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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/16/2005 9:30:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 9:31:16 AM EDT by General_Tso]
Hi, folks.

I see over and over again this or that trigger or other lower part should not be used in a combat rifle. To maximize reliability but cater to precision work, what lower parts are folks installing on their AR10 variants and AR15s (Recce and the like)?
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 10:06:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 10:07:54 AM EDT by Yojimbo]
I prefer Colt or CMT/Stag. Obviously some parts will not work with the AR10 so make sure you get the needed AR10 parts.

I recently used a CMT/Stag lower parts kit on my mid-length build and it's top shelf stuff.

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 10:30:01 AM EDT
Same the military uses... KAC 2 stage trigger.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 10:31:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 10:33:18 AM EDT by General_Tso]

Originally Posted By Yojimbo:
I prefer Colt or CMT/Stag. Obviously some parts will not work with the AR10 so make sure you get the needed AR10 parts.

I recently used a CMT/Stag lower parts kit on my mid-length build and it's top shelf stuff.




Single stage, right? Thanks for the input.


Originally Posted By DevL:
Same the military uses... KAC 2 stage trigger.



Interesting. Any disadvantages?
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 10:42:24 AM EDT
None I can think of.

Reliable, crisp, 5 min install with no tools.

Oh yeah, its about $275... thats a drawback but I love mine.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 1:39:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
Same the military uses... KAC 2 stage trigger.



What military is that? Last time I looked, issue M16s and M4s were equiped with single stage old fashioned triggers.

Maybe you know something I don't, so I'd appreciate more info.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 7:14:47 PM EDT
I hear the 2-stage triggers are less reliable. I know I've read it many times on here--even the KAC. Any thoughts?
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:33:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By shamayim:

Originally Posted By DevL:
Same the military uses... KAC 2 stage trigger.



What military is that? Last time I looked, issue M16s and M4s were equiped with single stage old fashioned triggers.

Maybe you know something I don't, so I'd appreciate more info.




KAC 2 stage is part of the SOPMOD M4 kit.

It's used on the SR25 as well.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:40:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 6:40:24 AM EDT by dubb-1]
Let Pat Rogers tell you about KAC two stage triggers some time. Yowza! He has seen many adjustable two stage triggers go TU, and warns all of his students to stay away.

That said, I use a RRA two stage. It is not adjustable, but breaks clean and has great feel. He hasn't seen one of these fail, as I recall, but he hasn't had a large pool to poll from in regard to RRA triggers.

DW
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:43:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 7:46:12 AM EDT by General_Tso]
I have a standard RRA lower parts kit on M4 right now. It is alright, so I'm not sure the benafit from a 2-stage--even the KAC--would be worth any doubts about reliability if I were to do a similar lower parts kit for a more precision-orientated weapon.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:52:53 AM EDT
Reliability being an issue, Accuracy Speaks is absolutely first choice for a precision FCG. It is basically a stock set up but with improved sear geometry.

A little difficult to install but, with no adjustment screws, is every bit as reliable as factory. Nice clean break @ 3.5 - 4.5 lbs. A teensy bit of unavoidable over-travel.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 10:32:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 10:39:45 AM EDT by DevL]
KAC is not less reliable due to set screws. The set screws are adjusted and locktited at the factory. If you mess witht them there is a small possibility of them turing single stage if you dont reloctite them. This will not stop the gun from functioning. A bullet is tool enough to reset the KAC trigger in about 1-2 min once you get the time. Yes thats right you can complete your section of the class if you are in a carbine class, wait till a break, use a bullet as a tool and get the trigger back to normal and it wont come loose for the rest of class. Anyone who says they dont use a KAC 2 stage for reliability purposes is TOTALLY full of horseshit. Then, after the class is over reloctite it at home and be good for the rest of your life provided you dont remove the locktit again. RRA is proabably the worst about reports of going single stage of any 2 stage trigger. If it goes single stage you have to send it off WOA to have to tuned and repaired by machining it. You cant do that in the field with a bullet tip. I have known of Colt factory hammers to snap in half and have never heard of that with KAC. KAC is FAR, FAR, FAR superior to a factory Colt trigger in every way but especially for use in an SPR, DMR, Reece type rig. I will not use a factory Colt trigger in any AR I own. If I had to use another trigger I would use an Accuracy Speaks. I like the trigger but it must be set to too low of a weight to have the same feel on break of a KAC 2 stage. I dont like bending hammer springs to change pull weight either. KAC has 2 weights 3.5# and 4.5# and requires the wap of a spring to change the weight, no bending. I prefer the 3.5# weight. This is a spring seperate from the hammer spring and does not effect reliability. I will never use another triger but KAC. I cant imagine why anyone else would use one either other than the fact they are expensive and that person has not used one. Once you use one and get used to it you are hooked.

Again, you will not have the KAC trigger go TU and not function. It is impossible. It is EASILY feild repairable if it goes single stage. Locktite makes this a non issue. My KAC has never ever failed. I broke the locktite and messed with it enough to get it to go single stage which requires quite a bit of movement, you can actually have lead time by feel of the trigger and know its going to happen. It was fixed in under 60 seconds with abullet tip, I left it unllocktited to see how long it would take to vibrate loose and after many hundreds of rounds it has not moved at all.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 11:55:53 AM EDT
Do any of these wear quicker than a standard FCG?
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 1:03:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
The set screws are adjusted and locktited at the factory.
coldblue informed me that they are adjusted at the factory, but NOT loc-tited at the factory to allow the customer to make final adjustments.

I broke the locktite and messed with it enough to get it to go single stage which requires quite a bit of movement,
From my experience, 1/8 of a turn or less can make it go single stage.


I left it unllocktited to see how long it would take to vibrate loose and after many hundreds of rounds it has not moved at all.
Mine went hair-trigger after only 200 rounds.

Once you use one and get used to it you are hooked.
Agree 100%.



Link Posted: 8/17/2005 1:41:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By altav:

Originally Posted By DevL:
The set screws are adjusted and locktited at the factory.
coldblue informed me that they are adjusted at the factory, but NOT loc-tited at the factory to allow the customer to make final adjustments.

I broke the locktite and messed with it enough to get it to go single stage which requires quite a bit of movement,
From my experience, 1/8 of a turn or less can make it go single stage.


I left it unllocktited to see how long it would take to vibrate loose and after many hundreds of rounds it has not moved at all.
Mine went hair-trigger after only 200 rounds.


Once you use one and get used to it you are hooked.
Agree 100%.







Mine was in fact locktited when it was recieved. Mine is old, perhaps things have changed.

An 1/8 of a turn is quite a bit of movement. You will notice irregularities on your trigger before you get to single stage only, like becoming hair trigger and very light second stage. You can fix it with a bullet tip at that point. The trigger will not stop functioning however. There is also the old rumor the set screws will "fall out" and this is requires several revolutions after the rilfe is already not working, thus its impossible.
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