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Link Posted: 7/8/2011 6:41:59 PM EST
Who has the best deal on these uppers? Must...have...
Link Posted: 7/8/2011 6:49:09 PM EST
I think BCM is the only company that offers uppers with the RIS II already, but they're usually out of stock.

Pretty much I think most of us start with a 14.5" upper and put the RIS II on ourselves.

Question to other RIS II users - is your barrel centered in the middle of the rails? My barrel seems to favor the ejection port side of the rifle a little bit and isn't centered. I've got an upper assembled by Addax Tactical that does the exact same thing, too. Is this normal, or what?
Link Posted: 7/8/2011 6:53:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dan_Gray:
Originally Posted By DocBach:
Originally Posted By new-arguy:


I know the ACOG is the appropriate optic


I actually have only seen one picture of an ACOG on a Block II M4 - the rest have had Elcan SU-230s or EOTech SU-231s.


I've seen a bunch, they had piggy backed red dots too. But mostly Eotechs and Elcans.


Block I accessories can be found on some Block II rifles, I posted a picture of one with a TA31RCO ACOG in use by an Army Ranger; the SU-237 ACOG is also issued as part of the SOPMOD kit, aka the TA01-ECOS, but from what I've seen with pictures the Elcans and EOTechs are the most common optics on Block II M4's.
Link Posted: 7/8/2011 8:46:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/8/2011 8:48:49 PM EST by jBoy723]
Originally Posted By USP45Tim:
Who has the best deal on these uppers? Must...have...


I was up at Gun Gallery today and I believe they had a FDE RIS II rail in stock and I'm sure Neil can build you one..Might want to give them a call.

ETA: Here's the number 904-641-1619.  You can also IM him (new-arguy) or Gun Gallery here on the forum.
Link Posted: 7/8/2011 8:53:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By jBoy723:
Originally Posted By USP45Tim:
Who has the best deal on these uppers? Must...have...


I was up at Gun Gallery today and I believe they had a FDE RIS II rail in stock and I'm sure Neil can build you one..Might want to give them a call.

ETA: Here's the number 904-641-1619.  You can also IM him (new-arguy) or Gun Gallery here on the forum.


coincidentally you can see his build on the first page in this thread!
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 12:32:54 AM EST
Here's some block II stuff with some other junk thrown in too.































 
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 12:49:31 AM EST
It's an M4A1, full auto and yes, it has the standard profile M4 barrel with the M4 RAS

I got some clarification yesterday on why we have variances from the SOPMOD Block I/Block II.  

Bascially, each service component in SOCOM (MARSOC, AFSOC, NSW, USASOC) gets a certain amount of money for SOPMOD/SOF Peculiar gear, weapons and mods.  That component can chose to go whole hog, partial, or go with their Service Common solution for a particular weapon, mod or piece of kit.  For instance, MARSOC did not buy fully to the SOPMOD program because we already have the M4A1 CQBW as a "Service Common" solution.  We opted to buy certain SOCOM SOPMODs to the CQBW and not purchase others in order to save our SOCOM $ for other kit.  For example, the Marine Corps has a Service Common solution for the light/laser part of the kit, so we get the PEQ 16 instead of the PEQ 15.  We do not have the round counter in our Service Common weapon, as purchased, so we buy that mod from the SOPMOD program.  The goal of the program is to set the standard and provide a solution set for each Service Component to either match from Service Common or purchase with SOPMOD to achieve a weapon system capable of the overall objectives of the program.  So standarization is a matter of raising to a capability, not a mirror-like duplication of weapons per the BLOCK II list.  Got laser?  Check.  Got IR? Check.  Got magnified optic? Check.  Etc., etc., etc.

This, apparenlty, is why we don't see a standarization across the board of the M4 system in SOCOM and why there are so many variants.  Even when a Service Component buys into the SOPMOD program, they can choose to purchase for a portion of the force as well as a portion of the SOPMOD kit.  Thus the M4 soup-sandwich across the force.

Had I not eaten bad goat last week and been stuck in the rear recovering I would never have learned any of this.  Thanks for helping me find a way to pass the time.  Glad to share.
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 1:18:20 AM EST
DocBach/Dan Gray/new-ar guy

Refer to my earlier Una-bomber manifesto regarding SOPMOD.  Gotta say that chasing the SOPMOD Block II clone is like chasing a Unicorn.  Tough to duplicate because there really are no pure Block IIs running around.  

As far as optics ...they're all correct.  You see everything from Aimpoint M68s to Spectres.  ACOGs?  TA01-NSNs are still around and you see them as much as RCOs and SU 237 ACOG ECOS.   EO Techs?  You see the SU 231s as much as the older 552s and some of the new compacts.  The Block I and Block II lists are suggestive menus to set a capability suite standard, not a restrictive/exclusive menu of required gear.  If you've still got 552s it isn't like some SOCOM J4 or J8 SOPMOD Nazi comes with a screw driver and takes them away and bolts on an SU231.  If your unit/Component doesn't want them or can't afford them, you stick w/ the 552s, which weren't offically part of the SOPMOD program to begin with.  

As far as stocks go, just in the chow hall this AM I saw the old style Colt stocks, issue M4 stocks, both color LMT stocks and some Magpul stocks.  And these were all in the same unit, same service.  

You ain't gonna find a pure Block II out here, so I think all of the photos above are good reps of Block II.  The only Block II purists are the ones dinging folks on this blog for not following the menu.  We put what we want on our weapons and what our units can afford.  I do the same thing at home with my M4s.  Embrace the non-standarization, it's a fringe benefit of democracy.
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 1:33:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By 3XIraqvet:
It's an M4A1, full auto and yes, it has the standard profile M4 barrel with the M4 RAS

I got some clarification yesterday on why we have variances from the SOPMOD Block I/Block II.  

Bascially, each service component in SOCOM (MARSOC, AFSOC, NSW, USASOC) gets a certain amount of money for SOPMOD/SOF Peculiar gear, weapons and mods.  That component can chose to go whole hog, partial, or go with their Service Common solution for a particular weapon, mod or piece of kit.  For instance, MARSOC did not buy fully to the SOPMOD program because we already have the M4A1 CQBW as a "Service Common" solution.  We opted to buy certain SOCOM SOPMODs to the CQBW and not purchase others in order to save our SOCOM $ for other kit.  For example, the Marine Corps has a Service Common solution for the light/laser part of the kit, so we get the PEQ 16 instead of the PEQ 15.  We do not have the round counter in our Service Common weapon, as purchased, so we buy that mod from the SOPMOD program.  The goal of the program is to set the standard and provide a solution set for each Service Component to either match from Service Common or purchase with SOPMOD to achieve a weapon system capable of the overall objectives of the program.  So standarization is a matter of raising to a capability, not a mirror-like duplication of weapons per the BLOCK II list.  Got laser?  Check.  Got IR? Check.  Got magnified optic? Check.  Etc., etc., etc.

This, apparenlty, is why we don't see a standarization across the board of the M4 system in SOCOM and why there are so many variants.  Even when a Service Component buys into the SOPMOD program, they can choose to purchase for a portion of the force as well as a portion of the SOPMOD kit.  Thus the M4 soup-sandwich across the force.

Had I not eaten bad goat last week and been stuck in the rear recovering I would never have learned any of this.  Thanks for helping me find a way to pass the time.  Glad to share.


Very informative post, thank you 3xiraqvet.
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 2:04:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By DocBach:
I think BCM is the only company that offers uppers with the RIS II already, but they're usually out of stock.

Pretty much I think most of us start with a 14.5" upper and put the RIS II on ourselves.

Question to other RIS II users - is your barrel centered in the middle of the rails? My barrel seems to favor the ejection port side of the rifle a little bit and isn't centered. I've got an upper assembled by Addax Tactical that does the exact same thing, too. Is this normal, or what?


I noticed this as well.  Shouldn't effect accuracy but (assuming you aren't using the FSP version) zeroing can require some funky adjustments.  After I installed mine and noticed this, I loosened the 6 screws on the bolt-up plate and then retightened until they were just snug.  Then, using my micrometer, adjusted them bit by bit until they were tight enough with the rail centered over the barrel.  Comes out to 0.203" of clearence around the barrel.  Remember, if the barrel is closer to the rail on one side, tightening the screws more on that side will pull the rail over to that said (so at the muzzle end the barrel appears to have moved away).

Long story short, maybe a little tighter on the ejection side should be the trick for you.
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 2:22:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 2:41:53 AM EST
Well, I posted on page one a day or two ago, but today I made a trip down to Surplus Ammo and Rainier Arms (and Tactical Tailor) and got 2 steps closer to my final goal with a tan VLTOR stock and a Surefire M300A.  Unfortunately I had to settle with a black M300A but for $269 it was the right price.

All I need now is the Eotech 553 in tan and I'll be content.





Although it's not a perfect SOPMOD Block II clone, I think that, except for the BattleComp 2.0, I've seen all the parts on .mil weapons.

Parts:
Colt LE6920
Daniel Defense M4A1 RIS II w/ FDE ladder covers
Magpul VFG
VLTOR IMod stock
Troy front and rear Battle Sigths
Magpul PMAGs
BattleComp 2.0
Magpul trigger guard
Magpul BAD lever
Surefire M300A
Eotech 512 (to be replaced with 553 tan)
Some brand's single point sling plate

Not pictured:
Gear Sector single point sling and rig mounted sling
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 2:45:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By Will816:
Well, I posted on page one a day or two ago, but today I made a trip down to Surplus Ammo and Rainier Arms (and Tactical Tailor) and got 2 steps closer to my final goal with a tan VLTOR stock and a Surefire M300A.  Unfortunately I had to settle with a black M300A but for $269 it was the right price.

All I need now is the Eotech 553 in tan and I'll be content.

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae213/Will816/P7090370.jpg
http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae213/Will816/P7090381.jpg
http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae213/Will816/P7090374.jpg

Although it's not a perfect SOPMOD Block II clone, I think that, except for the BattleComp 2.0, I've seen all the parts on .mil weapons.

Parts:
Colt LE6920
Daniel Defense M4A1 RIS II w/ FDE ladder covers
Magpul VFG
VLTOR IMod stock
Troy front and rear Battle Sigths
Magpul PMAGs
BattleComp 2.0
Magpul trigger guard
Magpul BAD lever
Surefire M300A
Eotech 512 (to be replaced with 553 tan)
Some brand's single point sling plate

Not pictured:
Gear Sector single point sling and rig mounted sling


Looks good, all you need is an SR07 switch and a 14.5 barrel wouldnt hurt.
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 5:53:16 AM EST
What's the deal with Daniel Defense's FDE anodizing? I know anodizing isn't a consistent process but I have seen everything from dull borwn to shiny gold remeniscent of the early civilian SCAR-16S. Is DD generally consistent with their FDE finish? I'd like to get the RISS II FSP rail in FDE and really want it in a brown color as seen in some pics.
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 7:13:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By M4A1:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By Croft32:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:

Wrong rail color, Wrong stock, wrong grip, wrong fh, wrong buis, wrong trigger guard

Dare to be different!  


Nothin wrong with that, but we are discussing clones. That's simply an M4



You are correct.  These threads tend to fade far from the clone in discussion.


You gents realize that there can't be an accurate "clone" because operators have some discretion as to what they can put on their guns making for a lot of variances. A certain unit may not even issue what's been accepted as standard for the program outside of the rail.
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 9:48:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/9/2011 9:48:44 AM EST by Tmender03]
Originally Posted By Yoda_USAF:
What's the deal with Daniel Defense's FDE anodizing? I know anodizing isn't a consistent process but I have seen everything from dull borwn to shiny gold remeniscent of the early civilian SCAR-16S. Is DD generally consistent with their FDE finish? I'd like to get the RISS II FSP rail in FDE and really want it in a brown color as seen in some pics.


Not totally sure about DD, but I know my FDE Elcan does some funny color changes in the camera. It's a dark brown color, but the camera can make it show shiny gold.
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 10:59:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By Tmender03:
Originally Posted By Yoda_USAF:
What's the deal with Daniel Defense's FDE anodizing? I know anodizing isn't a consistent process but I have seen everything from dull borwn to shiny gold remeniscent of the early civilian SCAR-16S. Is DD generally consistent with their FDE finish? I'd like to get the RISS II FSP rail in FDE and really want it in a brown color as seen in some pics.


Not totally sure about DD, but I know my FDE Elcan does some funny color changes in the camera. It's a dark brown color, but the camera can make it show shiny gold.


Both my Elcan and DD rails change color in the light. The DD rail is a VERY deep, dark brown. Nowhere near as light as the camera makes it out to be.
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 11:15:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By Yoda_USAF:
What's the deal with Daniel Defense's FDE anodizing? I know anodizing isn't a consistent process but I have seen everything from dull borwn to shiny gold remeniscent of the early civilian SCAR-16S. Is DD generally consistent with their FDE finish? I'd like to get the RISS II FSP rail in FDE and really want it in a brown color as seen in some pics.


The color only appears inconsistent in photos.  Flashes and background color and ambient light seem like they all can wreak havoc on the appearance of the color in a photograph.  I have a feeling that it has to to with the fact that it's a very dark color, but it's still not black, so it has a metallic sheen seen only in the pics.

I've seen a few and they are all a beautiful and consistent dark brown that the camera has no love for but it is a sweet color
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 11:19:42 AM EST
If anyone wants an FDE DD RIS II midways has them, and use the coupon code 371177 for $30 off!
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 11:27:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By 3XIraqvet:


You ain't gonna find a pure Block II out here, so I think all of the photos above are good reps of Block II.  The only Block II purists are the ones dinging folks on this blog for not following the menu.  We put what we want on our weapons and what our units can afford.  I do the same thing at home with my M4s.  Embrace the non-standarization, it's a fringe benefit of democracy.


it's not that we "ding" people for not being exact since there is no exact, people put shit on their "clones" that don't even have an NSN number. A true clone will only use parts with an NSN and even with "parts the operators add" it's not like other are switching out entire rails or grips and stocks. Maybe they'll add a personally owned optic or vertical grip but the trigger guard will never be a magpul guard.

MOE and other magpul furniture has no NSN
Black DD RIS II rails have no NSN
Troy sights have no NSN
Etc
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 11:30:25 AM EST
Well, in my unit (we aren't SOCOM) we could switch things like buttstocks out. Things that didn't need an armorer to do we were allowed to change. Different VFGs and buttstocks were pretty common, my squad leader ran some other BUIS. We weren't allowed to run personal optics though because most people weren't gun guys and were replacing their CCOs with airsoft sights. Most common parts people put on their rifle was Tapco because they sold it at the PX and they didn't know any better.
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 11:42:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By 3XIraqvet:


You ain't gonna find a pure Block II out here, so I think all of the photos above are good reps of Block II.  The only Block II purists are the ones dinging folks on this blog for not following the menu.  We put what we want on our weapons and what our units can afford.  I do the same thing at home with my M4s.  Embrace the non-standarization, it's a fringe benefit of democracy.


it's not that we "ding" people for not being exact since there is no exact, people put shit on their "clones" that don't even have an NSN number. A true clone will only use parts with an NSN and even with "parts the operators add" it's not like other are switching out entire rails or grips and stocks. Maybe they'll add a personally owned optic or vertical grip but the trigger guard will never be a magpul guard.

MOE and other magpul furniture has no NSN
Black DD RIS II rails have no NSN
Troy sights have no NSN
Etc


It doesn't have to have a NSN if it's personal purchase. Different stocks, grips, VFGs, optics, buis, rail covers, ambi parts, bolt assist devices, etc. have shown up on individual operators guns. Obviously this gear needs to be approved before install, but neither are the items I mentioned permanent mods nor do they require armorer install.
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 11:50:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By warpig8654:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By 3XIraqvet:


You ain't gonna find a pure Block II out here, so I think all of the photos above are good reps of Block II.  The only Block II purists are the ones dinging folks on this blog for not following the menu.  We put what we want on our weapons and what our units can afford.  I do the same thing at home with my M4s.  Embrace the non-standarization, it's a fringe benefit of democracy.


it's not that we "ding" people for not being exact since there is no exact, people put shit on their "clones" that don't even have an NSN number. A true clone will only use parts with an NSN and even with "parts the operators add" it's not like other are switching out entire rails or grips and stocks. Maybe they'll add a personally owned optic or vertical grip but the trigger guard will never be a magpul guard.

MOE and other magpul furniture has no NSN
Black DD RIS II rails have no NSN
Troy sights have no NSN
Etc


It doesn't have to have a NSN if it's personal purchase. Different stocks, grips, VFGs, optics, buis, rail covers, ambi parts, bolt assist devices, etc. have shown up on individual operators guns. Obviously this gear needs to be approved before install, but neither are the items I mentioned permanent mods nor do they require armorer install.


Yes, that's true too
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 12:05:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By DocBach:
Originally Posted By Tmender03:
Originally Posted By Yoda_USAF:
What's the deal with Daniel Defense's FDE anodizing? I know anodizing isn't a consistent process but I have seen everything from dull borwn to shiny gold remeniscent of the early civilian SCAR-16S. Is DD generally consistent with their FDE finish? I'd like to get the RISS II FSP rail in FDE and really want it in a brown color as seen in some pics.


Not totally sure about DD, but I know my FDE Elcan does some funny color changes in the camera. It's a dark brown color, but the camera can make it show shiny gold.


Both my Elcan and DD rails change color in the light. The DD rail is a VERY deep, dark brown. Nowhere near as light as the camera makes it out to be.


Thanks, good to know. I just didn't want to buy the 24K gold-plated MagPul CTR to match the RISS II FDE.
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 12:07:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By warpig8654:
Originally Posted By M4A1:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By Croft32:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:

Wrong rail color, Wrong stock, wrong grip, wrong fh, wrong buis, wrong trigger guard

Dare to be different!  


Nothin wrong with that, but we are discussing clones. That's simply an M4



You are correct.  These threads tend to fade far from the clone in discussion.


You gents realize that there can't be an accurate "clone" because operators have some discretion as to what they can put on their guns making for a lot of variances. A certain unit may not even issue what's been accepted as standard for the program outside of the rail.


Yes, that is 100% correct.  But some are way off in other threads.  YHM rail or Mapul MOE handguard, stainless 16 inch barrel for a MK18 thread etc.
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 12:12:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By 3XIraqvet:


You ain't gonna find a pure Block II out here, so I think all of the photos above are good reps of Block II.  The only Block II purists are the ones dinging folks on this blog for not following the menu.  We put what we want on our weapons and what our units can afford.  I do the same thing at home with my M4s.  Embrace the non-standarization, it's a fringe benefit of democracy.


it's not that we "ding" people for not being exact since there is no exact, people put shit on their "clones" that don't even have an NSN number. A true clone will only use parts with an NSN and even with "parts the operators add" it's not like other are switching out entire rails or grips and stocks. Maybe they'll add a personally owned optic or vertical grip but the trigger guard will never be a magpul guard.

MOE and other magpul furniture has no NSN
Black DD RIS II rails have no NSN
Troy sights have no NSN
Etc


I understand the dings for the trigger guard, I have one simply because my delicate skin has gotten blistered and chewed up a few times from that darn gap.  As far as the Troy sights, I've seen them as personally owned sights and I just prefer the look and function of them.  The KAC front sight is a fine piece but I have no love for the KAC or Matech rear sights.  I like having the little "wings" on each side of the peep.  They help me get centered faster than a little standalone peep.

For these reasons, I have deviated.  Ultimately, this is a fighting rifle, and I made changes to help me (at least feel like I can) fight better.  I don't have an armorer telling me what I can and can't do.
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 1:57:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By Will816:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By 3XIraqvet:


You ain't gonna find a pure Block II out here, so I think all of the photos above are good reps of Block II.  The only Block II purists are the ones dinging folks on this blog for not following the menu.  We put what we want on our weapons and what our units can afford.  I do the same thing at home with my M4s.  Embrace the non-standarization, it's a fringe benefit of democracy.


it's not that we "ding" people for not being exact since there is no exact, people put shit on their "clones" that don't even have an NSN number. A true clone will only use parts with an NSN and even with "parts the operators add" it's not like other are switching out entire rails or grips and stocks. Maybe they'll add a personally owned optic or vertical grip but the trigger guard will never be a magpul guard.

MOE and other magpul furniture has no NSN
Black DD RIS II rails have no NSN
Troy sights have no NSN
Etc


I understand the dings for the trigger guard, I have one simply because my delicate skin has gotten blistered and chewed up a few times from that darn gap.  As far as the Troy sights, I've seen them as personally owned sights and I just prefer the look and function of them.  The KAC front sight is a fine piece but I have no love for the KAC or Matech rear sights.  I like having the little "wings" on each side of the peep.  They help me get centered faster than a little standalone peep.

For these reasons, I have deviated.  Ultimately, this is a fighting rifle, and I made changes to help me (at least feel like I can) fight better.  I don't have an armorer telling me what I can and can't do.


I understand completely and upgrades should be made which help the operator do things more effectively.

I'm just pointing out that as a base "clone" the M4A1 block II doesn't have all of these personally owned things.
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 2:44:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By Will816:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By 3XIraqvet:


You ain't gonna find a pure Block II out here, so I think all of the photos above are good reps of Block II.  The only Block II purists are the ones dinging folks on this blog for not following the menu.  We put what we want on our weapons and what our units can afford.  I do the same thing at home with my M4s.  Embrace the non-standarization, it's a fringe benefit of democracy.


it's not that we "ding" people for not being exact since there is no exact, people put shit on their "clones" that don't even have an NSN number. A true clone will only use parts with an NSN and even with "parts the operators add" it's not like other are switching out entire rails or grips and stocks. Maybe they'll add a personally owned optic or vertical grip but the trigger guard will never be a magpul guard.

MOE and other magpul furniture has no NSN
Black DD RIS II rails have no NSN
Troy sights have no NSN
Etc


I understand the dings for the trigger guard, I have one simply because my delicate skin has gotten blistered and chewed up a few times from that darn gap.  As far as the Troy sights, I've seen them as personally owned sights and I just prefer the look and function of them.  The KAC front sight is a fine piece but I have no love for the KAC or Matech rear sights.  I like having the little "wings" on each side of the peep.  They help me get centered faster than a little standalone peep.

For these reasons, I have deviated.  Ultimately, this is a fighting rifle, and I made changes to help me (at least feel like I can) fight better.  I don't have an armorer telling me what I can and can't do.


I understand completely and upgrades should be made which help the operator do things more effectively.

I'm just pointing out that as a base "clone" the M4A1 block II doesn't have all of these personally owned things.


This is how the MK18 thread turned into the "Post pictures of your SBR" thread
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 2:52:37 PM EST



Originally Posted By superchi:



Originally Posted By Mattyvac:


Originally Posted By Will816:


Originally Posted By Mattyvac:


Originally Posted By 3XIraqvet:





You ain't gonna find a pure Block II out here, so I think all of the photos above are good reps of Block II.  The only Block II purists are the ones dinging folks on this blog for not following the menu.  We put what we want on our weapons and what our units can afford.  I do the same thing at home with my M4s.  Embrace the non-standarization, it's a fringe benefit of democracy.




it's not that we "ding" people for not being exact since there is no exact, people put shit on their "clones" that don't even have an NSN number. A true clone will only use parts with an NSN and even with "parts the operators add" it's not like other are switching out entire rails or grips and stocks. Maybe they'll add a personally owned optic or vertical grip but the trigger guard will never be a magpul guard.



MOE and other magpul furniture has no NSN

Black DD RIS II rails have no NSN

Troy sights have no NSN

Etc





I understand the dings for the trigger guard, I have one simply because my delicate skin has gotten blistered and chewed up a few times from that darn gap.  As far as the Troy sights, I've seen them as personally owned sights and I just prefer the look and function of them.  The KAC front sight is a fine piece but I have no love for the KAC or Matech rear sights.  I like having the little "wings" on each side of the peep.  They help me get centered faster than a little standalone peep.



For these reasons, I have deviated.  Ultimately, this is a fighting rifle, and I made changes to help me (at least feel like I can) fight better.  I don't have an armorer telling me what I can and can't do.




I understand completely and upgrades should be made which help the operator do things more effectively.



I'm just pointing out that as a base "clone" the M4A1 block II doesn't have all of these personally owned things.





This is how the MK18 thread turned into the "Post pictures of your SBR" thread


You mean MK18s don't come with MOE handguards?

 
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 3:01:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By superchi:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By Will816:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By 3XIraqvet:


You ain't gonna find a pure Block II out here, so I think all of the photos above are good reps of Block II.  The only Block II purists are the ones dinging folks on this blog for not following the menu.  We put what we want on our weapons and what our units can afford.  I do the same thing at home with my M4s.  Embrace the non-standarization, it's a fringe benefit of democracy.


it's not that we "ding" people for not being exact since there is no exact, people put shit on their "clones" that don't even have an NSN number. A true clone will only use parts with an NSN and even with "parts the operators add" it's not like other are switching out entire rails or grips and stocks. Maybe they'll add a personally owned optic or vertical grip but the trigger guard will never be a magpul guard.

MOE and other magpul furniture has no NSN
Black DD RIS II rails have no NSN
Troy sights have no NSN
Etc


I understand the dings for the trigger guard, I have one simply because my delicate skin has gotten blistered and chewed up a few times from that darn gap.  As far as the Troy sights, I've seen them as personally owned sights and I just prefer the look and function of them.  The KAC front sight is a fine piece but I have no love for the KAC or Matech rear sights.  I like having the little "wings" on each side of the peep.  They help me get centered faster than a little standalone peep.

For these reasons, I have deviated.  Ultimately, this is a fighting rifle, and I made changes to help me (at least feel like I can) fight better.  I don't have an armorer telling me what I can and can't do.


I understand completely and upgrades should be made which help the operator do things more effectively.

I'm just pointing out that as a base "clone" the M4A1 block II doesn't have all of these personally owned things.


This is how the MK18 thread turned into the "Post pictures of your SBR" thread


Aaaaand that's why I'm acting like a doody head when people are posting "their version"
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 3:05:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By superchi:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By Will816:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By 3XIraqvet:


You ain't gonna find a pure Block II out here, so I think all of the photos above are good reps of Block II.  The only Block II purists are the ones dinging folks on this blog for not following the menu.  We put what we want on our weapons and what our units can afford.  I do the same thing at home with my M4s.  Embrace the non-standarization, it's a fringe benefit of democracy.


it's not that we "ding" people for not being exact since there is no exact, people put shit on their "clones" that don't even have an NSN number. A true clone will only use parts with an NSN and even with "parts the operators add" it's not like other are switching out entire rails or grips and stocks. Maybe they'll add a personally owned optic or vertical grip but the trigger guard will never be a magpul guard.

MOE and other magpul furniture has no NSN
Black DD RIS II rails have no NSN
Troy sights have no NSN
Etc


I understand the dings for the trigger guard, I have one simply because my delicate skin has gotten blistered and chewed up a few times from that darn gap.  As far as the Troy sights, I've seen them as personally owned sights and I just prefer the look and function of them.  The KAC front sight is a fine piece but I have no love for the KAC or Matech rear sights.  I like having the little "wings" on each side of the peep.  They help me get centered faster than a little standalone peep.

For these reasons, I have deviated.  Ultimately, this is a fighting rifle, and I made changes to help me (at least feel like I can) fight better.  I don't have an armorer telling me what I can and can't do.


I understand completely and upgrades should be made which help the operator do things more effectively.

I'm just pointing out that as a base "clone" the M4A1 block II doesn't have all of these personally owned things.


This is how the MK18 thread turned into the "Post pictures of your SBR" thread


Aaaaand that's why I'm acting like a doody head when people are posting "their version"


We have created a monster!
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 4:05:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By superchi:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By Will816:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By 3XIraqvet:


You ain't gonna find a pure Block II out here, so I think all of the photos above are good reps of Block II.  The only Block II purists are the ones dinging folks on this blog for not following the menu.  We put what we want on our weapons and what our units can afford.  I do the same thing at home with my M4s.  Embrace the non-standarization, it's a fringe benefit of democracy.


it's not that we "ding" people for not being exact since there is no exact, people put shit on their "clones" that don't even have an NSN number. A true clone will only use parts with an NSN and even with "parts the operators add" it's not like other are switching out entire rails or grips and stocks. Maybe they'll add a personally owned optic or vertical grip but the trigger guard will never be a magpul guard.

MOE and other magpul furniture has no NSN
Black DD RIS II rails have no NSN
Troy sights have no NSN
Etc


I understand the dings for the trigger guard, I have one simply because my delicate skin has gotten blistered and chewed up a few times from that darn gap.  As far as the Troy sights, I've seen them as personally owned sights and I just prefer the look and function of them.  The KAC front sight is a fine piece but I have no love for the KAC or Matech rear sights.  I like having the little "wings" on each side of the peep.  They help me get centered faster than a little standalone peep.

For these reasons, I have deviated.  Ultimately, this is a fighting rifle, and I made changes to help me (at least feel like I can) fight better.  I don't have an armorer telling me what I can and can't do.


I understand completely and upgrades should be made which help the operator do things more effectively.

I'm just pointing out that as a base "clone" the M4A1 block II doesn't have all of these personally owned things.


This is how the MK18 thread turned into the "Post pictures of your SBR" thread


Aaaaand that's why I'm acting like a doody head when people are posting "their version"


I will agree with you on that.  I figure, at a minimum, the upper receiver should be right.  I won't do the 14.5" simply because of our laws here in Washington.  I don't want to commit to any particular extended flash hider until I get a suppressor.  It would suck to pin an expensive piece from brand x on it and then decide that I want a suppressor from brand y.  When I'm done with my degree next June, I will try like the dickens to get a job back in my home state of Idaho
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 4:36:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2020 3:11:20 AM EST by amuroray]
from goggle-fu
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 6:19:10 PM EST
Too bad the GL/SSC isn't in production, it would be perfect for my 12.5". Until then, it's a Kino with the new Centurion mid length FSP.
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 6:20:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By amuroray:
from goggle-fu
http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss5/kisgenp/SOPMODII.jpg


Dang-nabbit!  If only I'd gotten the FDE rail instead of the black one that I posted, I'd fit in a little better in this thread  
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 6:52:24 PM EST
To those who installed their RIS II themselves, is the locking nut and hardware able to be slipped on the breach side of the barrel? I'm installing my RIS II onto an LMT 14.5 that has already been pinned and low profile gas block added, but I can't ake the gas block off due to the fh being pinned.

Will the RIS II hardware slide over a low pro gas block?
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 7:00:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/9/2011 7:04:04 PM EST by Croft32]
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
To those who installed their RIS II themselves, is the locking nut and hardware able to be slipped on the breach side of the barrel? I'm installing my RIS II onto an LMT 14.5 that has already been pinned and low profile gas block added, but I can't ake the gas block off due to the fh being pinned.

Will the RIS II hardware slide over a low pro gas block?


You got it - it fits right over the low profile gas block.  I don't think the muzzle device will be a problem.  (it wasn't for me)
Link Posted: 7/9/2011 9:46:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By Croft32:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
To those who installed their RIS II themselves, is the locking nut and hardware able to be slipped on the breach side of the barrel? I'm installing my RIS II onto an LMT 14.5 that has already been pinned and low profile gas block added, but I can't ake the gas block off due to the fh being pinned.

Will the RIS II hardware slide over a low pro gas block?


You got it - it fits right over the low profile gas block.  I don't think the muzzle device will be a problem.  (it wasn't for me)


Awesome, thats what i wanted to hear. I'm not worried about the FH but I am worried about the low pro gas block .
Link Posted: 7/10/2011 2:41:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By Croft32:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
To those who installed their RIS II themselves, is the locking nut and hardware able to be slipped on the breach side of the barrel? I'm installing my RIS II onto an LMT 14.5 that has already been pinned and low profile gas block added, but I can't ake the gas block off due to the fh being pinned.

Will the RIS II hardware slide over a low pro gas block?


You got it - it fits right over the low profile gas block.  I don't think the muzzle device will be a problem.  (it wasn't for me)


Awesome, thats what i wanted to hear. I'm not worried about the FH but I am worried about the low pro gas block .


How are you going to get the DD barrel nut on?

Link Posted: 7/10/2011 9:00:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/10/2011 11:38:16 AM EST by Croft32]
Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By Croft32:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
To those who installed their RIS II themselves, is the locking nut and hardware able to be slipped on the breach side of the barrel? I'm installing my RIS II onto an LMT 14.5 that has already been pinned and low profile gas block added, but I can't ake the gas block off due to the fh being pinned.

Will the RIS II hardware slide over a low pro gas block?


You got it - it fits right over the low profile gas block.  I don't think the muzzle device will be a problem.  (it wasn't for me)


Awesome, thats what i wanted to hear. I'm not worried about the FH but I am worried about the low pro gas block .


How are you going to get the DD barrel nut on?


If you take off the low profile gas block, the barrel nut will fit over the barrel + pinned flash hider.

Put the gas block back on, slide the rail over and tighten the screws to the locking nut.



Link Posted: 7/10/2011 9:11:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/10/2011 9:12:21 AM EST by Mattyvac]


I was told that the barrel nut will fit over the low pro gas block, is this incorrect? I cannot take off the low progasblock
Link Posted: 7/10/2011 9:35:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:


I was told that the barrel nut will fit over the low pro gas block, is this incorrect? I cannot take off the low progasblock


I just installed a DD barrel nut, and I don't see it going over a gas block.
Link Posted: 7/10/2011 10:52:20 AM EST
Might have to buy a new upper with the SOCOM profile barrel and send it to Marvin pitts to get an NT4 flash hider permanently installed
Link Posted: 7/10/2011 12:11:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dan_Gray:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:


I was told that the barrel nut will fit over the low pro gas block, is this incorrect? I cannot take off the low progasblock


I just installed a DD barrel nut, and I don't see it going over a gas block.


The rail should slide over a low profile gas block. The barrel nut will not.
Link Posted: 7/10/2011 2:29:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By FloridaCreekIndian:
Originally Posted By Dan_Gray:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:


I was told that the barrel nut will fit over the low pro gas block, is this incorrect? I cannot take off the low progasblock


I just installed a DD barrel nut, and I don't see it going over a gas block.


The rail should slide over a low profile gas block. The barrel nut will not.


Fuckin crap. Looks like I have some drilling to do.

Originally Posted By DocBach:
Might have to buy a new upper with the SOCOM profile barrel and send it to Marvin pitts to get an NT4 flash hider permanently installed


You stop that

Link Posted: 7/10/2011 2:36:26 PM EST
I'm thinking of options here....do you guys think a low profile CLAMP ON gas block like the DD one shown here

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=594422&cm_mmc=Froogle-_-Gunsmithing%20-%20AR-15%20Parts%20(Not%20Magazines)-_-PriceCompListing-_-594422

Will slide over the flash hider? (a YHM PHANTOM)
Link Posted: 7/10/2011 2:39:51 PM EST
I doubt it, you will risk screwing up the gas block.
Link Posted: 7/10/2011 3:23:43 PM EST
painted

Link Posted: 7/10/2011 3:57:15 PM EST
I just tried drilling out my old FH let's just say, it's going to ADCO this week when the parts come in
Link Posted: 7/10/2011 4:13:01 PM EST
Dude, NT4 hider permanently attached! Operations Parts has a couple in stock still!!
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