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Link Posted: 12/16/2020 10:18:35 PM EST
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Originally Posted By pezboytate:


A modern day MWS is very easily distinguished from an early Block I. Change my mind.
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Idk. My issued one seems very identical to block 1s I've seen posted by cd and others.
Link Posted: 12/16/2020 10:21:55 PM EST
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Originally Posted By wissota4:

Idk. My issued one seems very identical to block 1s I've seen posted by cd and others.
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So Ta01nsn, car/sopmod, peq-2, NT4?
Link Posted: 12/16/2020 10:31:12 PM EST
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Originally Posted By LsuJon:
So Ta01nsn, car/sopmod, peq-2, NT4?
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No can for us and aimpoint.
Link Posted: 12/16/2020 10:39:40 PM EST
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Originally Posted By wissota4:

No can for us and aimpoint.
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Post a pic and we can pick it apart.
Link Posted: 12/16/2020 10:59:23 PM EST
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Originally Posted By pezboytate:


Post a pic and we can pick it apart.
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Lololol

For science!
Link Posted: 12/16/2020 11:06:36 PM EST
I hope this thread, which has been of great help and information to many, many enthusiasts (me included) of the SOPMOD Block rifles ,with some great sources and photos, does not get derailed by someone(s) who is trying to start trouble over certain accessories and what people are calling their rifles.  Who cares if someone is calling it a Block 1 or an MWS?  The intricacies and available accessories are just not always available, or maybe not at all available for that level of perfection and people have to work with what they can find.  OMG, his light has the wrong number stamped on it!  Let's go scorched earth!  This isn't GD.
Link Posted: 12/16/2020 11:10:13 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Guntoter:
I hope this thread, which has been of great help and information to many, many enthusiasts (me included) of the SOPMOD Block rifles ,with some great sources and photos, does not get derailed by someone(s) who is trying to start trouble over certain accessories and what people are calling their rifles.  Who cares if someone is calling it a Block 1 or an MWS?  The intricacies and available accessories are just not always available, or maybe not at all available for that level of perfection and people have to work with what they can find.  OMG, his light has the wrong number stamped on it!  Let's go scorched earth!  This isn't GD.
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I mean it's a clone thread of SOPMOD rifles not standard issue rifles. He was asked to post a photo of his issued rifle and we would point out the difference that separates it from a Block I besides the unit issuing the rifle.
Link Posted: 12/16/2020 11:12:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/16/2020 11:13:22 PM EST by Minuteman1636]
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Originally Posted By Guntoter:
 This isn't GD.
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Which is exactly why these specifically focused threads are created...to discuss exact specifics of a point in weapon system development.

People should not come into a group and expect the group to conform to them. If they don't like the specifics in place, they can simply move on. Once you surrender the specifics of the topic at hand, you might as well rename the thread General Discussion.
Link Posted: 12/16/2020 11:18:28 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Guntoter:
I hope this thread, which has been of great help and information to many, many enthusiasts (me included) of the SOPMOD Block rifles ,with some great sources and photos, does not get derailed by someone(s) who is trying to start trouble over certain accessories and what people are calling their rifles.  Who cares if someone is calling it a Block 1 or an MWS?  The intricacies and available accessories are just not always available, or maybe not at all available for that level of perfection and people have to work with what they can find.  OMG, his light has the wrong number stamped on it!  Let's go scorched earth!  This isn't GD.
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I know I'm ruining people's low budget LARPing by saying their SOPMOD clones aren't SOPMOD clones, sorry.

If all you can afford are non SOPMOD parts then build a non SOPMOD clone. It's seriously a lot easier to clone a regular Army M4 or M4A1 and it's basically what you already have so just proudly do that. There's no shame in it.

Chevrolets are built with a lot of the same parts as Cadillacs but I don't call my Chevy a Caddy.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 2:00:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2020 2:01:31 AM EST by tarheel7734]
So what about those of us that carried a block 1 with tao1nsn in Afghanistan, then decided to swap it out for the m68 before deployment to Iraq, does are sopmod all of a sudden become something else? Oh and it had the arms 40l as a buis, cause thats what we had in inventory.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 3:38:16 AM EST
Confusion will also follow as SF Groups were issued both SOPMOD components and mother Army.  So a SOPMOD can have a M68 on it.

CD
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 6:47:07 AM EST
Could always add MWS to the thread title if that gives some the warm and fuzzies.


At this rate it will end up being the same limited group of guys high fiving each other and discussing guns from yesteryear.  

I guess we could go back to guys bolting airsoft PEQs to their guns in order to win group appeal.

The variations are a wide swing dependent on branch/procurement/unit and many guys are not dropping ~$1k on a PEQ when not running NV gear.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 7:53:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2020 7:56:40 AM EST by pezboytate]
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Originally Posted By tarheel7734:
So what about those of us that carried a block 1 with tao1nsn in Afghanistan, then decided to swap it out for the m68 before deployment to Iraq, does are sopmod all of a sudden become something else? Oh and it had the arms 40l as a buis, cause thats what we had in inventory.
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Did you have no M4QD? Did you have accessories on your rifle in the early 2000s that didn't exist until the late 2000s or 2010s? I never said that it is impossible for a Block I to have an M68 or a 40L.

The majority of the rifles in this thread are an amalgam of MWS parts and Block I parts from the 1990s all the way to 2020 with no rhyme or reason. Is there anything wrong with owning a rifle like that? No, do whatever you want.

The issue is that these aren't clones of Block Is. People are calling them Block Is because of ignorance of what a Block I is and because Block I is cooler than a MWS. Just call it what it is. You can't will your rifle to be something it isn't.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 7:55:50 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Tigwelder1971:
Could always add MWS to the thread title if that gives some the warm and fuzzies.


At this rate it will end up being the same limited group of guys high fiving each other and discussing guns from yesteryear.  

I guess we could go back to guys bolting airsoft PEQs to their guns in order to win group appeal.

The variations are a wide swing dependent on branch/procurement/unit and many guys are not dropping ~$1k on a PEQ when not running NV gear.
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Yes, could do that. I think another guy and I suggested it. The only thing is that if a goal is to educate people about the difference, throwing them in together wouldn't necessarily help.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 9:28:17 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Tigwelder1971:
The variations are a wide swing dependent on branch/procurement/unit and many guys are not dropping ~$1k on a PEQ when not running NV gear.
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This is very true.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 10:12:05 AM EST
Curious as to how many approved accessories would be required in order to warrant participation here.


I'm all for accuracy in details but participation damn well may be near shut down.

Link Posted: 12/17/2020 10:21:08 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Tigwelder1971:
Curious as to how many approved accessories would be required in order to warrant participation here.


I'm all for accuracy in details but participation damn well may be near shut down.

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Fair statement with a valid point. The page title should be changed to cover the added subject matter.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 10:29:39 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Minuteman1636:


The page title should be changed to cover the added subject matter.
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This. OP would be in need of serious edit.  
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 10:32:43 AM EST
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Originally Posted By pezboytate:


Post a pic and we can pick it apart.
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I dont have a good pic on this phone. However, its m4 converted to m4a1 with 14.5 socom,Matech rear sight,Kac ras with panels and grips, side swivel, m68, car waffle or whatever stock you bring.

There are acogs in our mtoe also. We still have 14s and peq2s.

No suppressor or mount though.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 10:36:42 AM EST
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Originally Posted By wissota4:

I dont have a good pic on this phone. However, its m4 converted to m4a1 with 14.5 socom,Matech rear sight,Kac ras with panels and grips, side swivel, m68, car waffle or whatever stock you bring.

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Sounds absolutely horrid.  
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 10:38:10 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Tigwelder1971:
Curious as to how many approved accessories would be required in order to warrant participation here.


I'm all for accuracy in details but participation damn well may be near shut down.

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Whats really weird is you can build an acceptable block 1 clone in the cqbr thread thats period correct and validated by members who have had them issued and or work on them daily and by pics in the wild, but slap in on a 14.5 upper and its now a army mws and nothing more.

I understand the point being made, but at the same time you're going to find block 1s that are identical to a MWS m4/m4a1.

Its also funny how people get immediately proven wrong by the same guys who had all this shit. For science. Probably.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 10:38:51 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Tigwelder1971:


Sounds absolutely horrid.  
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Better then being the guy stuck with the saw lol.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 10:44:16 AM EST
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Originally Posted By wissota4:

Better then being the guy stuck with the saw lol.
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Originally Posted By wissota4:
Originally Posted By Tigwelder1971:


Sounds absolutely horrid.  

Better then being the guy stuck with the saw lol.

I'd have to agree with you.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 10:46:32 AM EST
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Originally Posted By wissota4:

I dont have a good pic on this phone. However, its m4 converted to m4a1 with 14.5 socom,Matech rear sight,Kac ras with panels and grips, side swivel, m68, car waffle or whatever stock you bring.

There are acogs in our mtoe also. We still have 14s and peq2s.

No suppressor or mount though.
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Early Block I wouldn't have the ambi safety, heavy barrel, latest rev RAS, Matech, CompM4 if that's what you mean by M68, TA31F if that's what you mean by ACOG...

So, are they distinguishable or not
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 10:48:53 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Minuteman1636:


The page title should be changed to cover the added subject matter.
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The thing is that this thread covers all the iterations of the 14.5 sopmod rifle adding the m4mws because it has some similar attachments just seems to muddy the water even further.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 10:50:33 AM EST
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Originally Posted By wissota4:

Whats really weird is you can build an acceptable block 1 clone in the cqbr thread thats period correct and validated by members who have had them issued and or work on them daily and by pics in the wild, but slap in on a 14.5 upper and its now a army mws and nothing more.

I understand the point being made, but at the same time you're going to find block 1s that are identical to a MWS m4/m4a1.

Its also funny how people get immediately proven wrong by the same guys who had all this shit. For science. Probably.
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Agreed man.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 10:50:58 AM EST
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Originally Posted By wissota4:

Whats really weird is you can build an acceptable block 1 clone in the cqbr thread thats period correct and validated by members who have had them issued and or work on them daily and by pics in the wild, but slap in on a 14.5 upper and its now a army mws and nothing more.

I understand the point being made, but at the same time you're going to find block 1s that are identical to a MWS m4/m4a1.

Its also funny how people get immediately proven wrong by the same guys who had all this shit. For science. Probably.
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I think it was a month or two ago that there was a similar argument in there or the Block II thread. I forget if it was started about poop stocks or if that was a different thing. It's the same issue in there really. They think anything with a 10.3" barrel and a RAS is a CQBR or Mk18 Mod 0 clone.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 10:53:41 AM EST
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Originally Posted By pezboytate:


Early Block I wouldn't have the ambi safety, heavy barrel, latest rev RAS, Matech, CompM4 if that's what you mean by M68, TA31F if that's what you mean by ACOG...

So, are they distinguishable or not
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This exactly. I asked specifically  ta01nsn because as it's the sopmod issued optic and mot the more common TA31 family of optics. I was not saying that comp 2s weren't correct for a block 1.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 11:02:43 AM EST
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Originally Posted By pezboytate:


Early Block I wouldn't have the ambi safety, heavy barrel, latest rev RAS, Matech, CompM4 if that's what you mean by M68, TA31F if that's what you mean by ACOG...

So, are they distinguishable or not
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Comp m2 in qrp mount. I dont look at the date on my ras lol. I just qualify with it and then make sure the triple 7s are up.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 11:03:04 AM EST
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Originally Posted By pezboytate:


I think it was a month or two ago that there was a similar argument in there or the Block II thread. I forget if it was started about poop stocks or if that was a different thing. It's the same issue in there really. They think anything with a 10.3" barrel and a RAS is a CQBR or Mk18 Mod 0 clone.
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I remember this also.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 11:29:45 AM EST
@pezboytate looking at your post, the M962 is correct for a Block I. Do you know if a fat body M951 would have been used at all for that period and what year they came on the scene?
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 11:42:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2020 11:44:24 AM EST by pezboytate]
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Originally Posted By Maddy21:
@pezboytate looking at your post, the M962 is correct for a Block I. Do you know if a fat body M951 would have been used at all for that period and what year they came on the scene?
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Lights like these (or combinations of these parts) have been seen in use in the early 2000s. It's whatever they purchased at the time.

Attachment Attached File

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 12:12:22 PM EST
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Originally Posted By pezboytate:


Lights like these (or combinations of these parts) have been seen in use in the early 2000s. It's whatever they purchased at the time.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/138579/_20201217_114010_JPG-1735389.JPG
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/138579/_20201217_114025_JPG-1735390.JPG
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Thanks!
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 1:26:07 PM EST
This has turned into quite the debate.  

I’ve built and sold and re-built quite a few Block I’s or MWS type builds over the years.  I’m even guilty of labeling everything a Block I at times until I really learned the nuances between the types.  

Here are three of mine that I’ve built (only own two currently).  Out of the three only one in my opinion fits as a Block I.  The other two are more MWS, but visually they all look very similar.  Unless you are really into cloning you probably wouldn’t pick out the differences.  



Link Posted: 12/17/2020 2:47:08 PM EST
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Originally Posted By HD2006:
This has turned into quite the debate.  

I’ve built and sold and re-built quite a few Block I’s or MWS type builds over the years.  I’m even guilty of labeling everything a Block I at times until I really learned the nuances between the types.  

Here are three of mine that I’ve built (only own two currently).  Out of the three only one in my opinion fits as a Block I.  The other two are more MWS, but visually they all look very similar.  Unless you are really into cloning you probably wouldn’t pick out the differences.  

https://i.imgur.com/8HBZho7.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/kRhRMkd.jpg
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The bottom one is a pretty good Block I clone. I could point out a few problems but I can tell some thought went into it and it wasn't just random parts thrown together.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 3:04:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2020 4:19:33 PM EST by 5thLegion]
Attachment Attached File


Recent pic - GG&G short grip is mine.

Edit to add: the rear sight was unit purchased to replace x3 magnifier, as was the stock.  

Pretty typical now older configurations with non-team guys like me have mix of personal/unit purchased parts.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 3:48:21 PM EST
I found a couple of these direct mount quadrant sights. Basically an aluminum block with a couple of holes in it. The quadrant sight was modified with a cutout to allow access to the screw. They only mount in the one location. They are compatible with the RIS and RAS.

Prototype SOPMOD?

Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 3:54:06 PM EST
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Originally Posted By pezboytate:


Early Block I wouldn't have the ambi safety, heavy barrel, latest rev RAS, Matech, CompM4 if that's what you mean by M68, TA31F if that's what you mean by ACOG...

So, are they distinguishable or not
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The comp m2 was the m68 before the comp m4 was. 4 moa dot and qrp mount, wilcox, or larue mount. Acog was tao1nsn.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 3:55:55 PM EST
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Originally Posted By tarheel7734:

The comp m2 was the m68 before the comp m4 was. 4 moa dot and qrp mount, wilcox, or larue mount. Acog was tao1nsn.
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Additionally, Comp-M's were used as well. It was my first issued 'M68 CCO'. Comp M's were also used early in SOPMOD.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 4:05:52 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Minuteman1636:


Additionally, Comp-M's were used as well. It was my first issued 'M68 CCO'. Comp M's were also used early in SOPMOD.
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Comp M adopted in 1997 a three year contract was signed with U.S. Army for 100 000 units.

Discontinued 1999

Link Posted: 12/17/2020 4:06:52 PM EST
Just to verify:

Aside from the Aimpoint 5000 in Nightforce A203s (just playing around with it), this is on the MWS side? I plan on getting a TA01NSN for it, but if I'm tracking correctly then this isn't a Block 1 at all. Everything on it is dated '99-'00-'01

Link Posted: 12/17/2020 4:09:02 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Minuteman1636:


Additionally, Comp-M's were used as well. It was my first issued 'M68 CCO'. Comp M's were also used early in SOPMOD.
View Quote

True. I think there are way too many configurations we had for people to be really picky abou7t block 1 vs mws. I used a surefire 6p on my gun. Others used the surefire vertical grip with light, others used the 952. When I finally build my block 1 to be as close to what I carried it will have a surefire closed tine on it because all my rifles have surefire muzzle devices on them. I will never have a knights suppressor so whats the point for me to have the kac muzzle device. It wont be completely clone correct, but it will be close.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 4:11:43 PM EST
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Originally Posted By CMCctx:
Just to verify:

Aside from the Aimpoint 5000 in Nightforce A203s (just playing around with it), this is on the MWS side? I plan on getting a TA01NSN for it, but if I'm tracking correctly then this isn't a Block 1 at all. Everything on it is dated '99-'00-'01

https://i.postimg.cc/sXzKN93T/PXL-20201215-163846014-2.jpg
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Off the top of my head the light is 2004, pressure switch is 2010s, and Matech is 2005.

No M4QD, tailcap on light is questionable for SOF.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 4:13:02 PM EST
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Originally Posted By 5thLegion:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/112468/2D3F6FE8-6BA4-4E2E-9F20-EABB99435185_jpe-1735728.JPG

Recent pic - GG&G short grip is mine.
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I always wonder how well the 553s are holding up. As in how many are extremely dim and just barely visible in broad daylight? Both the ones I had faded to the point that I sold them off and swore off 553s.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 4:23:06 PM EST
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Originally Posted By LsuJon:
I always wonder how well the 553s are holding up. As in how many are extremely dim and just barely visible in broad daylight? Both the ones I had faded to the point that I sold them off and swore off 553s.
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Had zero issues with it for seven months- minus one. Confirmed zero in county and windage was off slightly. Re-zeroed and shot whenever I got the chance out on BFC with no issues. Brightness was GTG.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 4:28:00 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pezboytate:


Off the top of my head the light is 2004, pressure switch is 2010s, and Matech is 2005.

No M4QD, tailcap on light is questionable for SOF.
View Quote

Great info. Gives me a direction to go. Thanks!
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 6:29:43 PM EST
HD2006 love your block 1 setup I have a identical setup just ordered a ta01nsn myself
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 2:48:32 AM EST
Just a heads up, there is already a thread for the MWS.  Looks like it died out a few years back though.


Official--M4-M4A1-MWS-Issued-Clone-Photo-and-Discussion-Thread
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 3:00:30 AM EST
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Originally Posted By shiftmx120:
Just a heads up, there is already a thread for the MWS.  Looks like it died out a few years back though.


Official--M4-M4A1-MWS-Issued-Clone-Photo-and-Discussion-Thread
View Quote


Noticed some of my old posts there.

CD
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 2:49:45 PM EST
Anyone know where I might find a Colt side sling swivel?
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