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Posted: 5/16/2005 10:32:38 AM EST
Surely the XM 8 will be adopted by the Army with so much positive fluff journalism going on in the media. How can the M16 withstand such a barrage announcing [more or less] its demise? The latest example is the American Rifleman. Three months ago I switched my NRA magazine back to the Rifleman from First Freedom, as a last resort to requesting that they save themselves the postage and stop mailing their worthless, boring, unimaginative, magazines. That would save me the time and effort of transferring the magazines from the mail box to the trash can.
BUT, to my shock and wonderment, they have actually had some interesting gun articles since I switched back to the Rifleman!! So, I told them so, and sent this letter:

"Kudos for the interesting articles regarding military type weaponry!! We hope this is a trend!! On a different note: I am amazed at how many [most if not all in the firearms media] 'fluff pieces' there are out there on the XM8!! That's not what we read and see out there on the Internet board posts by some of the people who are actually firing, and/or attempting to fire the XM8!! There, one will find quite a different story!! Maybe you ought to do some investigative journalism!!"

I doubt very seriously that they will take it seriously, or even print it. 266-23
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 10:59:42 AM EST
tag
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 10:59:48 AM EST
It seems the only people that have ever said the M16 is being replaced by the XM8 is HK themselves, and the other people responsible for pushing it. HK previously sold the design to someone else IIRC, so that should give a good idea as to where it's fate is headed if it's in fact true.
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 12:38:49 PM EST
old news, standard HK propaganda.
XM8=DOA

Link Posted: 5/16/2005 12:47:34 PM EST
The XM8 is too damn ugly to replace the M16.
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 12:48:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/16/2005 12:48:56 PM EST by repub18]
.
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 1:20:21 PM EST
how many times is this gonna be posted...? the M16A2 is NOT being replaced!! the Army denied the XM8 a while ago...sheesh
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 2:19:31 PM EST
DIE xm-8, DIE!!!!

m16 is here to stay

now if the military would get smart and change the caliber.....
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 2:31:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/16/2005 2:32:43 PM EST by model927]
Maybe we should wait and see how the Marines Leitner&wise gas piston conversion on their M4s goes as they L&W just finished the Marine contract for modified M4s and they have been field testing them since the beginning of may.I think this system will give every one what they want..a cleaner running less stress on parts more reliable M4..and cost wise it will be less for the conversion than a whole new weapon that the marines wouldnt be buying anyway.If this is accepted as the next M4 improvement all we need is some real good redesigned 5.56 ammo and the M16 family will be going for a long while more.
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 2:31:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/16/2005 4:15:30 PM EST by WIZZO_ARAKM14]

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
DIE xm-8, DIE!!!!

m16 is here to stay

now if the military would get smart and change the caliber.....



+1 on the M16 staying and changing the caliber.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 2:37:08 PM EST
What about the blended metal jacket that looks like ball ammo but is devastating when it hits.Keep the same caliber just make better performing ammo and fuck the hague convention.Hell 5.56 hollow points would be a great improvement.I think more money should be spent on a new 5.56 round and marksmanship..aka how to place those 5.56 rounds.There was a picture thread not long agao showing insurgents hit with 62 gr 5.56.The fight took place at 15 feet and it looked like one guys head had been hit with a sledge hammer but is was SS109...at real world combat ranges of under 50 yds 5.56 is fine.
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 2:55:00 PM EST
I have heard sooo much bullshit about the XM8 being ten times the rifle the M16 is. Then I hear about FNs rifles kicking HKs venerable XM8 ass in every SCAR trial event that the USSOCOM had with a rifle that does look like an M16 with just a gas piston. I don't believe anything from
HK anymore.

The day the US replaces the M16 and the M4 rifles is the day the US Army hands out Charged Ionized Particle Blasters out to soldiers.

When I see XM8's in the hands on US soldiers in vast numbers, and hear what the soldiers have to say about it.

+2 on the M16 staying but a redesigned bullet or entirely new caliber is needed.

Link Posted: 5/16/2005 3:17:13 PM EST
XM8 does not look too promising of a weapon
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 3:30:15 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 4:40:42 PM EST
^^A beret is just so wrong. Long live the M-16.
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 4:47:09 PM EST
Dont expect the M16 to be in service another 40 years. As to which gun is next is anyone's guess
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 4:51:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:
Dont expect the M16 to be in service another 40 years. As to which gun is next is anyone's guess



Why not the M14 is still being used, hard to walk away from somthing you know works.
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 5:14:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By usagold:

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:
Dont expect the M16 to be in service another 40 years. As to which gun is next is anyone's guess



Why not the M14 is still being used, hard to walk away from somthing you know works.



Cant have two standard issue rifles for longer than a than a transition period. The M14 exists as a 2nd line weapon with mission specific abilities that the M16 cannot match.

The same wont be true for the M16. There would be no benefit in keeping it if a new 5.56 or 6.8 rifle is adopted
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 5:21:52 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 5:46:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/16/2005 5:48:40 PM EST by boofus]
I'm hoping the FN SCAR becomes more than the special operations rifle and is adopted as the standard. The AK piston type action solves most of the problems with the M16 and it can use exactly the same magazines that there are millions of. No need for new plastic mags like the XM8.

The FNC 3rd burst mechanism is better than the M16A2 anyway. It will always fire 3 shots, even if you let go of the trigger midway through.
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 5:49:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 6:11:23 PM EST
I predict this....the leitner wise conversion will be so reliable and cost effective that after finding a capable .223 bullet the design the M4 one day goes to polymer uppers and lowers...I think the M16 has the potential to be around another 40 years if materials used in its manufacture change...with the L&W conversion the Army can have its XM8 in an already familiar design with the reliability of the gas piston....and the basic M16 design garuntees not to over burden the weapons support system logisticaly...a new designed bullet and well be set for a long time to come..then expect the design to be around until we start issuing laser pistols and rifles.
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 6:17:56 PM EST

the leitner wise conversion will be so reliable and cost effective


Link Posted: 5/16/2005 6:21:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/16/2005 6:23:14 PM EST by MEGR]
Call me crazy, but I think that at the most, they should simply replace the M-16's 5.56 uppers with 6.8mm uppers. Think of the freedom of switching calibers and such. Hell, let's give our troops more freedom. Let's give them access to 7.62x39, 6.5, 9mm, .45 cal, .458 SOCOM, .308, etc.! I love the M-16's versatility! I think it has a few more decades, but that may be just me!

Nothing against HK (they put out hi-quality firearms, no doubt), but like previous posters, I would like the US military to stick to American arms.

PS: I have nothing against foreign arms, just showing my patriotism.
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 7:05:12 PM EST
Hey variablebinary like it or not the Marines are using the L&W M4s in the field and before that 3 years of design and testing and frequent visits by the military,They already have a RAS for it not made by knights and before that 40,000 rounds with out cleaning.......so like it or not I think its gonna be the next design upgrade for the M4...we shall see.
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 6:51:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By twistedcomrade:
^^A beret is just so wrong. Long live the M-16.


Better a Beret then a c--t cap. Always hated that damn thing cept it was easy to slip behind your belt when you took it off.
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 7:06:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 7:13:05 AM EST




Link Posted: 5/17/2005 7:31:08 AM EST
XM8 Video - check out army times

XM8
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 7:39:39 AM EST
The XM8 is uglier than a dog's "A" hole. What a stupid looking rifle----plastic piece of shit!!
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 9:58:08 AM EST
Until I actually shoot one I won't say it's a POS... but I will say that there is no need for it. The M16/M4s are perfectly fine and work just as well. A rifle that claims to be only slightly more accurate doesn't seem to be enough justification to blow billions on replacing the current platform.

As far as I'm concerned they haven't made any huge breakthrough in weapons technology that would warrant the phasing out of the M16/M4. Short of phasers I can't imagien what'll be an improvement in my lifetime.
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 10:10:31 AM EST
I can't imaging that the AR is going to die, personally I can't find any reason to why anyone would.I searched for months, gone to the local libraries, searched the web up and down to even talking with family members high up the totem pole in the Armed Forces and there is no indication of the demise of the AR. Am I missing something here. Long live the AR, thats what I see in its future and so does my relatives.
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 10:14:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 10:26:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
...so you missed a couple years worth of media fluff in the late 80s/early 90s on THIS POS:
www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/AROICW.jpg



What a flippin beast that thing is. What idiot in their right mind would want to hump that thing around the desert?

If that ever made it into full production and issue it's be the best sequel to the movie "The Pentagon Wars".
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 10:34:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/17/2005 10:34:56 AM EST by Lumpy196]
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 10:39:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
That would be the OICW, or the Objective Individual Combat Weapon.
HK had a hand in that too



Yes, I know what it is... was... should have been...
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 12:50:07 PM EST
I read an article about the Xm8 in a magazine just today, the title of the article? "Fixing the M16" what exactly is wrong with it, other than a few stories of the ammo not stopping people. This magazine is still pretty new, guess they forgot to look and see that the military rejected the Xm8. But it sure is an ugly rifle, and the way this article is written I don't see how it was an improvement. Anyone read anything on what they say was supposed to be the improvements were? This one said it was either configured to fire 5.56 or the 6.8, just change out the current rifles to 6.8 if that what the problem is. Now my pointless rant is over with, sorry for wasting seconds of your guys lives.
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 1:03:02 PM EST
And the beast in the photo above only weighed 17 pounds according to an Army Recruiter I wes talking to. If it comes to that, give me a Garand.
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 1:08:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By ISED8U:
The XM8 is too damn ugly to replace the M16.




It's not about ugly it is about function. And to whoever started this post check your current events the replacement rifle cotests is open again with 2 other major competitors. It is more likely the FN SCAR will replace the M16 and M4. The XM8 has not fared well in open competition.
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 1:33:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/17/2005 1:34:34 PM EST by AgentFork]

Originally Posted By Mattl:
The XM8 has not fared well in open competition.



Agreed. A few of my friends are HK fanboys, and now they are eating crow. AR-15/M16=win. I didn't like the XM8, only the concept of a lighter, cleaner weapon.

If the G36 didn't rock the boat, why would a G36 in drag be the next big thing?
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 2:30:58 PM EST
The only thing that will replace the M16 is a rail gun. IE magnetic propulstion
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 2:41:17 PM EST
I'm surprised FN isn't gloating more than HK. They've got an official contract atleast.
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 2:48:02 PM EST
today's M16, aka the M4 is a far cry from the M16A1. As warfare becomes less and less distant between the combatants and technology becomes cheaper and cheaper, even the M4 is doomed. Most of us are rooting for the 6.8 PC (?), if adopted, it'll become what? the M17? Even the beloved Colt 1911 went wayside to the Beretta M9. But when all said and done the venerable Ma Deue and B52 will still be alive and kicking
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 3:03:50 PM EST
I didn't know the US was still issuing the M16



I think it's called the "M16A3" now. M16 was slick sided pencil barreled.
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 3:06:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
www.mattandpamazon.com/images/matt/arfcom/recycle.jpg
www.mattandpamazon.com/images/matt/arfcom/xm8.jpg

www.mattandpamazon.com/images/matt/arfcom/xm8com.jpg


What's funny is how he was a milk man in the beginning and a mail man at the end.
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 3:54:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 4:01:19 PM EST
blah, blah, blah. not gonna happen!!!
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 4:15:31 PM EST
I definitly agree that the M-16 type weapon is on its way out, but the XM8 does not look like something that would be a suitable replacement. The ability of the M-16 type weapon to be "customized" is one feature that the new service rifle will most likley have.
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 6:05:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By 266-23:
Surely the XM 8 will be adopted by the Army with so much positive fluff journalism going on in the media. How can the M16 withstand such a barrage announcing [more or less] its demise? The latest example is the American Rifleman.




...so you missed a couple years worth of media fluff in the late 80s/early 90s on THIS POS:

www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/AROICW.jpg


+1 & 20 YEARS..... PURE VAPORWARE
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 6:13:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By AgentFork:

Originally Posted By Mattl:
The XM8 has not fared well in open competition.



Agreed. A few of my friends are HK fanboys, and now they are eating crow. AR-15/M16=win. I didn't like the XM8, only the concept of a lighter, cleaner weapon.

If the G36 didn't rock the boat, why would a G36 in drag be the next big thing?




Don't get me wrong the M16 is on it's last legs it just won't be the XM8 replacing it.
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 6:17:37 PM EST
I don't know whether or not the AR type weapons will be replaced or not.......but I am praying that they are not replaced. If it isn't broke, why try to fix it? I am in love with the M16/M4 type weapons.

hail.gif All hail the M16's hail.gif
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