M16A1 Rubber Duck Question

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - M16A1 Rubber Duck Question

Posted: 8/10/2011 7:43:06 PM EDT

picked up this m16a1 rubber duck. not sure why but the magazine was crudely sawed off. it has a metal barrel, real fsb and flash hider.

looked a little closer and it's an actual cast FSB...SCORE!!!!

Any idea what these markings mean on the stock?

Right side - DVC - T 7 - 83
Left side - TASO FG
D 9 1109

Stock has a type E sling swivel, can't tell what the buttplate is due to the rubber flash on the rear.

Anyone else have one? The carry handle looks like it's drooping, is that normal with rubber ducks?

Posted: 8/10/2011 10:02:45 PM EDT

[#1]

I know––it's not retro––but my duck's an A2 carbine (and a gift from Morg308).
No handle sag, but it annoys me that there's no channel through the handle for a sight picture.
'Course it would also be nice if the stock extended...

So are you gonna try to salvage that cast FSB and replace it with something a bit newer?

Posted: 8/10/2011 10:22:41 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
I know––it's not retro––but my duck's an A2 carbine (and a gift from Morg308).
No handle sag, but it annoys me that there's no channel through the handle for a sight picture.
'Course it would also be nice if the stock extended...

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt247/OlGunner/duck3.jpg

So are you gonna try to salvage that cast FSB and replace it with something a bit newer?

well i took a look and it's a M VP 12 barrel. anyone know how it's attached? i may have to sacrifice the rubber duck if i can salvage the barrel. can't tell if the barrel is any good though. also the upper is made of steel under the rubber. there's some cracks in the rubber and a magnet does stick. anyone x-ray one before

Posted: 8/10/2011 10:46:51 PM EDT

[#3]

Don't waste your time Boywonder.Barrel is likely plugged like all the other ones I've seen,and you can't remove the HGs,and a whole bunch of other things that make it not worth it.

Posted: 8/10/2011 10:48:42 PM EDT

[#4]

Rubber ducks were usually made from worn out, shot out rifles! Don't get your hopes up on salvaging any parts! My advice is keep it the way it is! You could try to adapt some type of magazine?

Posted: 8/10/2011 10:49:16 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Don't waste your time Boywonder.Barrel is likely plugged like all the other ones I've seen,and you can't remove the HGs,and a whole bunch of other things that make it not worth it.

so i wonder if they used old shot out barrels for these. would be interesting to see how they made it since it'a normal barrel, a steel upper, solid rubber handguards/stock/lower? it would be interesting to get an x-ray of one.

Posted: 8/10/2011 10:50:03 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Rubber ducks were usually made from worn out, shot out rifles! Don't get your hopes up on salvaging any parts! My advice is keep it the way it is! You could try to adapt some type of magazine?

wonder why the hacksawed the magazine off it.

any ideas what those markings on the stock mean?

Posted: 8/11/2011 3:37:33 AM EDT

[#7]

How much are these going for? I know where a couple are but need to know value before i try to get them. Thanks.

Posted: 8/11/2011 4:52:04 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Wonder why the hacksawed the magazine off it.

Kalifornia?

Posted: 8/11/2011 5:29:22 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
How much are these going for? I know where a couple are but need to know value before i try to get them. Thanks.

CoC does not allow us to do appraisals outside this thread:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/523435_OFFICIAL_APPRAISAL_THREAD_REQUESTS_FOR_APPRAISALS_ONLY_IN_THIS_THREAD.html

I didn't pay too much for it.

Posted: 8/11/2011 5:30:08 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Wonder why the hacksawed the magazine off it.

Kalifornia?

heh it was CA compliant, the magazine was non-detachable

Posted: 8/11/2011 5:32:05 AM EDT

[#11]

Possible that mag was sawed off so as to not snag on webgear while doing water survival course etc.

Posted: 8/11/2011 5:57:45 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Possible that mag was sawed off so as to not snag on webgear while doing water survival course etc.

cool. hopefully someone can identify those markings on the stock.

Posted: 8/11/2011 6:19:48 AM EDT

[#13]

I remember using these in basic. lol... woudln't mind having one for shits and giggles someday.

Posted: 8/11/2011 6:26:53 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Possible that mag was sawed off so as to not snag on webgear while doing water survival course etc.

cool. hopefully someone can identify those markings on the stock.

Here's an AK witht he same numbers. I was thinking it might be a Unit number designation, but being on an AK too may mean it's a mold or part number.
http://www.listityourselfauctions.com/detail.asp?id=8706

My rubber duck was cut down by the 20th SOS for water operations to simulate CAR size. Barrel and stock were cut.
Serial#804005, Forged FSB

Posted: 8/11/2011 6:36:45 AM EDT

[#15]

Those numbers are on all old USGI rubberducks I have seen or used. I believe they are mold/manufacture numbers. We have used an assortment of old A2 ducks in the past couple years. Interestingly they used both A1 and A2 barrels on them. They probably have a warehouse full of out of service barrels and use what they have.

Posted: 8/11/2011 6:55:15 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Possible that mag was sawed off so as to not snag on webgear while doing water survival course etc.

cool. hopefully someone can identify those markings on the stock.

Here's an AK witht he same numbers. I was thinking it might be a Unit number designation, but being on an AK too may mean it's a mold or part number.
http://www.listityourselfauctions.com/detail.asp?id=8706

My rubber duck was cut down by the 20th SOS for water operations to simulate CAR size. Barrel and stock were cut.
Serial#804005, Forged FSB

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/halpark/DSC00665.jpg

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/halpark/DSC00667.jpg

i'll check my serial later but it looks to be the same. that would explain the markings being the same on all these too.

Posted: 8/11/2011 10:06:34 AM EDT

[#17]

Place holder for rubber duck photo to follow.

Doc

Posted: 8/11/2011 10:18:42 AM EDT

[#18]

I agree it wouldn't be worth trying to salvage a barrel from one of these––even if you could, I doubt they have any life left in them––but it might be worth looking closely at the cast FSB. I'm guessing the flash hider can be removed, so if the pins can be driven out––that FSB might be worth repurposing.

Posted: 8/11/2011 1:27:43 PM EDT

[#19]

I have one with the same serial number.

These are usually molded around unserviceable barrels or, a piece of pipe (with the FSB and flash suppressor molded plastic). Trying to salvage the barrel would only result in destroying a valuable collectible.

Wpns Man

Posted: 8/11/2011 1:33:42 PM EDT

[#20]

TASO FG is Training Aids Support Organization Fort Gordon GA.

The Ft Gordon Training Aids Support Center (TASC) fabricates simulated munitions and weapons used to train members of all military services worldwide. An example is land mine kits prepared for units deploying to Bosnia, Afghanistan and Iraq to train on detection and disarmament.

I wouldn't do much more than try to swap out the front sight for a more common one. Anything else will just destroy the Rubber Duck for a barrel that is unserviceable.

During my first tour of duty in Berlin, 89-90, I had a rather extensive collection of modern Soviet shit, and word got around to me that one of the line doggies had a rubber duck RPG7 he was going to make a lamp from. I bought it from him for $100 I think.

So there were my friend and I sporting KGB Border Guards camo uniforms with RPG7 and AKM, drinking beer and creating fake photos to send home.

Then the Wall came down, and that shit was all over the place, a dime a dozen.

Posted: 8/11/2011 5:09:37 PM EDT

[#21]

Here's a picture of mine, it's the A2 carbine model. I paid $40 for it from a gun show, it was missing the front half of the carry handle. I hack sawed that off and gorilla glued a CAA carry handle from the parts box onto it. It's kinda cool now cause I can look through the sights on it. It has a 14.5'' FN marked barrel on it, which I thought was interesting. Since it was broken when I got it, I almost went ahead and modified it to take a real buffer tube and stock. I'm still kicking the idea around though.

Posted: 8/11/2011 5:49:21 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
TASO FG is Training Aids Support Organization Fort Gordon GA.

The Ft Gordon Training Aids Support Center (TASC) fabricates simulated munitions and weapons used to train members of all military services worldwide. An example is land mine kits prepared for units deploying to Bosnia, Afghanistan and Iraq to train on detection and disarmament.

I wouldn't do much more than try to swap out the front sight for a more common one. Anything else will just destroy the Rubber Duck for a barrel that is unserviceable.

During my first tour of duty in Berlin, 89-90, I had a rather extensive collection of modern Soviet shit, and word got around to me that one of the line doggies had a rubber duck RPG7 he was going to make a lamp from. I bought it from him for $100 I think.

So there were my friend and I sporting KGB Border Guards camo uniforms with RPG7 and AKM, drinking beer and creating fake photos to send home.

Then the Wall came down, and that shit was all over the place, a dime a dozen.

cool thx for clearing up the markings on the stock. my serial looks to be the same. i guess they have several molds from the same lower for rifles and carbines.

do you guys with them find that a magnet sticks to the upper?

i won't be sacrificing it but if i need a cast fsb, at least i know where one is :)

Posted: 8/11/2011 5:51:29 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Here's a picture of mine, it's the A2 carbine model. I paid $40 for it from a gun show, it was missing the front half of the carry handle. I hack sawed that off and gorilla glued a CAA carry handle from the parts box onto it. It's kinda cool now cause I can look through the sights on it. It has a 14.5'' FN marked barrel on it, which I thought was cool. Since it was broken when I got it, I almost went ahed and modified it to take a real buffer tube and stock. I'm still kicking the idea around though.

http://i52.tinypic.com/5m9vu9.jpg

how'd you mod it to take a real stock? did you thread the rubber for a buffer tube? is the lower solid rubber?

Posted: 8/11/2011 5:56:50 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
TASO FG is Training Aids Support Organization Fort Gordon GA.

The Ft Gordon Training Aids Support Center (TASC) fabricates simulated munitions and weapons used to train members of all military services worldwide. An example is land mine kits prepared for units deploying to Bosnia, Afghanistan and Iraq to train on detection and disarmament.

I wouldn't do much more than try to swap out the front sight for a more common one. Anything else will just destroy the Rubber Duck for a barrel that is unserviceable.

During my first tour of duty in Berlin, 89-90, I had a rather extensive collection of modern Soviet shit, and word got around to me that one of the line doggies had a rubber duck RPG7 he was going to make a lamp from. I bought it from him for $100 I think.

So there were my friend and I sporting KGB Border Guards camo uniforms with RPG7 and AKM, drinking beer and creating fake photos to send home.

Then the Wall came down, and that shit was all over the place, a dime a dozen.

cool thx for clearing up the markings on the stock. my serial looks to be the same. i guess they have several molds from the same lower for rifles and carbines.

do you guys with them find that a magnet sticks to the upper?

i won't be sacrificing it but if i need a cast fsb, at least i know where one is :)

Yes a magnet sticks to my upper too; especially around the forward assist bump.

Posted: 8/11/2011 6:03:30 PM EDT

[#25]

Where could I find some rubber ducks? 6-12 of them mix of carbine and a1.

Posted: 8/11/2011 6:10:40 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Where could I find some rubber ducks? 6-12 of them mix of carbine and a1.

About a year ago, an outfit was selling off prop guns (rubber) from "The Pacific" If I recall, they had a lot of other rubber prop guns. Try google search "Pacific movie guns"

Posted: 8/11/2011 6:11:14 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Where could I find some rubber ducks? 6-12 of them mix of carbine and a1.

you see them at shows, not sure if anyone has them in quantity. prices are all over the place on them since there really isn't a good source for them.

Posted: 8/11/2011 6:56:56 PM EDT

[#28]

Boywonder, I didn't mod it to take a real stock yet, although I might.Haven't decided how I'll tackle that one yet.

Posted: 8/11/2011 7:38:30 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Boywonder, I didn't mod it to take a real stock yet, although I might.Haven't decided how I'll tackle that one yet.

find someone with the tooling to finish out 0% receivers, they probably have the tap for the buffer tube and even if you're a little off, it'll be ok since it's a non functional display piece.

Posted: 8/11/2011 8:22:21 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Boywonder, I didn't mod it to take a real stock yet, although I might.Haven't decided how I'll tackle that one yet.

Ive got a dented buffer tube that would suit well for the project

Posted: 8/11/2011 11:54:44 PM EDT

[#31]

Here's a shot at decoding the gibberish:

Right side - DVC - T 7 - 83 = Device, T7, 1983 (these are a guess). But whatever, this is the nomenclature of the rubber duck. The 1991 edition of the Combat Water Survival Manual (TC 21-21) references it by this name on p. iv in the front matter: "In this publication, the terms "rifle" and "M16" mean M16 training aid (DVC-T7-83)."

Left side - TASO FG = Training Aids Support Office, Fort Gordon (Georgia). Smaller posts had a TASC (Training Aids Support Center) and later the two were renamed to "Training and Audiovisual..." They're now caled "Enterprise Multimedia Centers" (I am not making this up). Department of the Army civilian employees manned these facilities.

The rubber ducks were molded locally at the larger forts/bases and contain varying parts of obsolete M16s. Yes, the collapsing carrying handle is rather normal. There is no channel in the handle because the two-part mold can't have a reverse cut.

D 9 1109 = beats me with a stick, possibly a contract number.

Also beats me why someone sawed the mag off. He may have intended to "upgrade" to a 30-round mag.

Posted: 8/12/2011 12:17:25 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Here's a shot at decoding the gibberish:

Right side - DVC - T 7 - 83 = Device, T7, 1983 (these are a guess). But whatever, this is the nomenclature of the rubber duck. The 1991 edition of the Combat Water Survival Manual (TC 21-21) references it by this name on p. iv in the front matter: "In this publication, the terms "rifle" and "M16" mean M16 training aid (DVC-T7-83)."

Left side - TASO FG = Training Aids Support Office, Fort Gordon (Georgia). Smaller posts had a TASC (Training Aids Support Center) and later the two were renamed to "Training and Audiovisual..." They're now caled "Enterprise Multimedia Centers" (I am not making this up). Department of the Army civilian employees manned these facilities.

The rubber ducks were molded locally at the larger forts/bases and contain varying parts of obsolete M16s. Yes, the collapsing carrying handle is rather normal. There is no channel in the handle because the two-part mold can't have a reverse cut.

D 9 1109 = beats me with a stick, possibly a contract number.

Also beats me why someone sawed the mag off. He may have intended to "upgrade" to a 30-round mag.

cool. thanks for that info. seeing these pics here, looks like they were often modded for whatever training exercise they were doing.

Posted: 8/12/2011 4:24:27 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Boywonder, I didn't mod it to take a real stock yet, although I might.Haven't decided how I'll tackle that one yet.

Ive got a dented buffer tube that would suit well for the project

Actually, I was going to use the non adjustable stock out of that killer parts lot I bought from you.

Posted: 8/13/2011 3:55:28 AM EDT

[#34]

Here's another one with the cut-off mag.

Posted: 8/13/2011 4:16:22 AM EDT

[#35]

What's the spirit of the bayonet?

(That's what rubber ducks make me think of, that or drown proofing)

Posted: 8/13/2011 4:24:19 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
What's the spirit of the bayonet?

(That's what rubber ducks make me think of, that or drown proofing)

From all military.com
The Army of the United States maintained bayonet practice as part of Basic Combat Training and the NCO instructers asked: "What is the spirit of the Bayonet?" You responded: "To kill the enemy, Sergeant!" They asked: "What are the two types of Bayonet Fighters?" You replied: "The quick and the dead, Sergeant!"

And, yes, we did scream that )or something very close) in bayonet training in basic!

Posted: 8/13/2011 9:59:40 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Where could I find some rubber ducks? 6-12 of them mix of carbine and a1.

Midway has the blue guns in musket length and carbine you could look at..

Posted: 8/13/2011 12:05:49 PM EDT

[#38]

I bought this rubber duck about a year ago for $40, I painted the muzzle orange and gave it to the son of one of my friends to play army with, he loves it.