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Posted: 10/7/2004 4:50:15 AM EST
I wasn't sure exactly where to ask these questions but thought maybe here is the place?

Ok I was reading an atricle in the "Special Weapons for Military and Police" magazine and the author of a story was saying the M4 was "plagued" with problems such as "Early Timing","Excessive Cyclic Rate","Parts breakages",Bolt Failures" and "Unacceptable barrel life"

Also later in the article he stated the the two most common problems with the M4 is "broken extractors and bolt carrier keys" also mentioned "occassional torn case heads"

Ok I have on order a Bushmaster M4 "Type" Carbine which I realize is a different animal from the true M4. Now this article has me a little concerned about these problems.

Could someone enlighten me about these problems ie; are they true? and are they also a problem in the civilian models such as the Bushmaster M4 Types with 14.5" bbls.?
I just don't want to buy myself a bunch of headaches and if I can expect these types of failures would rather pass on my current choice on order and get maybe a 20" A2 or A3 model!
Thanks Any help on this would be appreciated!
Rob
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:30:59 AM EST
I have not had any problems with my Busy M4. You can install a heavy 9mm buffer in your M4 and it will help prevent most of the problems you mentioned because it delays the extraction process until the gas pressures are at more reasonable levels.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 5:56:43 AM EST
Problems in the military M4 carbine have been addressed as they were discovered. Most of them were due to use that was over and above the training regimen recommended for these weapons. In other words, severe use at sustained full auto operation in very high ambient temperatures.

There have been improvement packages issued to correct deficiencies present in the older variations that are still in service. Fully improved models are what are being issued to our troops now.

I seriously doubt that you'll ever be able to put your Bushy through the stresses that cause the problems that you've read about. Don't even worry about it, Bushy makes a great firearm.

A bit of unsolictited advice - if you stop reading the drivel published in that rag that you've mentioned in your post you'll have a lot more time to spend on the trigger of your Bushy. That newstand POS is one of the major contributors of bullshit that winds up being spread around by the magazine rack cowboys and gunstore commandos.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:04:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 6:05:52 AM EST by possum58]
Thank You for the Info!
And I think your heads up on the rag is sound advice.
Thanks Rob
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:07:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By Str8shot:
A bit of unsolictited advice - if you stop reading the drivel published in that rag that you've mentioned in your post you'll have a lot more time to spend on the trigger of your Bushy. That newstand POS is one of the major contributors of bullshit that winds up being spread around by the magazine rack cowboys and gunstore commandos.



+1 (good job Str8shot).

Possum if you do want to read a magazine with some decent info I'll suggest SWAT.

With Real-Deal guys like Pat Rogers contributing you're going to get some better info.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:21:32 AM EST
they might be true, but i would think that it applies to FULL AUTO m-4s cause of more cycling action tearing up the parts

i got a bushy 16in post-ban, and it still works fine
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:25:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 6:28:06 AM EST by DevL]

Originally Posted By possum58:
I wasn't sure exactly where to ask these questions but thought maybe here is the place?

Ok I was reading an atricle in the "Special Weapons for Military and Police" magazine and the author of a story was saying the M4 was "plagued" with problems such as "Early Timing"

Only a problem with NATO pressure ammo which you may or may not use... even then there are solutions like the FatBoy gas tube, LMT enhanced bolt etc. To me its a non issue.


,"Excessive Cyclic Rate"

M16 carrier combined with H, H2, H3 or 9mm buffer solves this


,"Parts breakages"

Every weapon breaks parts, the issues with the AR are centered around the bolt lugs

,Bolt Failures"

If you buy a quality bolt and it fails it will usually be a sheared lug after many, many, many thousands of rounds. Again a non issue to me and to you.

and "Unacceptable barrel life"

How many thousands of rounds do you want to fire before accuracy suffers? SInce you dont fire full auto you dont have to worry about 7 mags in a row destrying a barrel of continuous full auto nor heavy full use auto causing headspace problems.

Also later in the article he stated the the two most common problems with the M4 is "broken extractors and bolt carrier keys"

Extractor spring tension was a problem and has been addressed but quality bolts rarely have extractor issues and as long as your quality carrier has a staked key you wont have issue with that either.


also mentioned "occassional torn case heads"

High pressure and extra strong extractor spring and weak brass is the cause. If you dont use NATO pressure ammo OR use quality brass this is almost never an issue if your chamber is clean.

Ok I have on order a Bushmaster M4 "Type" Carbine which I realize is a different animal from the true M4. Now this article has me a little concerned about these problems.

Not really. Id say the Colt version has more product improvements over the Bushmaster. Both are quality though and my M4 is a Bushmaster and has no issues.

Could someone enlighten me about these problems ie; are they true? and are they also a problem in the civilian models such as the Bushmaster M4 Types with 14.5" bbls.?
I just don't want to buy myself a bunch of headaches and if I can expect these types of failures would rather pass on my current choice on order and get maybe a 20" A2 or A3 model!
Thanks Any help on this would be appreciated!
Rob




I can almost guarantee you you wont have any of these issues in thousands of rounds fired because your weapon will be clean and not abused full auto. Is that good enough?
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:36:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 6:37:45 AM EST by possum58]
Yes almost!
Is XM193 and Q3131A Nato Ammo? Or were you meaning the newer stuff with 62gr. Bullets (I forget the nomanclature)
Thank You!
Rob
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:43:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 6:43:43 AM EST by Forest]

Originally Posted By possum58:
Yes almost!
Is XM193 and Q3131A Nato Ammo?


No. The US and a few other countries (like Israel) use /have used M193 type ammo




Or were you meaning the newer stuff with 62gr. Bullets (I forget the nomanclature)
Thank You!
Rob


NATO ammo uses the FN SS109 projectile. It's a 62gr jackected bullet with a lead core and a mild steel penetrator.

In the US we call this M855, IIRC the Canadians call it C77.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 6:54:30 AM EST
I have a Question too. h.gif

Whats ALL the differences between a Colt LE6920 and a BM with a 14.5 barrel and permenatly attched phantom? And which is better. Personally I think the BM looks the most like a real M4 the military uses, but that just me
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:17:14 AM EST
The difference is that Colt mkaes the military's M-4's. I never had any problems with mine, other than dust and dirt after some hard usage, but then again mine had 3 rd burst, not full auto.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:34:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2004 7:36:51 AM EST by El_Roto]

Originally Posted By Mattdawg:
I have a Question too.

Whats ALL the differences between a Colt LE6920 and a BM with a 14.5 barrel and permenatly attched phantom? And which is better. Personally I think the BM looks the most like a real M4 the military uses, but that just me



Please, please, PLEASE use the Search feature and look for LE6920 and Bushmaster going back 30 days. This has been gone over repeatedly and there's no reason to do it again here.
Link Posted: 10/7/2004 7:56:34 AM EST
Thank You all for your comments!
Rob
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