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Posted: 10/23/2004 8:03:42 PM EST
Does anyone have a picture of an M16A4 with RAS numbers? And for you guys in the military, how often do you encounter an M16A4 with RAS numbers? Are they more common with or without RAS numbers?



Scott
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 2:21:03 AM EST
All of our (KAC) M5 RAS Forends delivered to the US Military start their numbering from the rear at #14 (B for bottom, L for Left, R for right, T for top rail). E.g., T-14.
The M4 Carbine RAS is thus numbered on thre top rail, T-14 thru T-28 at the front end.
The M5 RAS (which defines an M16A4) also starts at T-14 but I can't remember the number at the front, as I am at home. I will check out one at work tommorow and post back here, but I am pretty sure its #42 on th etop & bottom rails.
The bottom rail of the M5 is numbered same as the top, but the sides are a little short at the front because the last couple of grooves on both sides had to be given up to allow mounting of the M203 with our "QD" Latch.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 7:49:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By coldblue:
All of our (KAC) M5 RAS Forends delivered to the US Military start their numbering from the rear at #14 (B for bottom, L for Left, R for right, T for top rail). E.g., T-14.
The M4 Carbine RAS is thus numbered on thre top rail, T-14 thru T-28 at the front end.
The M5 RAS (which defines an M16A4) also starts at T-14 but I can't remember the number at the front, as I am at home. I will check out one at work tommorow and post back here, but I am pretty sure its #42 on th etop & bottom rails.
The bottom rail of the M5 is numbered same as the top, but the sides are a little short at the front because the last couple of grooves on both sides had to be given up to allow mounting of the M203 with our "QD" Latch.



coldblue,

thanks for you help, but I am asking about the upper receiver, not the RAS itself.

Scott
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 5:18:10 AM EST
bump
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 6:27:08 AM EST
You must be talking about what are more commonly refered to as 'T markings'. I believe that the T markings are in the mil-spec for the A4 and should be present on all of them.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 8:02:03 AM EST
The M16A4 rifles currently shipping from FNMI have T-markings on the upper receiver, under the carry handle. They are marked T2 through T12, starting from the rear (charging handle end).

Hope this helps,
Clint
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 8:38:42 AM EST
Does anyone know about Colts?
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 11:24:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By scottryan:
Does anyone know about Colts?


Colt doesn't make M-16's.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 12:25:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:

Originally Posted By scottryan:
Does anyone know about Colts?


Colt doesn't make M-16's.




Link Posted: 10/26/2004 12:31:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By coldblue:
The M5 RAS (which defines an M16A4)



When you add a RAS to a M16A4 you have a MWS, there are A4s out there without the RAS.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 1:44:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By Str8shot:

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:

Originally Posted By scottryan:
Does anyone know about Colts?


Colt doesn't make M-16's.







FN makes them...
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 4:50:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2004 4:50:52 PM EST by scottryan]
Colt currently makes the M16A2 and M16A4 also. There are pictures floating around here to prove it.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 5:03:57 PM EST
I just saw a Colt M16 A4 at the AUSA convention in DC today. Colt does still make the M16A4. I took off the the deatachable sight and there are no T markings on a colt made upper. The A4 upper also has the F marked front sight base. They also had a Marine marked Colt Automatic Rifle. It is a heavy barreled M16 with the square handguards and a parker hale detachable type bipod. The weapon's serial number was MC000016. It also had USMC inscribed on the mag well on the left side. Sorry that I do not have photos.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 5:10:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2004 5:12:09 PM EST by DvlDog]
nice job marksman,str8shot ...you got owned i see brand new Colt M16s everyday. clueless you are.

its not often we see Coldblue get corrected, STLRN, how are A4s being issued. ive yet to see one up close.



Col. Lutz, good to see you back here. you knowledge and experience was missed.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 5:15:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2004 5:19:15 PM EST by Marksman14]

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
nice job marksman,str8shot ...you got owned i see brand new Colt M16s everyday. clueless you are.

its not often we see Coldblue get corrected, STLRN, how are A4s being issued. ive yet to see one up close.



Col. Lutz, good to see you back here. you knowledge and experience was missed.



Owned? All I said was that FN makes them.

Was I wrong? I don't think so. I didn't really know what the BS flag was raised for, so I threw in that I KNEW FN has a nice big fat contract to make those rifles for the government.

After re-reading, it seems as if str8shot raised the flag because someone said colt doesn't make M16's. How is anyone clueless here? The only person here showing any signs of cluelessness would be you and your wonderful typing skills.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 5:31:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
nice job marksman,str8shot ...you got owned i see brand new Colt M16s everyday. clueless you are.

its not often we see Coldblue get corrected, STLRN, how are A4s being issued. ive yet to see one up close.



Col. Lutz, good to see you back here. you knowledge and experience was missed.



Most everyone comes as a MWS, but there are a few without the RAS.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 9:02:32 AM EST
anyone else know anything?
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 9:26:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By scottryan:
Colt currently makes the M16A2 and M16A4 also. There are pictures floating around here to prove it.


clearly you're a
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 5:13:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
nice job marksman,str8shot ...you got owned i see brand new Colt M16s everyday. clueless you are.

its not often we see Coldblue get corrected, STLRN, how are A4s being issued. ive yet to see one up close.



Col. Lutz, good to see you back here. you knowledge and experience was missed.




DvlDog,

I never mind being corrected when I'm wrong about something that I post, however you should re-read my post. I raised a BS flag when some Colt-bashing pogue just had to chime in with some "words of wisdom" to the effect that "Colt doesn't make M16's". That statement is pure bullshit, and I called it.

I hope that this explanation is clear enough for you!
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 2:44:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By STLRN:

Originally Posted By coldblue:
The M5 RAS (which defines an M16A4)



When you add a RAS to a M16A4 you have a MWS, there are A4s out there without the RAS.



I agree. However, the way the Army's Rock Island Arsenal explained it to me is that if a M16A4 does not have the M5 RAS installed, its a M16A3, i.e., with standard plastic A2 handguards either waiting delivery of the RAS later, or assigned to rear echelon troops not destined to ever receive lasers, flashlights, etc., so the Army is not provisioning their rifles with rail forends.
Needless to say, I certainly can be wrong on this A3/A4 thing as there are so many sources of definitions out there. I also think other elements of the definition are the 3-round burst control and flat-top upper receiver--both being part of the A3 and A4 definition.

Two questions I still have is (1) does the A4 have the feed ramp angle changes of the M4/M4A1, and (2) does the A3/A4 have the same height front sight tower of the A2 since they both use the reomovable carrying handle of the carbine?
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:51:46 AM EST
Well, my ARNG replaced the Colt M16A2 with the FN M16A4 back in 2002. However, we did'nt receive the RAS systems until we were in pre-deployment for Iraq. We kept no A2s for issue to "rear area types" but issued the A4s, M68s, and RAS to everybody in the battalion including ghe support personnel. The rifles are also marked "M16A4" on the lower receiver. The RAS does not change the nomenclature of the weapon itself. Also, the A4s do have the feedramp cuts and the FSB appears to be the same as the A2.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 4:57:49 AM EST
Interesting. Thought it was the other way around for the A4. No feed ramp cuts and the M4 "F" marked front sight tower.

Mick
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:25:27 AM EST
Extended feedramps are not spec on a Colt rifle, only on carbines.


The M16A4 does have the F stamped front sight base because it is a flattop. All flattops, reguardless of barrel length have an F stamped front sight base or a dimensional equivalent FSB.


The M16A3 is a fixed carry handle rifle with semi and full selector positions.

The lack of a RAS still makes an M16A4 an M16A4.
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