RCOM4
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea%202012/SD001.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea%202012/SD001.jpg</a>

CMTS/CMMG 14.5" SOCOM w/EOTech 553
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea2011A/004-7.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea2011A/004-7.jpg</a>

LMT/CMMG M4 w/ Aimpoint M2
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea%202012/001-2.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea%202012/001-2.jpg</a>

Quentin Defense w/ Aimpoint M3
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/003_zps5fc0e1ba.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/003_zps5fc0e1ba.jpg</a>


I would imagine you are one of the better people to ask this, since you have so many. And I'm assuming you've shot them all. Although sometimes that seems like an impossibility. But anyways.... Which AR do you like the best when it comes to just a do it all rifle? And if it IS an M4 type, what configuration do you like for a do it all type. I personally think I would LOVE an ACOG, but never made the investment. But regardless of that, I'm curious as to what you think. I wouldn't even know that I thought the best was because I haven't tried half the amount of configs that you own. I've tried my share, but I'm still up for debate as to what I like the best. But I lean towards rifles for several reasons. But I like everything light, so...... an M4gery is very appealing.

Sorry to kind of go off topic OP.
Link Posted: 10/1/2014 10:55:54 PM EST
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Originally Posted By JJREA:


I would imagine you are one of the better people to ask this, since you have so many. And I'm assuming you've shot them all. Although sometimes that seems like an impossibility. But anyways.... Which AR do you like the best when it comes to just a do it all rifle? And if it IS an M4 type, what configuration do you like for a do it all type. I personally think I would LOVE an ACOG, but never made the investment. But regardless of that, I'm curious as to what you think. I wouldn't even know that I thought the best was because I haven't tried half the amount of configs that you own. I've tried my share, but I'm still up for debate as to what I like the best. But I lean towards rifles for several reasons. But I like everything light, so...... an M4gery is very appealing.

Sorry to kind of go off topic OP.
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Originally Posted By JJREA:
Originally Posted By jrs93accord:
Originally Posted By BOONEA:
In 2005 I carried this
14.5
Carry handle
KAC VFG
Specter Sling

In 2006 I carried this
14.5
ACOG
MATech BUIS
KAC VFG
Specter Sling
Surefire 951

This was in the Marine Corps infantry, no one was issued aimpoints or eotechs in my unit. No one had different stocks issued to them. Anyone with cool guy stuff had purchased it on their own.



This is what happens in the field. You get issued your M4 (or A4) and, in most cases, you end up changing some things to make it more comfortable to carry and shoot. This is why you see a variety of buttstocks on the carbines, MAGPUL PMAGs, slings, and optics. Even with the ACOGS, you will usually see three different ones used (TA01NSN, TA31RCOM4, and TA31RCOA4). Same goes for Aimpoints. You could see a mix of M4Ss, M2s, and M3s. You coiuld even see an Aimpoint PRO or two being used. Same with weaponlights and VFGs. From this point, you can then venture in the the world of the M4A1 and SOPMOD accessories. I have several M4 setups that range from the base model up to SOPMOD versions. How you build your M4 will depend on the version you want to build and the richness of your wallet.

Basic M4
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/002_zpsda950da1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/002_zpsda950da1.jpg</a>

Colt LE6920 w/ TA01NSN
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea_08/DSC00649.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea_08/DSC00649.jpg</a>

Sabre Defense 14.5" w/ TA31RCOM4
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea%202012/SD001.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea%202012/SD001.jpg</a>

CMTS/CMMG 14.5" SOCOM w/EOTech 553
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea2011A/004-7.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea2011A/004-7.jpg</a>

LMT/CMMG M4 w/ Aimpoint M2
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea%202012/001-2.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea%202012/001-2.jpg</a>

Quentin Defense w/ Aimpoint M3
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/003_zps5fc0e1ba.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/003_zps5fc0e1ba.jpg</a>


I would imagine you are one of the better people to ask this, since you have so many. And I'm assuming you've shot them all. Although sometimes that seems like an impossibility. But anyways.... Which AR do you like the best when it comes to just a do it all rifle? And if it IS an M4 type, what configuration do you like for a do it all type. I personally think I would LOVE an ACOG, but never made the investment. But regardless of that, I'm curious as to what you think. I wouldn't even know that I thought the best was because I haven't tried half the amount of configs that you own. I've tried my share, but I'm still up for debate as to what I like the best. But I lean towards rifles for several reasons. But I like everything light, so...... an M4gery is very appealing.

Sorry to kind of go off topic OP.


I will say this, I have my Mk18 CQBR setup for my SHTF weapon.



As far as a Jack-of-all-trades AR is concerned, I would go with my Sabre Defense XM-15 M4.



With the 14.5" 1/7 barrel, I can use anything from XM193 to Mk262 ammo. The TA31RCOM4 ACOG gives me the versatility that would allow me to hit targets and close range or out to around 300M with no problem. It is short enough for CQB should it need to be used for that. To me, this makes for a really good all-around AR. I do like my mid-length ARs and they shoot well, but they are not setup for multiple usages. They could be, but currently they are not.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 12:00:03 AM EST
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Originally Posted By kavants:
Sorry if this is a silly clone question, but I am not all that familiar with the military M4 specs. I plan on building an M4 clone and was wondering if my parts list is accurate.

14.5" pinned A2 M4 upper
Aimpoint M2 (or PRO) in what mount? or EOTech (not sure which model was issued?)
KAC micro BUIS
KAC M4 drop in rail
LMT/B5 SOPMOD stock
Surefire Scout light
KAC VFG (is a Tango Down an issue item?)
CQD end plate sling mount

Thanks for humoring me.
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Originally Posted By kavants:
Sorry if this is a silly clone question, but I am not all that familiar with the military M4 specs. I plan on building an M4 clone and was wondering if my parts list is accurate.

14.5" pinned A2 M4 upper
Aimpoint M2 (or PRO) in what mount? or EOTech (not sure which model was issued?)
KAC micro BUIS
KAC M4 drop in rail
LMT/B5 SOPMOD stock
Surefire Scout light
KAC VFG (is a Tango Down an issue item?)
CQD end plate sling mount

Thanks for humoring me.


Any of the parts you have are a possibility. Red are the ones that are less likely on a "standard" M4, usually you will see a standard rear plate, standard "waffle" pattern M4 stock, and a Matech BUIS. Far more Surefire M951s have been issued than scout lights, but aftermarket purchases of them are so common, that I'd say you're fine using one on a clone. It really boils down to how accurate you want to be to an out-of-the-armory, issued weapon.
Mostly, you're going to see the standard factory/QRP mount.
I'm assuming your terminology is just a bit off on the "A2 M4 upper," as the A2 upper is NOT what you want, as it has a fixed carry handle.

I'd recommend checking out some of the many clone threads on here, especially the M4 picture thread, which is full of pictures of service rifles.


Originally Posted By sbt12:

Easy there big haus....this is a discussion thread....where people who want to learn come. You can say they same without the attitude...like a REAL marine would.


It's his shtick, just ignore it.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 12:20:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2014 12:20:55 AM EST by dangerdan]
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Originally Posted By Nameless_Hobo:


Any of the parts you have are a possibility. Red are the ones that are less likely on a "standard" M4, usually you will see a standard rear plate, standard "waffle" pattern M4 stock, and a Matech BUIS. Far more Surefire M951s have been issued than scout lights, but aftermarket purchases of them are so common, that I'd say you're fine using one on a clone. It really boils down to how accurate you want to be to an out-of-the-armory, issued weapon.
Mostly, you're going to see the standard factory/QRP mount.
I'm assuming your terminology is just a bit off on the "A2 M4 upper," as the A2 upper is NOT what you want, as it has a fixed carry handle.

I'd recommend checking out some of the many clone threads on here, especially the M4 picture thread, which is full of pictures of service rifles.




It's his shtick, just ignore it.
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Originally Posted By Nameless_Hobo:
Originally Posted By kavants:
Sorry if this is a silly clone question, but I am not all that familiar with the military M4 specs. I plan on building an M4 clone and was wondering if my parts list is accurate.

14.5" pinned A2 M4 upper
Aimpoint M2 (or PRO) in what mount? or EOTech (not sure which model was issued?)
KAC micro BUIS
KAC M4 drop in rail
LMT/B5 SOPMOD stock
Surefire Scout light
KAC VFG (is a Tango Down an issue item?)
CQD end plate sling mount

Thanks for humoring me.


Any of the parts you have are a possibility. Red are the ones that are less likely on a "standard" M4, usually you will see a standard rear plate, standard "waffle" pattern M4 stock, and a Matech BUIS. Far more Surefire M951s have been issued than scout lights, but aftermarket purchases of them are so common, that I'd say you're fine using one on a clone. It really boils down to how accurate you want to be to an out-of-the-armory, issued weapon.
Mostly, you're going to see the standard factory/QRP mount.
I'm assuming your terminology is just a bit off on the "A2 M4 upper," as the A2 upper is NOT what you want, as it has a fixed carry handle.

I'd recommend checking out some of the many clone threads on here, especially the M4 picture thread, which is full of pictures of service rifles.


Originally Posted By sbt12:

Easy there big haus....this is a discussion thread....where people who want to learn come. You can say they same without the attitude...like a REAL marine would.


It's his shtick, just ignore it.


The Marines have been issued KAC Micro BUISs for several years now. When I was in (06-10), nobody had BUISs on their M16s and M4s, unless it was a personal purchase
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 12:46:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2014 1:25:50 AM EST by TurbineGuy]
The first KAC BUIS I saw was on an issued M4 in Bangor, WA while assigned to MCSF there in 2000.


Hobo, read my sig if you have a problem with me. sbt12 is most likely a new acct for someone who was recently banned. Why else would he make those posts the day he joined?

I'm gonna say it's DiveFlyFun for the way he posts and what he posts. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 1:04:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 1:33:15 AM EST
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Originally Posted By jrs93accord:


I will say this, I have my Mk18 CQBR setup for my SHTF weapon.

<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/002_zps2c9b801c.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/002_zps2c9b801c.jpg</a>

As far as a Jack-of-all-trades AR is concerned, I would go with my Sabre Defense XM-15 M4.

<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea%202012/SD001.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea%202012/SD001.jpg</a>

With the 14.5" 1/7 barrel, I can use anything from XM193 to Mk262 ammo. The TA31RCOM4 ACOG gives me the versatility that would allow me to hit targets and close range or out to around 300M with no problem. It is short enough for CQB should it need to be used for that. To me, this makes for a really good all-around AR. I do like my mid-length ARs and they shoot well, but they are not setup for multiple usages. They could be, but currently they are not.
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Originally Posted By jrs93accord:
Originally Posted By JJREA:
Originally Posted By jrs93accord:
Originally Posted By BOONEA:
In 2005 I carried this
14.5
Carry handle
KAC VFG
Specter Sling

In 2006 I carried this
14.5
ACOG
MATech BUIS
KAC VFG
Specter Sling
Surefire 951

This was in the Marine Corps infantry, no one was issued aimpoints or eotechs in my unit. No one had different stocks issued to them. Anyone with cool guy stuff had purchased it on their own.



This is what happens in the field. You get issued your M4 (or A4) and, in most cases, you end up changing some things to make it more comfortable to carry and shoot. This is why you see a variety of buttstocks on the carbines, MAGPUL PMAGs, slings, and optics. Even with the ACOGS, you will usually see three different ones used (TA01NSN, TA31RCOM4, and TA31RCOA4). Same goes for Aimpoints. You could see a mix of M4Ss, M2s, and M3s. You coiuld even see an Aimpoint PRO or two being used. Same with weaponlights and VFGs. From this point, you can then venture in the the world of the M4A1 and SOPMOD accessories. I have several M4 setups that range from the base model up to SOPMOD versions. How you build your M4 will depend on the version you want to build and the richness of your wallet.

Basic M4
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/002_zpsda950da1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/002_zpsda950da1.jpg</a>

Colt LE6920 w/ TA01NSN
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea_08/DSC00649.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea_08/DSC00649.jpg</a>

Sabre Defense 14.5" w/ TA31RCOM4
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea%202012/SD001.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea%202012/SD001.jpg</a>

CMTS/CMMG 14.5" SOCOM w/EOTech 553
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea2011A/004-7.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea2011A/004-7.jpg</a>

LMT/CMMG M4 w/ Aimpoint M2
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea%202012/001-2.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea%202012/001-2.jpg</a>

Quentin Defense w/ Aimpoint M3
<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/003_zps5fc0e1ba.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/003_zps5fc0e1ba.jpg</a>


I would imagine you are one of the better people to ask this, since you have so many. And I'm assuming you've shot them all. Although sometimes that seems like an impossibility. But anyways.... Which AR do you like the best when it comes to just a do it all rifle? And if it IS an M4 type, what configuration do you like for a do it all type. I personally think I would LOVE an ACOG, but never made the investment. But regardless of that, I'm curious as to what you think. I wouldn't even know that I thought the best was because I haven't tried half the amount of configs that you own. I've tried my share, but I'm still up for debate as to what I like the best. But I lean towards rifles for several reasons. But I like everything light, so...... an M4gery is very appealing.

Sorry to kind of go off topic OP.


I will say this, I have my Mk18 CQBR setup for my SHTF weapon.

<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/Weapons%202014/002_zps2c9b801c.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/Weapons%202014/002_zps2c9b801c.jpg</a>

As far as a Jack-of-all-trades AR is concerned, I would go with my Sabre Defense XM-15 M4.

<a href="http://s100.photobucket.com/user/jamesrea_2006/media/jamesrea%202012/SD001.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea%202012/SD001.jpg</a>

With the 14.5" 1/7 barrel, I can use anything from XM193 to Mk262 ammo. The TA31RCOM4 ACOG gives me the versatility that would allow me to hit targets and close range or out to around 300M with no problem. It is short enough for CQB should it need to be used for that. To me, this makes for a really good all-around AR. I do like my mid-length ARs and they shoot well, but they are not setup for multiple usages. They could be, but currently they are not.


Thank you, I appreciate that. Both look like fine choices.

Now this may sound like a smart alec question but I'm being genuine. The M4 with the ACOG.. Do you not find that you could hit out past 300 relatively easy with the ACOG on there? I don't find 300 to be all that far with even irons. Well, I didn't about 7 years ago. I did struggle with my M-1 carbine at that distance, but not so much with AR's. Does that particular ACOG have some kind of BDC on it? I guess maybe 300 is the magical place where after that things start to get a little more interesting with bullet drop. And to be honest, I had not done much shooting past 300. In fact, I don't think I've shot any of my AR's past 300. So.... I don't have much experience to go on.
Link Posted: 10/2/2014 7:01:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2014 7:01:51 AM EST by Lancelot]
we have way to many M4 threads alrady
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