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Posted: 7/20/2003 5:57:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2003 5:59:38 PM EDT by mswanson]
After taking a urban rifle course and shooting over 2k rounds, I noticed that one of the nuts from my ARMS #38EXT mount fell off. I contacted ARMS by voice mail and email asking them to call me back so I could get a replacement nut sent out to me.

After waiting 2 weeks, I finally got an email back saying they would be happy to take my order. After waiting on hold for about 10 minutes, the woman told me that the price would be $9.00 including shipping. $9.00 for a simple nut?? What about all those letters to the editor in Guns&Ammo saying what great company "ABC" is for sending them a replacement part for free!!

Believing the cost was for an entire replacement bolt and nut, I reluctantly agreed and gave my billing details.

In a few days I got my package, and guess what? All I got was a damn nut. You too can have this special nut for only $9.

Be sure to tighten those nuts, boys. ARMS, you just saw my last dollar.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 6:06:35 PM EDT
Minimum credit card charge fees + shipping gets you $9 nut. You want a functional rail or not?
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 6:09:24 PM EDT
loc-tite that nut.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 6:09:58 PM EDT
you should have gotten some vaseline to go with the loctite. ouch !!
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 6:12:24 PM EDT
Welcome to the wild world of OEM parts departments.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 6:15:04 PM EDT
Hmmm...low marks for customer service there. I guess I'll be loctiting mine! Most gun related companies I've dealt with have really been exemplary in terms of customer service. I had to send a brand new rifle back to savage because I screwed it up...they fixed and sent it back to me for FREE. I didn't even have to pay return shipping. The repairs were not required under warranty, since I basically disassembled the rifle and then couldn't put the trigger assembly back together. I expected some sort of charge, was blown away when they did it free of charge. I think I bought another Savage within 2 weeks of that episode.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 6:16:41 PM EDT
A couple of weeks ago, I decided to utilize my ARMS # 22M68 Aimpoint mount sans the full spacer that I had installed. I realized that over the years, I had misplaced the short screws that come standard with the mount. I called ARMS on a Tuesday & was told that they would send me a replacement set [b]free of charge[/b]. Friday afternoon I received the screws via UPS. [i]ARMS is aces in my book[/i]!!!
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 6:23:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2003 6:28:13 PM EDT by xanadu]
[b]You got screwed [/b](hahahaha I kill myself, SCREWed - getit? screwed.. Haa, umm... (cough) umm.. well perhaps that's not as funny as I thought) Overall, a speciality nut that has a coating on it would cost .50 if they were bought in quantity and made overseas. But made in the USA and small quantities means that they may not be able to absorb the cost and shipping in the name of customer service. Factors that affect the price are most likely: 1) A mindset that a nut with a speciality coating (even black oxide or galvanization is a speciality coating)should be cheap - that mindset comes from years of buying imported hardware at Lowes, HD or the hardware store. We've come to expect lower prices. 2) Union labor - the reason the hardware stores import fasteners from overseas. When the same nut is made here, union or not, It costs $4.00 - especially if the order is for less than 5000 pcs, add markup and overhead, shipping etc, voilia' - you've got a $9.00 nut that ARMS cannot afford to give away for free. 3) You failed to ask them for the price of the product beforehand. Personal contact with the company goes a lot farther than e-mail. All the above is MHO.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 6:46:56 PM EDT
xanadu, Not to beat a dead horse, but I did contact them via phone and explained my situation to them. I did look at the part to see if it was possible that it could be coated with something special, but I really have no idea. Certainly your statements might be true... I do stand by my statement that I expected better of a company, after all it already was a $160 purchase. Thompson Center replaced my entire hammer and sear for free a couple years back. Lumpy196, Yes, and now I do, a locktited one.:)
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 6:52:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mswanson: After waiting on hold for about 10 minutes, the woman told me that the price would be $9.00 including shipping. $9.00 for a simple nut?? What about all those letters to the editor in Guns&Ammo saying what great company "ABC" is for sending them a replacement part for free!!
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You should have asked for the customer service supervisor. No dead horse intended.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 7:03:28 PM EDT
While it may be possible to rationalize the price, I think this is pretty poor customer service on the part of ARMS. If they want people to keep buying their $400 hardware, they should give us a little motivation.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 7:35:18 PM EDT
Look for a fastener company near you and take one of the ARMS screws with you. It's probably a standard or metric size. While I was assembling my lower last month, I destroyed the bolt catch roll pin. It was going to cost me something like $5.00 to get it from a vendor. I went to a fastener specialty shop and got 20 for a buck. Lowe's and Home Depot have metric and stainless hex head screws, plus black coated ones (don't know what the coating is). I was just was looking through the drawer this evening and saw some that look about the right size for the ARMS mounts. Jim
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 8:09:04 PM EDT
If you decide to order from them in the future, I would call their Customer Service line. Great products, and good service IMO.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 8:37:29 PM EDT
I'd called about a few spare nuts, $5.00 bucks a pop plus shipping & handling. If anyone wishes to order some spares, maybe we can get a group deal from Pete-In-NH, Legal Transfers. I for one would like a few new nuts.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 9:15:18 PM EDT
THey won't be seeing one red cent from me. Screw Em!
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 9:28:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2003 9:29:07 PM EDT by NYPatriot]
Let's not forget this little nugget of info... ARMS has direct customers in all branches of the military and all federal agencies, save for one... [b]they have not sold any products nor do they have any communication or sales to the ATF[/b], since Waco, Texas, per Company policy. Great products [i]and[/i] principles! How can you go wrong???
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 10:30:55 PM EDT
no sweat GSA places the order, both are happy.
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 3:12:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NYPatriot: Let's not forget this little nugget of info... ARMS has direct customers in all branches of the military and all federal agencies, save for one... [b]they have not sold any products nor do they have any communication or sales to the ATF[/b], since Waco, Texas, per Company policy. Great products [i]and[/i] principles! How can you go wrong???
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Interesting. Source?
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 3:47:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2003 3:49:20 AM EDT by KY-Bob]
I had the same problem, when my cantilever mount was missing a screw form the factory. Unfortunately for me, they sent it in an un-padded envelope and the letter sorter ate my screw. But the envelope made it to me just fine with a funny little hole in the side. Rather than call them again and explain all this over, i just went out and found one. Not the best experience. Bob
Originally Posted By NYPatriot: A couple of weeks ago, I decided to utilize my ARMS # 22M68 Aimpoint mount sans the full spacer that I had installed. I realized that over the years, I had misplaced the short screws that come standard with the mount. I called ARMS on a Tuesday & was told that they would send me a replacement set [b]free of charge[/b]. Friday afternoon I received the screws via UPS. [i]ARMS is aces in my book[/i]!!!
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Link Posted: 7/21/2003 4:05:02 AM EDT
so why didn't you go down to ACE Hardware and buy a nut for 25 cents?
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 5:59:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2003 6:01:38 AM EDT by bogz]
Originally Posted By 308wood: so why didn't you go down to ACE Hardware and buy a nut for 25 cents?
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If I bought a $160 rail (and who knows what else from them, most likely a mount as well) from them, I would expect them to be able to front a little nut for me, for no other reason than customer service. Who knows, maybe this is a big problem for them (nuts falling off), in which case, perhaps they should look at their design. BTW, how can a nut cost TWO DOLLARS to ship? The invoice says 'freight', not shipping / handling. That damn thing could fit in an envelope with a 37 cent stamp on it! Poo Poo on ARMS. Also, so they don't deal with the BATF... At least they are doing a dead-nuts on job of customer service [:\]
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 6:32:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 308wood: so why didn't you go down to ACE Hardware and buy a nut for 25 cents?
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Yeah, really, I am sure you could have found one, or 1000
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 2:23:29 PM EDT
A friend of mine over torqued the little Allen screws on his #22M68 mount. He called A.R.M.S., they said: "Send it back we'll make it right." Sometimes customer service varies widely, depending on who answers the phone.
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 2:38:31 PM EDT
When I got my SIR 45 M in new I unknowingly dropped one of the slotted nuts. Called them and had one free in several days. Did cleanup around the bench and found nut before replacement arrived. MM419
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 2:50:16 PM EDT
Bad, Bad Business Practice!!!! To give you an idea, I have a 629 with a Burris scope Mount (10 years old). The rear windage screw shattered, so I called them. The sent me out two new free screws the same day. I got the screw, but they were blue, not chrome. Called them back up, and they sent me two chrome screws out, which I received the day after I called them back. The total cost to them to send me screws, $4.00 (including postage). The cost of savings that they would have to spend in marketing money to regain the trust of a market they all ready have, in the hundreds of thousands. Bottom line is that Arms just lost thousands of dollars of sales due to mswansons piss poor treatment (post), all over a $.50 nut and $.30 in postage. My guess it some one forgot that customer service and sales starts at Hello, and it takes thousands of dollars of marketing to just to get that single phone call.
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 3:03:09 PM EDT
So you're going to cut yourself off from one of the best sources for high-end AR upgrades over a screw. Makes sense to me.
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 3:05:59 PM EDT
Customer service sells... My nut on my DPMS telestock came off at the range. I did NOT buy it from them, but got it NIB (with receipt) from another arfcommer. I called them on price check, they asked for my address. They sent me two. $No Charge. [b]DPMS[/b] IS on my buy list from a replacement higher-than-a-nut-nut great service... ARMS may not sell to ATF, but if this is how they treat US....[:<]
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 3:34:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lumpy196: So you're going to cut yourself off from one of the best sources for high-end AR upgrades over a screw. Makes sense to me.
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I disagree. Customer service like this clearly makes them NOT one of the best sources. If the equipment is good, that helps. But sooner or later, customer service is going to come into play. It makes all the difference. It shows they are willing to stand behind their product. $8 for a nut tells me they will stand behind their product, then rape me.
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 7:59:54 PM EDT
fizassist...
Interesting. Source?
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[url]www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=153633&w=searchPop[/url] Scroll about two thirds of the way down.
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 8:19:32 PM EDT
A. it was the nut that you lost, not the bolt. Did you ever considering going to an autoparts store and getting a replacement for about 10 cents? B. had to laugh at the bottle of loc-tite that came in the package C. In the world of motocross racing one soon learns that after every practice session and moto the first thing to be done after changing the air filter and topping off the tank is TO CHECK EVERY FRIGGIN BOLT YOU CAN GET A WRENCH ON because if you don't you will pay the price. Many races are lost in the pits because of negligent maintenance. D. I understand your getting aggitated about the poor service but in life as in war, the motto is ADJUST, ADAPT, AND OVERCOME!. 'nuf said!!!
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 9:12:47 PM EDT
I've been watching this thread since it started. It was funny to see, because coincidentally, the same exact thing just happened to a guys gun I put together. I put it together, but he is the one who lost the nut on his #50. In the end I figured it was my fault for not using the locktite that CAME WITH THE SYSTEM. So I gave him one off my rifle and called ARMS to get a replacement. I was also charged the $9. Yes I thought it was a bit excessive. Yes, I would have really appreciated it if they said ok, here's your new nut, no sweat. But jesus christ people, look, they didnt loose these nuts, we did. All this talk about ARMS losing your business over this seems more over the top and gung ho than ARMS charging $7 fpr a nut and $2 for postage. And by the way, I dont know a lot about hardware, but I do know I have never seen a nut like the one on the SIRS in any home dpeot I have ever been in?
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 10:09:28 PM EDT
Lets see, when I buy my EO Tech, I can buy a $125.00 ARMS mount or I can buy a flat-top upper for $125.00 and not have to fuck with all the little crews and what not. I will have to remove and install my bbl. After reading this thread, maybe that is the way to mount the EO tech on my CAR-15 & skip the ARMS mount.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 4:12:55 AM EDT
SC, the ARMS mount for the EoTech has no bolts like the ones we're talking about. And if you are talking about a SIR system as a mount, you dont have to remove your barrel to install. And the SIR is a lot more than just a mount for an optic... [rolleyes] Hey guys, look, I wasnt real happy about paying $9 for a bolt either, but look at the feeding frenzy this has started. Its bringing out folks who havent the first clue what they're talking about.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 1:44:24 PM EDT
ARMS sucks because they wont give something away? What a crock. Why dont y'all dorkoff on a FIRE MISSION. They put out top products and because someone didnt tighten their nut its ARMS fault, talk about passing the buck. I bet you tighten the nut this time. GG
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 1:48:12 PM EDT
I am not saying that ARMS stuff isn't the next best thing since sliced bread, its just holding some guy up for a $9.00 nut that annoys me. If it really cost $9.00 to manufacture and mail, then fine. The dude lost the part and if ARMS gives him a new one, GREAT, if they charge him a REASONABLE price, GREAT Also. But I have a hard time believing that they didn't screw the guy over the screw. If I don't have to buy somehting of theirs, why should I?
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 2:23:25 PM EDT
i think it was quite stupid of ARMS and think they SHOULD loose alot of business due to this lousy business practice.... the reason leupold and other companies have super strong followings, is due to customer service... i for 1 have been buying several ar15's and many after-market parts,,, i will also remember this and not buy ARMS equipment... rag on it or not.... that's how i am.......
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 3:36:24 PM EDT
A screw coming loose is NOT a product defect (which they should fix or replace). Its a lack of preventive maintenance. All screws can come loose unless lock-tited. Check your equipment and quit expecting companies to eat it because you dont.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 4:29:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2003 4:33:20 PM EDT by hutch1510]
((that's spoken like a true company man)).... and a ((company i do not do business with)).....bought a bushmaster shorty.. an olympic prc-16... armalite scope mount ...scopes. ATI featherweigght bi-pod... all within 2 months... i will be buying more soon... but not from ARMS.... word of mouth often makes or breaks a company in the long run... charge a premium for your product... then pull something like this??? unacceptable... they should be educating their people taking orders and or customer service better....
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 4:52:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lumpy196: A screw coming loose is NOT a product defect (which they should fix or replace). Its a lack of preventive maintenance. All screws can come loose unless lock-tited. Check your equipment and quit expecting companies to eat it because you dont.
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Correct, but people have a "not my fault" attitude. GG
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 5:28:08 PM EDT
I have seen other companies taken to task for some minor percieved infraction of what some member didn't like. It didn't matter how many others gave great reviews over the years, there always seems to be someone that some company couldn't please no matter what. Then you have those who claim they are outraged, and they were not even involved, amusing to me. Quite frankly I think that there should be some kind of loctight for those few with a screw loose in thier head. Good shootin, Jack
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 5:28:31 PM EDT
UNFRIKKIN' BELIEVABLE!!! Several on here are talking of boycotting based on information that they haven't taken one ounce of effort to confirm. Talk about hasty and gullible. Not that I'm stating that the original poster is a liar but fact is people are just taking it for granted that ARMS MUST BE EVIL because he said they were and don't really know the whole story. I bet you boycotters beleive everything you read in the newspaper and worship CNN as the only conveyers of the truth.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 5:36:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2003 5:37:47 PM EDT by hutch1510]
yup----.. well information is information... i don't think anyone is pulling any strings here... laughable you wopuld think so.... the real issue is whether or not you like a company that charges $9 for a "nut" OR>>> if you like companys that go THE EXTRA mile to keep you happy and a satisfied customer "which is smart"... how many loyal leupold customers would accept this treatment???? maybe why they have a strong following?????...?????? seems simple enough to me... i don't think theres anything shaky or untruthful here... 2 people had the same thing happen and paid $9 for the nut.... it's all what you look for in a company....NOTHING MORE... get over the conspiracy theory///PLEASE... that's a joke....
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 5:51:05 PM EDT
Hutch I'm shure you never worked in an office, as it takes a company the same amount of time and expense to proccess an order for 9.00 dollars as it does for 1,000. Since they are not the one that didn't loose the item in the first place, I think that they are not the ones that should be falted and in fact they have to carry an item in inventory of a non money maker so it's there if someone else screws up. I'm sure ARMS will not miss the business that you never sent them anyway. I have seen a lot higher prices put on replacement, shipping and handling and postage for a lot less needed item, just watch TV adds. GEEEEEE!
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 6:14:40 PM EDT
Hell, at least ARMS will sell you a new nut. KAC probably would tell you to buy a new rail system to replace it. All joking aside, what's the big deal about paying for something you lost? It isn't ARMS fault that you lost the nut, why should they replace it for free? -Cap'n
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 6:15:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hutch1510: yup----.. well information is information... i don't think anyone is pulling any strings here... laughable you wopuld think so.... the real issue is whether or not you like a company that charges $9 for a "nut" OR>>> if you like companys that go THE EXTRA mile to keep you happy and a satisfied customer "which is smart"... how many loyal leupold customers would accept this treatment???? maybe why they have a strong following?????...?????? seems simple enough to me... i don't think theres anything shaky or untruthful here... 2 people had the same thing happen and paid $9 for the nut.... it's all what you look for in a company....NOTHING MORE... get over the conspiracy theory///PLEASE... that's a joke....
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Umm Hutch, welcome to the AR board. since you're new here, let me point out to you that it's not $9 for the nut, It's $7 for the nut and $2 shipping. There are examples on this post of ARMS taking care of the customer at no charge. There are also examples of ARMS charging customers for repair parts. If you talk to ARMS with the same attitute that you're using on this board, and I wouldn't be suprised to find that they charge you double. Attitude and politeness makes all the difference whaen you are asking a company to give you something for free.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 6:28:31 PM EDT
Noticed something in the initial post - you [b]ordered[/b] a new nut? "Ordering" and "asking for a replacement" is slightly different. Did you ask them if you could get it as a free replacement? As I understand it, you [b]ordered[/b] a new nut over the phone, they told you it was going to be $9.00 and you said yes. So what are you complaining about? They told you up front what the cost would be, and it's not until you get the item that you complain to us about it. I guess to each his own.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 7:19:34 PM EDT
When I called, I did ask for a replacement. I was told by a guy at ARMS that they are specially machined screws that cost $7. I admit the first thing I though was "damn". But look, it's $7. When I got it in the mail, I saw they charged $2 for shipping. Again, I thought "damn". But I cant say I am unused to it. I order stuff all the time and many many companies, if not most, wildly oversharge for shipping and "handling". I dont think most people have a problem with fact that they charged us, but I do think people dont understand why they charged so much. In the end, I am out $9 for my mistake. And it is my mistake. Im not complaining. Do I think I was overcharged? Well, thats relative. If the list price was $3 and they charged me $7, then yeah, I'd feel overchaged. But they told me it was $7 and thats what they charged me. Does it cost anything near that muchto make? I wouldnt have the slightest idea. But I can tell you Im fairly certain that they do have to have these pieces specially made for them. And Im sure that cost a lot more to do than ordering some standard size screws from any of a trillion suppliers. Boycott ARMS over this??? Hmmm... with all this talk of screws and nuts, thats the screwiest, nuttiest thing I have heard. Go ahead and screw yourself out of getting some of the best gear any money can buy. I've got too much faith in their gear and their company, that they have earned with superior products and a good relationship to make a fuss over $9.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 8:03:26 PM EDT
All you whiners that want to boycot ARMS [b]PLEASE DO SO!![/b] This is VERY important - Don't buy from them. Now maybe ARMS will have time to develop that low profile/throw lever mount for my EOTech 552 that I need..... [;)]
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 8:05:48 PM EDT
I just saw what we were supposed to look at in the red lien initial post. It shows an invoice with the nut, but it also shows a tube of lock tight included. If you go to the hardware store to buy a small tube of loctight, they ain't cheap. Since you didn't ask for the loctight, they must have given it to you for no charge to help you out, what bastards! It looks like they even had the nerve to specialy package the nut and loctight in seperate compartments for you to see and not loose, inconsiderate bastards again. Then they put it in a padded envalope or box, I can't stand this anymore. POOR BABIES! Go out and buy a passifier! Jack
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 8:20:25 PM EDT
[b]The THRID time[/b] Ive agreed with 3rdtk this month. The end is near.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 8:20:50 PM EDT
This is a a great example of a lack of personal responsibility. Someone installs his #38 incorrectly causing him to lose one of his nuts, and then expects ARMS to provide him with a new one. It is not the manufacturers fault if you misuse their product, nor should anyone expect the manufacturer to fix it when your neglegence causes a failure. If ARMS feels they can't afford to go around handing out $7 nuts to everyone who loses them, then suck it up and pay them. Also, I would not be surprised if those nuts were worth $7. Or say they were $5 and the Loctite was $2. I've purchased custom thumbscrews for a project: $10 each AFTER my company's discount. That project had $320 in screws alone. Custom machining in small quantities is very expensive, but you must pay for quality. Incidently, those $7 nuts are part of the reason why the #38 costs $160. Finally, the ARMS #38 comes with that little bottle of Loctite for a reason. It's to keep you from losing those $7 nuts. IMHO, they have gone above the normal call of customer service by supplying the Loctite in the first place.
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