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Posted: 6/17/2014 11:27:14 AM EST
I am looking to put a 1-6x on my 16" in place of an acog 4x.  I firmly believe in buy once cry once, so I want the brightest, lightest fastest optic I can get.  Price is not an object.  As I said, I want the best.

What are your recommendations?  Thanks!

Edit:  I don't like ballistic specific reticles.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 11:35:16 AM EST
[#1]
VCOG
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 11:36:26 AM EST
[#2]
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Quoted:
VCOG
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I was just going to edit...

One thing I do not want is a ballistic specific reticle.  That rules out the VCOG for now until they come out with additional models.

I am leaning toward a mark 6 with the TMR-D reticle right now.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 11:36:57 AM EST
[#3]
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 11:43:03 AM EST
[#4]
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Given the last two scopes on your list I suppose I should add the leupold mark 8 1-8x to my short list also.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 11:48:26 AM EST
[#5]
VCOG
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 11:51:37 AM EST
[#6]
I would add to that list the Kahles Helia K16i, an illuminated 1-6x24.

I don't have one, but if the glass is as good as the glass in the Kahles hunting scope I have, it is going to be absolutely stunningly, breath takingly, brilliant.  Several FFP reticle choices.

Kahles Helia K16i Competition Scopes
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 12:13:03 PM EST
[#7]

Meopta 1-6x24 R2

- Not too expensive.
- German glass
- Made in Europe
- American own company
- daylight visible illumination w/ microprocessor controlled power system
- 17 oz
- 30mm tube
- lifetime warranty
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 1:15:55 PM EST
[#8]
The VCOG is pretty heavy.  23oz without the mount or a battery... Youch.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 1:49:10 PM EST
[#9]
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Quoted:
The VCOG is pretty heavy.  23oz without the mount or a battery... Youch.
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The VCOG mount weighs half what several of the popular scope mounts out there way though.

Another vote for the VCOG though. Ballistic reticle aside, I also own a Mark 6 1-6x, and the VCOG makes it its bitch.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 2:32:31 PM EST
[#10]
The K16i is the daddy until something else comes along that can match it feature for feature.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 4:38:58 PM EST
[#11]
It's going to be hard to beat the K16i.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 5:06:19 PM EST
[#12]
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Quoted:
It's going to be hard to beat the K16i.
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Is there any info around on using the 2nd focal plane reticle in them for ranging unknown target distances?

Edit:  A second focal plane reticle in a $2700 scope is a little disappointing don't you think?
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 5:27:20 PM EST
[#13]
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Quoted:

The VCOG mount weighs half what several of the popular scope mounts out there way though.

Another vote for the VCOG though. Ballistic reticle aside, I also own a Mark 6 1-6x, and the VCOG makes it its bitch.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The VCOG is pretty heavy.  23oz without the mount or a battery... Youch.

The VCOG mount weighs half what several of the popular scope mounts out there way though.

Another vote for the VCOG though. Ballistic reticle aside, I also own a Mark 6 1-6x, and the VCOG makes it its bitch.


In the red.  How so?  Looking for details if you can.  Thanks!
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 5:27:47 PM EST
[#14]
Thanks for the ideas everyone.  Couple options in here I had never thought of.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 7:01:29 PM EST
[#15]
I have my eye on the Swarovski Z6/Z6I for a build later this yr.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:39:23 PM EST
[#16]
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Quoted:
It's going to be hard to beat the K16i.
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I am a huge USO fan and I have used the SB scope listed, but I did have the opportunity to handle this scope and I was taken back at the clarity and the ease of operating the zoom lever.  

Of I were to go with another brand, Kahles would be the one.

77
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 11:37:28 PM EST
[#17]

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Quoted:
Is there any info around on using the 2nd focal plane reticle in them for ranging unknown target distances?



Edit:  A second focal plane reticle in a $2700 scope is a little disappointing don't you think?
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Quoted:



Quoted:

It's going to be hard to beat the K16i.




Is there any info around on using the 2nd focal plane reticle in them for ranging unknown target distances?



Edit:  A second focal plane reticle in a $2700 scope is a little disappointing don't you think?
Well imo it depends. Are you going to be ranging targets at 1x/4x or on the highest setting?

 



The other benefit of FFP is on 1x the reticle looks more like a red dot since its smaller. Anyways these are just questions I am asking myself and kinda just thinking out loud since I am no expert in this subject.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 11:39:19 PM EST
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Is there any info around on using the 2nd focal plane reticle in them for ranging unknown target distances?

Edit:  A second focal plane reticle in a $2700 scope is a little disappointing don't you think?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's going to be hard to beat the K16i.


Is there any info around on using the 2nd focal plane reticle in them for ranging unknown target distances?

Edit:  A second focal plane reticle in a $2700 scope is a little disappointing don't you think?


You should be able to find one around 2300 maybe less. Range on 6x, no need for FFP.

Join Snipers Hide and check out their optics forum. You'll get better feedback on higher end scopes and the US Khales rep is a member. Call sportoptics.com for best pricing and CS in the business.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 1:18:05 AM EST
[#19]
Deleted by me.



       


 
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 1:25:43 AM EST
[#20]
Depending on your mission for the weapon, you might consider an Elcan Spectre DR 1.5-6.  It is a great match for the SCAR 17

Bob
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 1:36:02 AM EST
[#21]

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Quoted:


Depending on your mission for the weapon, you might consider an Elcan Spectre DR 1.5-6.  It is a great match for the SCAR 17



Bob
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The Elcan makes so much sense.  I mean, whoever uses anything but 1X or 6X?  I know I don't use any 'in-between' on my SWFA SS HD.



 
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 1:50:28 AM EST
[#22]
Mk6 1-6 TMR-D this isn't even a contest.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 4:16:22 AM EST
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I was just going to edit...

One thing I do not want is a ballistic specific reticle.  That rules out the VCOG for now until they come out with additional models.

I am leaning toward a mark 6 with the TMR-D reticle right now.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
VCOG


I was just going to edit...

One thing I do not want is a ballistic specific reticle.  That rules out the VCOG for now until they come out with additional models.

I am leaning toward a mark 6 with the TMR-D reticle right now.


They're all close enough out to past 500 yards. Past that so what? Don't be lazy, learn your subtensions and adjust as necessary. I use BDCs with different loads all the time.

Get the VCOG. It's just that damn good. You will not regret it.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 4:17:24 AM EST
[#24]
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Quoted:


Given the last two scopes on your list I suppose I should add the leupold mark 8 1-8x to my short list also.
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Quoted:


Given the last two scopes on your list I suppose I should add the leupold mark 8 1-8x to my short list also.


I have a CQBSS/H27D. It's getting replaced with a VCOG. That is what is called a clue.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 4:17:51 AM EST
[#25]
Don't overlook the Swavo Z6i with the BRT reticle.  King of the 3-gun optics among the pros.   Kahles great too and the firms are affiliated.  Glass is amazing and make an ACOG look like the bottom of a coke bottle.

The BRT reticle can be avoided with another reticle but unlike many of the others, the BRT isn't labeled and you can use their ballistic calculator and simply make note at the ranges each hold represents.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 4:19:13 AM EST
[#26]
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Quoted:


In the red.  How so?  Looking for details if you can.  Thanks!
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The VCOG is pretty heavy.  23oz without the mount or a battery... Youch.

The VCOG mount weighs half what several of the popular scope mounts out there way though.

Another vote for the VCOG though. Ballistic reticle aside, I also own a Mark 6 1-6x, and the VCOG makes it its bitch.


In the red.  How so?  Looking for details if you can.  Thanks!


The reticle is usable without illumination, and the illum is also usable pretty much everywhere inside the eyebox. The MK6/MK8 requires almost perfect head position to use the illum.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 5:19:57 AM EST
[#27]
Thanks everyone for all your input!!!!  I wish I could get one of each recommended and test them out.  This is going to be a tough decision...
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 5:27:58 AM EST
[#28]
ELCAN Specter DR 1.25-6X-42mm.

Link Posted: 6/18/2014 5:28:27 AM EST
[#29]
First:

What is the purpose of the rifle?

Do you need a precision optic with the ability to drop down to 1x? Or do you need a CQB optic with the ability to use it at range when necessary? There is a difference and it effects selection. For the former, I would say the March 1-8 hands down as it is an excellent precision optic, and it can still be zoomed down to 1X. For a CQB optic that can be used at range in a pinch, I would refer to 3-gunners on this forum.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 6:07:17 AM EST
[#30]
I'd go with th S&B 1-8 PM Short Dot.  A FFP reticle with a SFP dot.  If it's anything like the 1.1-4x, the dot is as bright as an Aimpoint dot, and the glass is excellent.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 7:28:55 AM EST
[#31]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I'd go with th S&B 1-8 PM Short Dot.  A FFP reticle with a SFP dot.  If it's anything like the 1.1-4x, the dot is as bright as an Aimpoint dot, and the glass is excellent.
View Quote
I was just going to ask if anyone here has one and what are your impressions? It seems like a really, really nice optic

 
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 9:42:59 AM EST
[#32]
Kahles K16i, then the Swaro..
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 6:00:22 PM EST
[#33]
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Quoted:
Kahles K16i, then the Swaro..
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The Swarovski is very nice, but IMHO, not quite as nice as an S&B.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 6:03:19 PM EST
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I was just going to ask if anyone here has one and what are your impressions? It seems like a really, really nice optic  
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I'd go with th S&B 1-8 PM Short Dot.  A FFP reticle with a SFP dot.  If it's anything like the 1.1-4x, the dot is as bright as an Aimpoint dot, and the glass is excellent.
I was just going to ask if anyone here has one and what are your impressions? It seems like a really, really nice optic  

[sigh] I wish.  
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 7:16:24 AM EST
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I was just going to ask if anyone here has one and what are your impressions? It seems like a really, really nice optic  
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'd go with th S&B 1-8 PM Short Dot.  A FFP reticle with a SFP dot.  If it's anything like the 1.1-4x, the dot is as bright as an Aimpoint dot, and the glass is excellent.
I was just going to ask if anyone here has one and what are your impressions? It seems like a really, really nice optic  


This may have been the most sought after scopes, but after 4 years of nada after the SHOT show intro I gave up.  Honestly, had to see if anyone is actually selling it as it's been listed as coming soon for years.  It had all sorts of design and quality issues in the prototpe phase.  Same challenges with the 1-8x from Premier.

S&B is a great glass maker though so if you have the cash, I'm sure you'd be happy.  Bet they didn't release it until it was a proven product.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 9:58:19 AM EST
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


This may have been the most sought after scopes, but after 4 years of nada after the SHOT show intro I gave up.  Honestly, had to see if anyone is actually selling it as it's been listed as coming soon for years.  It had all sorts of design and quality issues in the prototpe phase.  Same challenges with the 1-8x from Premier.

S&B is a great glass maker though so if you have the cash, I'm sure you'd be happy.  Bet they didn't release it until it was a proven product.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'd go with th S&B 1-8 PM Short Dot.  A FFP reticle with a SFP dot.  If it's anything like the 1.1-4x, the dot is as bright as an Aimpoint dot, and the glass is excellent.
I was just going to ask if anyone here has one and what are your impressions? It seems like a really, really nice optic  


This may have been the most sought after scopes, but after 4 years of nada after the SHOT show intro I gave up.  Honestly, had to see if anyone is actually selling it as it's been listed as coming soon for years.  It had all sorts of design and quality issues in the prototpe phase.  Same challenges with the 1-8x from Premier.

S&B is a great glass maker though so if you have the cash, I'm sure you'd be happy.  Bet they didn't release it until it was a proven product.


It looks like swFa has it in stock and i agree. If it,lives up to its specs It looks absolutely amazing!
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 11:01:24 AM EST
[#37]
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Quoted:


It looks like swFa has it in stock and i agree. If it,lives up to its specs It looks absolutely amazing!
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'd go with th S&B 1-8 PM Short Dot.  A FFP reticle with a SFP dot.  If it's anything like the 1.1-4x, the dot is as bright as an Aimpoint dot, and the glass is excellent.
I was just going to ask if anyone here has one and what are your impressions? It seems like a really, really nice optic  


This may have been the most sought after scopes, but after 4 years of nada after the SHOT show intro I gave up.  Honestly, had to see if anyone is actually selling it as it's been listed as coming soon for years.  It had all sorts of design and quality issues in the prototpe phase.  Same challenges with the 1-8x from Premier.

S&B is a great glass maker though so if you have the cash, I'm sure you'd be happy.  Bet they didn't release it until it was a proven product.


It looks like swFa has it in stock and i agree. If it,lives up to its specs It looks absolutely amazing!

Just because SWFA lists it doesn't mean it's in stock.

The web page at CS Tactical says:

    (This S&B 1-8x is not out yet. We are being told their ETA Is Unknown At The Moment)

http://cstactical.com/962/schmidt-bender-1-8-x-24-pm-short-dot.html
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 12:35:27 PM EST
[#38]
Damn it.

Wondering if I should just get a vortex 1-4 for now and then move that to my 300 blackout when I decide/things are available.

Link Posted: 6/19/2014 12:42:51 PM EST
[#39]
I have heard good things about March scopes. I intend to buy one soon. Probably the D10V24TML ($1900).


Price list (notice mil. adjustment version)
http://www.kelbly.com/march-scopes/March%20Kelbly-Retail%20price%202014.html


reticle selection on the right
http://marchscopes.com/tactical-1-10-x-24.html

1-10x24, 18 oz, 10.5" long, 30mm tube, 200MOA windage and elevation, side focus. MOA or MIl turrets.  Good reticle selection, available with ilumination.



Link Posted: 6/19/2014 1:53:12 PM EST
[#40]
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Quoted:
Damn it.

Wondering if I should just get a vortex 1-4 for now and then move that to my 300 blackout when I decide/things are available.

View Quote

Unless you absolutely need magnification past 4x, I'd get the S&B 1.1-4x24 Short Dot LE scope.

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/242536/schmidt-and-bender-police-marksman-ii-zenith-short-dot-le-rifle-scope-30mm-tube-11-4x-24mm-illuminated-fd7-reticle-matte

I can't say enough good things about it.  The glass has a clarity that let's you pick out details that others don't, plus the dot is daylight-bright.  Great scope.
Link Posted: 6/19/2014 5:26:50 PM EST
[#41]
Hmmm, same length and size as a 1-6x
20.11 ounces compared to 16.9 for the K16i
same cost or higher than the premium 1-6x's
only 4x magnification


Link Posted: 6/19/2014 5:47:19 PM EST
[#42]
Owning a PST would not be a bad way to go until you figure out what you really want. It also might help you decide what features you want and don't want. You wouldn't lose much selling it or it would be a decent scope for a back-up/beater rifle/etc.. Can't go wrong here, IMO.
Link Posted: 6/20/2014 7:46:23 AM EST
[#43]
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Quoted:
Hmmm, same length and size as a 1-6x
20.11 ounces compared to 16.9 for the K16i
same cost or higher than the premium 1-6x's
only 4x magnification
View Quote

Optics are always a set of trade-offs, and a personal choice.  All I'll say is that I have both the Z6i and the S&B 1.1-4x Short Dot LE, and I use the S&B for competition.  For what I do, clarity is more important than the extra 2x magnification.  Not saying there's anything wrong with the Z6i (hell, I like it), but I think the S&B has the edge.

As always, YMMV.

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