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Link Posted: 12/2/2020 10:48:28 PM EST
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Originally Posted By gmbackus:



Awesome thank you!

Follow up: I know there is individual preference for sling mounting position, but in an “as issued” condition would the correct position be loop forward(bolt heads on top) or loop rear(bolt heads on bottom)?

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Originally Posted By gmbackus:
Originally Posted By pezboytate:


CQD front is issued.

C keyhole is GTG. CAGE haven't been seen in use yet AFAIK.

No QD mount is what is issued. Anything else would be private purchase.



Awesome thank you!

Follow up: I know there is individual preference for sling mounting position, but in an “as issued” condition would the correct position be loop forward(bolt heads on top) or loop rear(bolt heads on bottom)?



I believe they ship with the loop in the rear mounted at the rear of the rail but just put it where you want.
Link Posted: 12/2/2020 11:22:28 PM EST
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Originally Posted By FONTY:

I wouldn’t trade my Ecos for an Elcan. Given i don’t have much time behind the Elcan like the Acog but between the weight & reticle I liking the Acog a little better. My opinion might change with more use though.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/236598/F34DD2AC-482E-4A58-8D6C-19D1CBA69CC2_jpe-1711843.JPG
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Originally Posted By FONTY:
Originally Posted By GHOS7:
Even though I love my acog I still find my self tempted to sell and try an elcan sometimes.

I wouldn’t trade my Ecos for an Elcan. Given i don’t have much time behind the Elcan like the Acog but between the weight & reticle I liking the Acog a little better. My opinion might change with more use though.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/236598/F34DD2AC-482E-4A58-8D6C-19D1CBA69CC2_jpe-1711843.JPG


How do you like the piggybacked Docter sight on the Elcan?  I just picked up a mount but am having a hard time tracking one down.
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 12:35:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/3/2020 12:36:43 AM EST by Combat_Diver]
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Originally Posted By pezboytate:


CQD front is issued.

C keyhole is GTG. CAGE haven't been seen in use yet AFAIK.

No QD mount is what is issued. Anything else would be private purchase.
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I've rebuilt and issued many Blk II with FN cage coded uppers.  


CD
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 4:19:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/3/2020 4:27:02 AM EST by GHOS7]
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Originally Posted By FONTY:

I wouldn’t trade my Ecos for an Elcan. Given i don’t have much time behind the Elcan like the Acog but between the weight & reticle I liking the Acog a little better. My opinion might change with more use though.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/236598/F34DD2AC-482E-4A58-8D6C-19D1CBA69CC2_jpe-1711843.JPG
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Good to hear. That's pretty much why I haven't made any serious moves. Seems there's a good consensus of guys that own both but favor the acog. Those block2 plus elcan aesthetics tho <3
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 6:43:26 AM EST
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Originally Posted By gmbackus:
Awesome thank you!

Follow up: I know there is individual preference for sling mounting position, but in an “as issued” condition would the correct position be loop forward(bolt heads on top) or loop rear(bolt heads on bottom)?

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There are pictures of them both ways. I prefer loop forward. Do whatever makes you happy.
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 8:08:35 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:


I've rebuilt and issued many Blk II with FN cage coded uppers.  

CD
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Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
Originally Posted By pezboytate:


CQD front is issued.

C keyhole is GTG. CAGE haven't been seen in use yet AFAIK.

No QD mount is what is issued. Anything else would be private purchase.


I've rebuilt and issued many Blk II with FN cage coded uppers.  

CD


We were talking about Colt CAGE.
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 8:48:02 AM EST
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Originally Posted By pezboytate:


We were talking about Colt CAGE.
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My bad, haven't seen any of those.

CD
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 10:13:37 AM EST
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Originally Posted By HD2006:


How do you like the piggybacked Docter sight on the Elcan?  I just picked up a mount but am having a hard time tracking one down.
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@HD2006 I like it, been using them on Acog’s for 10yrs. Optics Planet shows 5 in stock for $329 free ship.
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 12:05:34 PM EST
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Originally Posted By FONTY:

@HD2006 I like it, been using them on Acog’s for 10yrs. Optics Planet shows 5 in stock for $329 free ship.
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Originally Posted By FONTY:
Originally Posted By HD2006:


How do you like the piggybacked Docter sight on the Elcan?  I just picked up a mount but am having a hard time tracking one down.

@HD2006 I like it, been using them on Acog’s for 10yrs. Optics Planet shows 5 in stock for $329 free ship.


@FONTY, thanks for the heads up.  I’m really trying to find an older one that’s still marked Docter as opposed to Noblex how the new ones are marked.
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 2:55:35 PM EST
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Originally Posted By HD2006:


@FONTY, thanks for the heads up.  I’m really trying to find an older one that’s still marked Docter as opposed to Noblex how the new ones are marked.
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the instagram milsurp sellers get them in a few times a year. you have to jump quick.
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 3:05:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/5/2020 10:32:29 AM EST by FONTY]
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Originally Posted By HD2006:


@FONTY, thanks for the heads up.  I’m really trying to find an older one that’s still marked Docter as opposed to Noblex how the new ones are marked.
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@HD2006 I checked eurooptics they have used Doctor’s in stock $229.
Link Posted: 12/3/2020 3:21:46 PM EST
It took me over a year to find a tanodized 3.5 Doctor, wound up finding a NOS here in the EE. Must of been in there transition period cause it came in a Noblex box Doctor marked.
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Link Posted: 12/3/2020 3:39:58 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/5/2020 3:40:28 PM EST
nice build man
Link Posted: 12/5/2020 4:35:00 PM EST
Just a heads up that Thoroughbred Armament has used surplus Colt 14.5" M4 SOCOM barrel assemblies with sight tower for $194.95 here and used surplus without sight tower for $172.95 here.
Link Posted: 12/6/2020 10:24:15 PM EST
So here’s my build list, just waiting on final parts for the upper.

colt c upper
Colt bcm and charging handle
Fn 14.5 socom barrel (dimpled, no sight tower)
Badger mk12 gas block
SF4p(I really agonized about pin/welding this but decided to go ahead and do it)
FDE RIS II
CQD sling mount
Kac taupe front sight(on back order)
Kac big knob rear

Now just finishing the lower, here’s what I have.
Colt complete lower
H2 buffer and “gold spring”
Geissele ssa
Gen 1coyote brown sopmod
Colt ambi safety(on back order)

So the only thing I have left to get(that’s not on back order) is the grip.  It really seems BCM is the current hotness, but I think I prefer ergo grips. Problem I’m having is there are a TON of ergo grips.

Can anyone make a recommendation as to what would be the most “correct” grip? I see there is a newer “grip 2” but don’t think this would be correct, so I’m assuming it would be just the standard “suregrip” in black?
Link Posted: 12/6/2020 10:42:51 PM EST
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Originally Posted By gmbackus:
So here’s my build list, just waiting on final parts for the upper.

colt c upper
Colt bcm and charging handle
Fn 14.5 socom barrel (dimpled, no sight tower)
Badger mk12 gas block
SF4p(I really agonized about pin/welding this but decided to go ahead and do it)
FDE RIS II
CQD sling mount
Kac taupe front sight(on back order)
Kac big knob rear

Now just finishing the lower, here’s what I have.
Colt complete lower
H2 buffer and “gold spring”
Geissele ssa
Gen 1coyote brown sopmod
Colt ambi safety(on back order)

So the only thing I have left to get(that’s not on back order) is the grip.  It really seems BCM is the current hotness, but I think I prefer ergo grips. Problem I’m having is there are a TON of ergo grips.

Can anyone make a recommendation as to what would be the most “correct” grip? I see there is a newer “grip 2” but don’t think this would be correct, so I’m assuming it would be just the standard “suregrip” in black?
View Quote

Any of the ergos would work. Heck you could even to fde for the color if you wanted. I like a more aggressive texture in my grips, so If I were doing ergo it be that one. I however have the bcm mod 3 in fde on my block II
Link Posted: 12/6/2020 10:52:19 PM EST
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Originally Posted By gmbackus:
So here’s my build list, just waiting on final parts for the upper.

colt c upper
Colt bcm and charging handle
Fn 14.5 socom barrel (dimpled, no sight tower)
Badger mk12 gas block
SF4p(I really agonized about pin/welding this but decided to go ahead and do it)
FDE RIS II
CQD sling mount
Kac taupe front sight(on back order)
Kac big knob rear

Now just finishing the lower, here’s what I have.
Colt complete lower
H2 buffer and “gold spring”
Geissele ssa
Gen 1coyote brown sopmod
Colt ambi safety(on back order)

So the only thing I have left to get(that’s not on back order) is the grip.  It really seems BCM is the current hotness, but I think I prefer ergo grips. Problem I’m having is there are a TON of ergo grips.

Can anyone make a recommendation as to what would be the most “correct” grip? I see there is a newer “grip 2” but don’t think this would be correct, so I’m assuming it would be just the standard “suregrip” in black?
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Colt A2
Link Posted: 12/6/2020 11:09:17 PM EST
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Originally Posted By pezboytate:


Colt A2
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Yes I realize that is the standard, I meant which would be the most “correct” of the ergo models
Link Posted: 12/8/2020 10:58:15 PM EST
Does anyone have any other pictures of ACOGs/SU-237s on Block II clones aside from these? I note these are all in LaRue mounts (except for maybe the last photo in a Bobro mount?) with Troy front/rear BUIS while almost every other Block II I've see have KAC front/rear BUIS.





Link Posted: 12/9/2020 11:40:07 AM EST
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Originally Posted By mdavis:
Does anyone have any other pictures of ACOGs/SU-237s on Block II clones aside from these? I note these are all in LaRue mounts (except for maybe the last photo in a Bobro mount?) with Troy front/rear BUIS while almost every other Block II I've see have KAC front/rear BUIS.
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The reason those rifles look different is because they all belong to Asymmetric Warfare Group. The unit's driving purpose was to develop new strategies, techniques, and equipment solutions to various emerging problems the Army was facing. For instance, they were among the first users to equip the HK416. It should come as no surprise then to see their M4's configured with non-standard optics or BUIS.

And to that later point, there are plenty of pictures of different ACOG's mounted to Block II rifles such as the ones you posted. However, essentially none of them depict *actual* SU-237's purchased and supplied under any SOPMOD program of record. That designation belongs to the TA-01 variant ECOS model—and from what I understand there were very, very few actually delivered under contract before the SU-230 (Elcan Specter DR) superseded it in every respect.

As a result confirmed sightings are extremely elusive. Especially considering the timeframe we're talking about predates the prevalence, much less the very notion, of a camera equipped smart phone in every soldier's pocket. In fact the only photos I have ever come across depicting legitimate SU-237 ACOG's date back to the late trials period/early fielding of the Mk16 SCAR weapon program:





I am, like you, on the hunt for more. So if anyone else has verifiable photos we would love to see them.
Link Posted: 12/9/2020 3:12:08 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/9/2020 4:06:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/9/2020 4:11:22 PM EST by 11b4v]
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Originally Posted By LsuJon:
Su237 definitely w/ %100 confidence. Black su-231 can only remember seeing it on a Marines m4a1 Pr
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Originally Posted By LsuJon:
Originally Posted By mdavis:
I've been trying to find evidence of either black EOTech 553s (SU231) or ECOS ACOGs (SU237) on M4A1 Block IIs, but my Google-fu is weak (or I'm using the wrong keywords). Is there any evidence of either being used on these guns?
Su237 definitely w/ %100 confidence. Black su-231 can only remember seeing it on a Marines m4a1 Pr


SF Group recently training in Germany apparently has one, black SU231 on a rifle.  With the LMT fixed sights, it could be personally owned.
Pic taken from an article at The War Zone on SF's Hard Target Defeat Companies.
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Link Posted: 12/20/2020 4:11:41 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 4:56:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/20/2020 4:57:17 PM EST by GHOS7]
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Everything in this pic
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 10:47:56 PM EST
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Originally Posted By 11b4v:


SF Group recently training in Germany apparently has one, black SU231 on a rifle.  With the LMT fixed sights, it could be personally owned.
Pic taken from an article at The War Zone on SF's Hard Target Defeat Companies.
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/778/SF_with_black_231_jpg-1722879.JPG
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Panzer Kaserne also has Navy NSW units attached.  Could have been traded.

CD
Link Posted: 12/23/2020 12:45:53 PM EST
FSP to rejoin the mix soon.


Link Posted: 12/23/2020 6:40:42 PM EST
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You should post more often
Link Posted: 12/23/2020 9:16:27 PM EST
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Ditch the buis?
Link Posted: 12/24/2020 12:54:47 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Creature:

Ditch the buis?
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On the cqbr? yeah. Tried out different, pressure pad configuration and this one stuck. So the BUIS had to leave.
Link Posted: 12/24/2020 9:07:02 PM EST
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Nice.
Link Posted: 12/29/2020 9:07:12 PM EST
Got the Docter mounted up.  Looking forward to trying it out.  

Link Posted: 12/29/2020 10:20:40 PM EST
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Originally Posted By HD2006:
Got the Docter mounted up.  Looking forward to trying it out.  

https://i.imgur.com/YICj5rX.jpg
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Nice.
Link Posted: 12/29/2020 10:32:01 PM EST
So stuck with the a2 grip, though not clone correct the gapper makes it tolerable.

Still have some parts to source(sights, optic) while I wait for my pin and weld to be completed, but need help with the vert foregrip.  Want to go with tangdown, but which one to go along with the build?  Long or short? QD or non qd?

Thanks for the help, will post a pic soon when the upper is in
Link Posted: 12/29/2020 10:50:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/29/2020 11:12:46 PM EST by HD2006]
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Originally Posted By gmbackus:
So stuck with the a2 grip, though not clone correct the gapper makes it tolerable.

Still have some parts to source(sights, optic) while I wait for my pin and weld to be completed, but need help with the vert foregrip.  Want to go with tangdown, but which one to go along with the build?  Long or short? QD or non qd?

Thanks for the help, will post a pic soon when the upper is in
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I don’t find the A2 that bad as long as it’s a Colt and not a commercial A2 grip.  I do use a gapper also on all of mine and agree it’s a big help.

The long (full-size) non QD Tango Down is the issue grip.  Although I’m sure all variants have been seen in the wild.
Link Posted: 12/29/2020 10:58:22 PM EST
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Originally Posted By HD2006:


I don’t find the A2 that bad as long as it’s a Colt and not a commercial A2 grip.  I do use a tapper also on all of mine and agree it’s a big help.

The long (full-size) non QD Tango Down is the issue grip.  Although I’m sure all variants have been seen in the wild.
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In the wild opens a world of possibilities, but this one will be less of a shooter so trying an “as issued” build since I’ll be using an 11.5 URGI as my regular shooter, just always loved the block 2 look.

Appreciate the help, sans optic build should be done by end of January, should be a looker
Link Posted: 12/29/2020 11:13:50 PM EST
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Originally Posted By gmbackus:


In the wild opens a world of possibilities, but this one will be less of a shooter so trying an “as issued” build since I’ll be using an 11.5 URGI as my regular shooter, just always loved the block 2 look.

Appreciate the help, sans optic build should be done by end of January, should be a looker
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Originally Posted By gmbackus:
Originally Posted By HD2006:


I don’t find the A2 that bad as long as it’s a Colt and not a commercial A2 grip.  I do use a tapper also on all of mine and agree it’s a big help.

The long (full-size) non QD Tango Down is the issue grip.  Although I’m sure all variants have been seen in the wild.


In the wild opens a world of possibilities, but this one will be less of a shooter so trying an “as issued” build since I’ll be using an 11.5 URGI as my regular shooter, just always loved the block 2 look.

Appreciate the help, sans optic build should be done by end of January, should be a looker


If that’s the case stick with the full-size non QD version.
Link Posted: 12/30/2020 6:29:29 PM EST
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Originally Posted By HD2006:
Got the Docter mounted up.  Looking forward to trying it out.  

https://i.imgur.com/YICj5rX.jpg
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I really need to get a Doctor for mine. I passed up on a tanodized one for ~$200 not long ago.
Link Posted: 12/30/2020 6:34:13 PM EST
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Originally Posted By SecretSquirell:

I really need to get a Doctor for mine. I passed up on a tanodized one for ~$200 not long ago.
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We're tanodized ones used?
Link Posted: 12/30/2020 8:18:03 PM EST
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Originally Posted By LsuJon:
We're tanodized ones used?
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Originally Posted By LsuJon:
Originally Posted By SecretSquirell:

I really need to get a Doctor for mine. I passed up on a tanodized one for ~$200 not long ago.
We're tanodized ones used?

I thought I remember seeing one somewhere, but I can't remember.
Link Posted: 1/5/2021 8:31:16 PM EST
Semi complete build. I am really considering trading my FSP for a non FSP rail. Anyone got any leads on the non fsp ones?
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Link Posted: 1/6/2021 1:53:15 PM EST


Finally almost done with my build. It's taken the better part of a year to get it all together. MAR1108 Savanah rail, on a lasered 80% lower. I have a PEQ15 now, and a M600V waiting to get put on. The can isn't mine but a friends, I have a Socom RC2 in jail because Surefire cancelled my RC1 I may also get a FDE G33 and SU231A hood eventually. It's my go to rifle
Link Posted: 1/9/2021 2:19:53 AM EST
I can finally add something to this thread! I just put together this upper, everything is new old stock, except the barrel:




Link Posted: 1/9/2021 2:50:07 AM EST
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Originally Posted By USMCSGT0331:
I can finally add something to this thread! I just put together this upper, everything is new old stock, except the barrel:

https://i.imgur.com/xGPiccM.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/luQ9dkC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/SHNOf3M.jpg
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Dig the color on that Savannah
Link Posted: 1/9/2021 10:48:42 PM EST
Can someone PM me the name of the dude selling custom RISII barrel nut wrenches?

Also any good source out there for older tanodized KAC front sights?

Thanks!
Link Posted: 1/9/2021 11:13:12 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Leelee:
Can someone PM me the name of the dude selling custom RISII barrel nut wrenches?

Also any good source out there for older tanodized KAC front sights?

Thanks!
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I see the older taupe anodized front sights in EE pretty regularly.
Link Posted: 1/9/2021 11:36:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/9/2021 11:37:11 PM EST by Leelee]
Iaght, ill keep an eye out
Link Posted: 1/10/2021 12:47:21 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Leelee:
Can someone PM me the name of the dude selling custom RISII barrel nut wrenches?

Also any good source out there for older tanodized KAC front sights?

Thanks!
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IM sent

CD
Link Posted: 1/10/2021 8:51:53 AM EST
whats the suppressor , muzzle adapter commonly used on Block II ?

Link Posted: 1/10/2021 9:18:47 AM EST
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Originally Posted By BSOG1:
whats the suppressor , muzzle adapter commonly used on Block II ?

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Surefire RC/RC2 or Knights NT4
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