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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 12/26/2006 11:55:58 AM EST
Link to Wolf 223

Now to decide between Wolf and Guat.
Link Posted: 12/26/2006 12:05:49 PM EST
$165 per 1000 is still one of the best prices I've seen even for Wolf. I personally love this stuff. I'll have to order a case.

Thx for the "Heads Up"
Link Posted: 12/26/2006 11:21:21 PM EST
$139 per 1k for 62 gr. at Midway if you have a C&R discount. Which, btw, pays for itself very quickly (usually the first ammo order).
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 12:29:39 AM EST
I've heard so many different stories about how wolf is "teh badz0rs" for your rifles. Everything from breaking extractors, coating goo inside your chamber, and just recently, being hard steel and wearing down the chambers.
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 1:04:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
I've heard so many different stories about how wolf is "teh badz0rs" for your rifles. Everything from breaking extractors, coating goo inside your chamber, and just recently, being hard steel and wearing down the chambers.


And, every last story was utter bullshit.

The steel in those cases is very much softer than the chamber and barrel, and will NOT harm the rifle. Heck, the steel isn't touching the barrel, the polymer coating is. Nor, does it leave any crap in the chamber from the case itself. The polymer coating won't come off with a blowtorch, let alone a single firing. The only thing the steel MAY cause is more blowback (and thus dirtier chamber faster), but even then I don't see it with my guns. Steel doesn't expand as rapidly as brass, and some gas and crap may blow back into your chamber (so the story goes).

I've shot 15-20k rounds through 7 AR's without a single parts breakage, no extractor wear, and no screwed up chambers. Even if it DID screw up one of my parts, I've saved well over $1500 in buying and shooting Wolf, enough $$ to buy a complete new gun or about 150 new extractors.

Wolf runs in all my guns, like a champ. Some people don't like it, that's fine. Some have rifles that won't shoot it, fair enough. But, it's not going to hurt your gun any more than any other ammo.
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 2:05:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
I've heard so many different stories about how wolf is "teh badz0rs" for your rifles. Everything from breaking extractors, coating goo inside your chamber, and just recently, being hard steel and wearing down the chambers.


Got any personal experience to contribute? Or are you just gegurgitating the same old crap?

My life and my country don't depend on my rifle. My rifle is for fun. And killing helpless little furry critters in the woods.

All I buy is wolf. I've NEVER had an issue in several thousand rounds. I've had worse luck with brand name crap.

I clean my rifles and take care of them. For what I save buying Wolf, I've paid for a second AR over the past several years.

Link Posted: 12/27/2006 2:31:08 AM EST
Ive seen it at Outdoor marksman in the ammo price thread for $154..
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 4:31:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
I've heard so many different stories about how wolf is "teh badz0rs" for your rifles. Everything from breaking extractors, coating goo inside your chamber, and just recently, being hard steel and wearing down the chambers.



You keep hearing it because people keep saying "I keep hearing..."

It's just like the one guy who has some damage to his rifle from ADCOM .223, and all of a sudden nobody will buy it because "EVERYBODY has problems with that stuff."

Maybe it's just good luck, but I have yet to find, own, or shoot a gun that doesn't love Wolf ammo...heck, I've never even had a single dud round...I sure can't say the same thing about military surplus ammo.
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 9:04:00 AM EST
People repeat what they hear and then the story gets blown out of proportion after its been told over and over.

I have had one bad experience with Wolf in an AR15 and I won't go into the boring details but it dealt with my rifle, 2,000 rounds down the pipe in two days, and me not getting the bolt really wet with lube.

Wolf is great plinking ammo but I won't train with it nor use it for self defense. That said I think I will be buying some.
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 10:06:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By HorseHung:

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
I've heard so many different stories about how wolf is "teh badz0rs" for your rifles. Everything from breaking extractors, coating goo inside your chamber, and just recently, being hard steel and wearing down the chambers.


Got any personal experience to contribute? Or are you just gegurgitating the same old crap?

My life and my country don't depend on my rifle. My rifle is for fun. And killing helpless little furry critters in the woods.

All I buy is wolf. I've NEVER had an issue in several thousand rounds. I've had worse luck with brand name crap.

I clean my rifles and take care of them. For what I save buying Wolf, I've paid for a second AR over the past several years.


my personal experience consists of putting 2k of wolf through my AR and about 4k through my SKS and AK. I've reloaded for my AR and not found any of the "over stretched brass because my chamber is worn down" that various gun store counter guys have warned me of.
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 11:20:09 AM EST
I've never had a problem with it, outside of being dirtier as mentioned above. If your gun will shoot it, its a great deal for plinking ammo.
TO
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 6:31:54 PM EST
My parts kit AR has digested every round ever put through it, including many rounds of wolf. The only time I ever seen anyone have issues with Wolf was a guy out the first time with a Mini 14.

Look around here, all these ar owners shoot thousand of rounds of wolf without any problems.
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 9:14:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/27/2006 9:15:45 PM EST by Str8laced]
As stated above, if it runs in your rifle, use it. I have an AR that ONLY runs on Wolf. It is strange, but the chamber is apparently a little tight, and or rough in this particular rifle and brass cases will fail to extract and rip off a piece of the rim. The Wolf case however is harder, and it extracts fine, every time. Go figure. :) I use it exclusively in this rifle, as it is the only ammo to go bang 100% of the time.

YMMV
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 9:19:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
I've heard so many different stories about how wolf is "teh badz0rs" for your rifles. Everything from breaking extractors, coating goo inside your chamber, and just recently, being hard steel and wearing down the chambers.


And, every last story was utter bullshit.

The steel in those cases is very much softer than the chamber and barrel, and will NOT harm the rifle. Heck, the steel isn't touching the barrel, the polymer coating is. Nor, does it leave any crap in the chamber from the case itself. The polymer coating won't come off with a blowtorch, let alone a single firing. The only thing the steel MAY cause is more blowback (and thus dirtier chamber faster), but even then I don't see it with my guns. Steel doesn't expand as rapidly as brass, and some gas and crap may blow back into your chamber (so the story goes).

I've shot 15-20k rounds through 7 AR's without a single parts breakage, no extractor wear, and no screwed up chambers. Even if it DID screw up one of my parts, I've saved well over $1500 in buying and shooting Wolf, enough $$ to buy a complete new gun or about 150 new extractors.

Wolf runs in all my guns, like a champ. Some people don't like it, that's fine. Some have rifles that won't shoot it, fair enough. But, it's not going to hurt your gun any more than any other ammo.


And what say you of the old laquer wolf?

NEW wolf is fine. Old wolf is for the dogs.
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 9:28:52 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 9:54:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/27/2006 9:58:22 PM EST by MouseBoy]
copper plated steel jacketed bullet, not copper jacket

I'm sure the Coyote brand will work fine in near all guns,

NOBODY can quantify whether the steel jacket creates more

(or less) wear

for me..........thanks, but no thanks. This is just my opinion...

(I would shoot it in a beater if I had such a gun)

Link Posted: 12/27/2006 10:18:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By MouseBoy:
copper plated steel jacketed bullet, not copper jacket

I'm sure the Coyote brand will work fine in near all guns,

NOBODY can quantify whether the steel jacket creates more

(or less) wear

for me..........thanks, but no thanks. This is just my opinion...

(I would shoot it in a beater if I had such a gun)


I think the wear issue is BS, I learned in my machining classes that softer metal does little to hurt a much harder metal. my guess is that the steel cases are probably a softer than even the brass, but it has greater tensile strength and thus doesn't expand as quickly and you get back-blast into the chamber which can cause a carbon build up.
Link Posted: 12/27/2006 10:58:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
I've heard so many different stories about how wolf is "teh badz0rs" for your rifles. Everything from breaking extractors, coating goo inside your chamber, and just recently, being hard steel and wearing down the chambers.


And all of it is bullshit...

Wolf is not bad for your rifle, it is soft steel and can't break an extractor or any of the other crap...

Some people have had trouble with it extracting reliably from SPECIFIC GUNS (imho a gun defect, not an ammo defect - it was largely confined to the more expensive brands), but over all there was no issue....
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 11:36:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
I've heard so many different stories about how wolf is "teh badz0rs" for your rifles. Everything from breaking extractors, coating goo inside your chamber, and just recently, being hard steel and wearing down the chambers.


And, every last story was utter bullshit.

The steel in those cases is very much softer than the chamber and barrel, and will NOT harm the rifle. Heck, the steel isn't touching the barrel, the polymer coating is. Nor, does it leave any crap in the chamber from the case itself. The polymer coating won't come off with a blowtorch, let alone a single firing. The only thing the steel MAY cause is more blowback (and thus dirtier chamber faster), but even then I don't see it with my guns. Steel doesn't expand as rapidly as brass, and some gas and crap may blow back into your chamber (so the story goes).

I've shot 15-20k rounds through 7 AR's without a single parts breakage, no extractor wear, and no screwed up chambers. Even if it DID screw up one of my parts, I've saved well over $1500 in buying and shooting Wolf, enough $$ to buy a complete new gun or about 150 new extractors.

Wolf runs in all my guns, like a champ. Some people don't like it, that's fine. Some have rifles that won't shoot it, fair enough. But, it's not going to hurt your gun any more than any other ammo.



I pay extra for the brass only once, then my 77 nosler reloads are less the wolf.
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 11:57:31 AM EST

I pay extra for the brass only once, then my 77 nosler reloads are less the wolf. [:D

Remember the cardinal rule...One NEVER saves any money by reloading :)
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 12:40:34 PM EST
And I just reloaded 20 steel cases of Wolf for the fun of it.
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 1:04:54 PM EST
i just ordered 2,000rds from them 16.8cents a round INCLUDING tax/shipping
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 3:26:55 PM EST
5,000 rounds and not a problem. I'll have no problem with keeping a couple thousand around the shack.
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 3:28:20 PM EST
Ya know the complaints with wolf are NOT Total Bullshit. I have had plenty of problems with wolf. No broken parts, but I have had Shortstroking, Extraction problems (generally fixed with a Wolf Extra Power Spring), also I find that when I shoot wolf I need to keep my old Preban Carbine really well lubed or she just tends to gunk up.

These are not catastrophes but it's not like they have run flawlessly. Reading this thread as a newbie I would be thinking Wolf is something it's not. It's cheap low powered practice ammo.
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 5:27:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 6:00:22 PM EST
If you guys are having problems with Wolf short stroking, you have a marginal rifle.

I have run Wolf Poly through all of my Colts, Bushmasters, and DPMS rifles and have never had that problem.

The only time I had Wolf problems was at a carbine class with a new Bushy that had about 500 rounds through it w/o cleaning it. A quick heavy rain came through and drenched every thing. That sludgy crap it leaves behind turned to muck and short stroked a few times. After a couple rounds it all heated back up, dried out, and was good to go again for the rest of the day.

Link Posted: 12/28/2006 6:16:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 6:44:49 PM EST
I am sticking to buying from private sources as i have been doing the past year or so for 556 223 or 762x39. Got some great d eals. Today , I grabbed 840 rounds of Wolf 55 grain for 13.5 cents a round. Luckily I am stocked with over 6500 rds of different 223 556 for my Olympic 2005 Shorty which loves Wolf as well a s the brass cased 223 556 ammo. No problems with Wolf in a 16 inch olympic shorty.
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 6:51:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/28/2006 6:56:02 PM EST by AZ-K9]

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
I've heard so many different stories about how wolf is "teh badz0rs" for your rifles. Everything from breaking extractors, coating goo inside your chamber, and just recently, being hard steel and wearing down the chambers.


And all of it is bullshit...

Wolf is not bad for your rifle, it is soft steel and can't break an extractor or any of the other crap...

Some people have had trouble with it extracting reliably from SPECIFIC GUNS (imho a gun defect, not an ammo defect - it was largely confined to the more expensive brands), but over all there was no issue....

REALLY? I have a nice dent on the endcap of my suppressor thanks to the wonderful quality of Wolf ammo...

Other than that, it's great stuff.

Link Posted: 12/28/2006 7:48:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
REALLY? I have a nice dent on the endcap of my suppressor thanks to the wonderful quality of Wolf ammo...

Other than that, it's great stuff.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/jsinz/Endcapstrike.jpg


Correlation does not equal causation. Certainly the dreaded steel case and evil polymer coating couldn't have caused this problem. Maybe Wolf uses REALLY inferior bullets compared to other manufacturers and this somehow took a chunk out of your aftermarket, user installed, ultra-delicate suppressor.

I think the real beef with Wolf is: Ammo snobs wouldn't be caught dead shooting Wolf, so it must be inferior.
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 8:04:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By back40:
If you guys are having problems with Wolf short stroking, you have a marginal rifle.


Yes, because we are shooting rifles designed around 5.56 pressures.... and when we shoot ammo never designed for the rifle, and it doesnt always work 100%, it means the rifles are "marginal".

Gotchya.


Just because the AR15 was designed to use HOTTER 5.56 ammo, doesn't mean it shouldn't work with lower pressure .223 ammo.

The fact that it does work with the vast majority of them sort of makes your statement look
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 8:22:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 8:24:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By back40:
Just because the AR15 was designed to use HOTTER 5.56 ammo, doesn't mean it shouldn't work with lower pressure .223 ammo.




You're still confused I see.

Link Posted: 12/28/2006 8:58:10 PM EST
yeah, really good price. it still hurts because i use to buy the stuff for 99.00 per 1000 from sportsmansguide a couple of years ago. oh well, the rising cost of living!

it was just 2 years ago though. damn.
Link Posted: 12/28/2006 9:21:22 PM EST
My DPMS 16" w/ Tac-16 suppressor eats the stuff up...

I've never had any problems. Like stated before, it is dirty, and there is a little more blowback...

I enjoy cleaning my rifles, and keepng them in good shape, so I will continue to shoot it for plinking...

my $.02

~Troy
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 4:35:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By R0ME0:
yeah, really good price. it still hurts because i use to buy the stuff for 99.00 per 1000 from sportsmansguide a couple of years ago. oh well, the rising cost of living!

it was just 2 years ago though. damn.


Sportmans Guide was still charging $99/100 in September of 2005. It went up to about $115/1000 sometime around November 2005. It jumped to $150 sometime around Apr-May 2006. Of course a bunch of us got in on the "price mistake" in June for $99/1000.

The actual price has gone up more than just the $50/1000 as at the same time SG also canceled their $20 coupons and the Fat Wallet relationship which was another 6% rebate.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 6:19:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By fortyfive4life:
Ya know the complaints with wolf are NOT Total Bullshit. I have had plenty of problems with wolf. No broken parts, but I have had Shortstroking, Extraction problems (generally fixed with a Wolf Extra Power Spring), also I find that when I shoot wolf I need to keep my old Preban Carbine really well lubed or she just tends to gunk up.

These are not catastrophes but it's not like they have run flawlessly. Reading this thread as a newbie I would be thinking Wolf is something it's not. It's cheap low powered practice ammo.


I'd say you summed it up very well. However, the problem stories with Wolf are that it will wear your chamber, break your extractor, and ruin your barrel. All of which are BS. I also have the same complaints as you.... shortstrokes in some rifles, occasional extractions issues, and it's dirty as hell. But none of that keeps me from buying it... I know what it is, how it runs, and I use it for plinking and practice because its cheap.
You forgot "give you clap and shoot your dog." I've seen claims that "steel cased ammo will wear out your action, break your extractor, and cause irreversible corrosion too." All complete malarkey.

Wolf steel cased ammo has some issues; it's not the cleanest stuff in the world and the coating(s) on the cases can cause some really nasty chamber cleaning issues (both of which could lead to short stroking and extraction problems). On the other hand, it seems to be very consistent from round to round and lot to lot; if you have good results with today's lot, you'll probably have good results from last year's and next year's as well. (And the same amount of extra cleaning to do as well...)

I would never think of Wolf as a "serious" load for "serious" defense use. It's ok for practice and plinking, but I'd stick with more expensive commercial and surplus ammo for such uses, if for no other reason but for the higher reputation of those loads.
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 6:56:35 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 7:51:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
I do know one other person who had a baffle strike in a .223 can using Wolf 55gr ammo - so that should probably be considered as well... if you shoot a lot supressed.


What would cause that?
Link Posted: 12/29/2006 8:01:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/29/2006 8:03:26 PM EST by AZ-K9]

Originally Posted By Deadmeat99:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
REALLY? I have a nice dent on the endcap of my suppressor thanks to the wonderful quality of Wolf ammo...

Other than that, it's great stuff.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/jsinz/Endcapstrike.jpg


Correlation does not equal causation. Certainly the dreaded steel case and evil polymer coating couldn't have caused this problem. Maybe Wolf uses REALLY inferior bullets compared to other manufacturers and this somehow took a chunk out of your aftermarket, user installed, ultra-delicate suppressor.

I think the real beef with Wolf is: Ammo snobs wouldn't be caught dead shooting Wolf, so it must be inferior.

So i should continue shooting the quality Wolf?

I know of two others that had baffle strikes with the stuff too.

I love the affordable ammo, but it has no place in setups with close tolerances.
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 9:58:48 AM EST
$10 OFF your next Sportsman's Guide order of $99 or more with Code SPG2024. Use before Jan 31, 2007.

Ladies and Gentlemen, the Pilot has turned on the "No shouting death to America, allah akbar, No threatening to behead fellow passengers, no religious yodeling" light.
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 10:34:44 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/30/2006 10:40:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 7:35:25 AM EST
This would be a great time for somebody with photo hosting to post the "not this shit again" guy....

I shoot wolf. I love wolf. wolf loves me. I also have XM193 and SA stuff, as well as some lovingly reloaded 5.56 in LC brass - but when you want a cheap no hassle day at the range shooting a decent (no misconceptions about winning matches with this stuff) ammo without having to worry about collecting my brass, I shoot wolf. At $150 per 1K, it's not as great as it was at $94 per 1K, but still fits a niche.
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 2:28:49 PM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By v8unleashed:

It's just like the one guy who has some damage to his rifle from ADCOM .223, and all of a sudden nobody will buy it because "EVERYBODY has problems with that stuff."



Yeh, I've seen those pictures of the damage the ADCOM made. All I thought when I saw the pictures was that some fool shot 5.56 ammo in a 223 match barrel.
Tight specs + small headspace + overpressure = bad juju in the receiver.
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 2:30:33 PM EST
I just ordered 960 rds of Wolf 55gr for $135 from SG.
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 3:00:25 PM EST
I purchased 500 rounds for 85$ today also. Its a little dirtier and smells a little worse and I would not use for match shooting, I would still hate to get hit with it. I try and keep track of which AR's are zeroed on Wolf as its zero is definately 2inches different at 100 yards but that true when I change ammo mfr's any way.

My 2 cents

Chinook3
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