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Posted: 2/4/2006 10:18:31 AM EDT
[#1]
Uh......
quit trying to attach everything to your weapon. I wouldn't add anything else. It sounds like you have a good set up already. Keep your extra batteries in your range bag, rucksack, or maybe a stowable pistol grip. I would only keep one extra set on my weapon. If you need more than that- you will need an ammo resupply anyways. JMHO |
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Posted: 2/4/2006 10:30:52 AM EDT
[#2]
You need a light.
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Posted: 2/4/2006 11:29:17 AM EDT
[#3]
just put some rail panels on there and be done with it.
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Posted: 2/4/2006 11:32:00 AM EDT
[#4]
Dallman, what are you using you AR for? Beyond that, do not, I repeat do not look to go slapping things on your rifle that you are not absolutely sure you need. Otherwise, you will just end up throwing money away. No one that I am aware of makes any compartments that attach to rail systems because there is not a demand for one. The current storage spaces on an AR are: - VFG - pistol grip - buttstock If you can't fit everything you need in those spots then you might have other problems. |
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Posted: 2/4/2006 11:42:13 AM EDT
[#5]
"What are you bringing those for? We won't need the nods!"
If you want to be a great shooter with your carbine, you'll be practicing. The difference between a bull barrell and an M4 contour is amazing after a day of up drills. If you'll EVER need a light, keep it on your rifle and practice that way (just my opinion.) As you train, so shall you fight and all that stuff. Sounds like your idea might sell to a lot of people though. You should approache someone about making and marketing rail mount storage areas. SOMEONE will buy it. |
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Posted: 2/4/2006 11:50:56 AM EDT
[#6]
Well, I am deciding between an Eotech or a Trijicon TA31F for the optics. If I go with the Eotech (with Aimpoint 3x) then it takes two AA batteries, which fill my VFG. The Pistol grip is holding an OTIS cleaning kit, and the VLTOR buttstock has extra batteries for my M6x (which will be attached on the Bayo Lug) . I still would like a few more barries for the streamlight, because it burns out after just a few hours of use, and a few spares for the laser would offer a nice peice of mind. A compartment holding a spare firing pin would be nice, too. I do not hold the rifle by the Rail Handguard system, so have no use for rail panels. I am not trying to over accessorize, just thought that if the product was available to utilized that wasted space, I would look into it, and see if it meets my needs.
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Posted: 2/4/2006 12:09:08 PM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 2/4/2006 1:53:02 PM EDT
[#8]
Namely, I would like to be able to carry a spare firing pin, without loosing any battery sowage. If I could also gain room for a few more spare batteries, that would be great also. The M6X lights provide remarkable illumination, but only offer, at a minimum, 60 minutes of continuous run time. Maybe room for a spare bulb would be nice, also.
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Posted: 2/4/2006 1:54:47 PM EDT
[#9]
How about a light and.........................................a kickstand to help you hold it up.
 A light and FVG is all the ever gets installed on my rails. 
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Posted: 2/4/2006 2:07:37 PM EDT
[#10]
Maybe I'm the odd one?
I just have a vert grip and 3 unused rails... Don't see the point in anything else really.... |
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Posted: 2/4/2006 2:32:46 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 2/4/2006 2:51:30 PM EDT
[#12]
I am just trying to design a rifle with maximized versatility, that is 'rack ready' for any type of engagment. Having the spare batteries, cleaning kit, extra ammunition, and spare parts all attached to the gun means not needing any additional equipment, such as a ruck sack or range bag. The term I have seen used on this forum that best describes the design is a 'SHTF rifle', and some may use that term. But truely, I just like the challenge of planning the proper coordination of accessories to meet a particular function, then buying and combining those accessories and seeing my idea come to fruition.
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Posted: 2/4/2006 3:31:45 PM EDT
[#13]
I have a rifle like that, it's 10 pounds emtpy, with all the batteries removed from the pistol grip and stock compartments
 At that weight I can barely lift it with one hand to do a mag change or a failure drill (pull, tug, roll the weapon, pull back the charging handle) without tugging the stock between my arm and body. Having everything on it sure seems like a good idea until the first hour of a class. People have joking said to hit the gym, but it's the weight that's mostly in front that makes the weapon hard to grasp in one hand. Civilians taking gun fighting classes does have the benefit of testing out gears. What looks good on catalogs and in gun porns we post for each other may not be such a good fighting tool. This is the configuration I use during the day  This is how it normally looks for the camera and during night shoots 
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Posted: 2/4/2006 3:40:47 PM EDT
[#14]
Liar!! I've seen a bipod before!  Flame if you want, but I wouldn't mind a 3 piece cleaning/clearing rod that clips into a rail cover-like mount... |
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Posted: 2/4/2006 4:04:06 PM EDT
[#15]
Duffy,
You do have a lot of weight out front. I am combatting this on my rifle with two methods, first, I am keeping the Rail system to only half of the barrel, secondly, I am using a fluted barrel to knock off some of the weight. Also, I have a Bi-pod attached for support when shooting prone, which is a double edged sword. It adds weight while standing but distributes it while sitting or prone. Fortunately the harris bipods dont weigh THAT much! I am also thinking of making a second version built on an SBR registered lower. I am planning on getting a can for this gun, and that makes the 16" way too heavy and too long for good entry tactics. Using an 10.5-11.5 bbl will help eliminate both problems. |
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Posted: 2/4/2006 4:32:31 PM EDT
[#16]
Ditch the bipods and the bipods attachment
 You're better off without them 
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Posted: 2/4/2006 4:39:12 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 2/4/2006 4:42:53 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 2/4/2006 4:50:33 PM EDT
[#19]
I'm just yanking your chain. I understand what you're saying and I can see myself saying something very similar but when I read your post, it just caught me as amusing.
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Posted: 2/4/2006 5:04:57 PM EDT
[#20]
+1 on the kickstand
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Posted: 2/4/2006 5:09:56 PM EDT
[#21]
Bipods do not allow you to get as flat as you can, and make it difficult to track a moving target. The weapon's recoil tends to bounce it off where it used to be. If you lay as low as possible and have a good, firm cheekweld, the muzzle would move up but an inch or so.
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Posted: 2/4/2006 5:38:05 PM EDT
[#22]
The new night vision compatible EOTech uses surefire batteries. In a perfect world get everything to run on the same batteries. 
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Posted: 2/4/2006 5:44:18 PM EDT
[#23]
True, and I would prefer universility, but I would need to carry 8 spare Surefire batteries to get the useage life from using AA batteries. I would rather that Streamlight made a AA version of their M6x, hopefully also quadrupaling the run time and lower the overall operating costs two fold. |
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Posted: 2/4/2006 5:49:20 PM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 2/4/2006 5:53:32 PM EDT
[#25]
Yes, that is why I have sort of decided on the Trijicon TA31F. Precision aiming point at the tip of the triangle, BDC lines for distance shooting, no batteries required, durable, and has a longer eye relief than standard scoped optics. And a Bright red aiming triangle for Close Quarters Fast target acquisition. |
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Posted: 2/4/2006 6:18:47 PM EDT
[#26]
I've found that the Accupoint's longer eye relief (4.8"-3.4") and adjustable magnification makes using BAC much easier when compared to a fixed 4X ACOG, at least for me. I've also been told by an "experienced" board member that some folks in the sandbox are using them (Accupoints) and they're holding up quite well. |
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Posted: 2/4/2006 9:59:42 PM EDT
[#27]
Why do you change over to a green grip and green panels for nighttime use?  |
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Posted: 2/4/2006 10:04:34 PM EDT
[#28]
hehe I was playing around with colors when I took that pic, they're back to black now
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Posted: 2/5/2006 9:54:00 AM EDT
[#29]
This is the "tail wagging the DOG !! "
Empty rails begging to be filled. As my Dad used to say, "to a man with a new hammer, everything appears to be a nail"..... You attach things to your weapon that you need to fight with. Unless you are on long patrols, etc, you don't need: A cleaning kit "on/in" the rifle. Half the people here brag about never cleaning their weapon, for the others, like me... clean "after action" even if that action is just a day at the range with your buddies. Spare firing pin? How many have you broken? Where on the rifle are you storing the tool needed to pull the "firing pin retaining pin" out of the bolt? More than one set of batteries? Start fresh and they'll last an hour in most weapons lights. Learn light discipline and use the on off switch. Between the set in the light and spares you've plenty of time. IMHO - VFG if that is your habit and training. Light on a quick mount, kept in your vehicle, "go-bag" or pack; added when conditions require. Take the couple of hundred dollars that you're itching to spend and take a class or buy more ammo for practice. |
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Posted: 2/5/2006 10:37:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Excellent post 200-10x. As I said previously, I have been down this road before and tried to build a rifle that would work in any situation no matter what. After wasting time and money, I found out it's not possible. You can get close to achieving that goal but you cannot reach because you can only plan so much for the unexpected. You're much better off setting up a rifle that will great in the most common situations. I ended up putting all sorts of junk on my ARs (never bought a laser though!) and now I'm starting to reverse the process and strip things down. I've learned a lot along the way but as is usually the case, education is never cheap. When I was at the range yesterday, I checked out a stock RRA Elite CAR and was amazed at now nice and light a stock rifle felt. The fact is a bullet coming from that rifle would be just as effective as one with 5 lbs of accessories on it. Please don't misunderstand me. In the right situation, some add-ons can make getting the job done easier and faster but that always comes at a price and I'm not just talking about money. Heck, I'm getting to the point where rail panels are becoming extraneous to me!.
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Posted: 2/5/2006 11:07:01 AM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 2/5/2006 11:07:41 AM EDT
[#32]
Ya, you got me.  Mostly for photo ops, but my long range rifles all wear a bipod, but not a FVG or flashlight. |
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Posted: 2/5/2006 11:22:14 AM EDT
[#33]
Don't forget the stickers.
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Posted: 2/5/2006 12:55:04 PM EDT
[#34]
How about a sling adaptor? Take advantage of the free float rail.
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Posted: 2/5/2006 1:36:41 PM EDT
[#35]
I can pull the retaining pin using the tip of a bullet. The only way that doesn't work is if you are out of ammo, and at that point, you don't really need an operable firing pin, now do you?
Well, I have two dozen ARs that are strip down versions. Wanting extra function and more versatility and extended durability is what drove the design of the AR15 in the first place. It is also why we now drive Hummers instead of Jeeps in the military and why we put jet engines on our fighters instead of props. "If it ain't broke - don't fix it" is one thing, but you seem to promote the philosophy that "if it is good enough for me, no one else better try improving it!" |
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Posted: 2/5/2006 2:03:16 PM EDT
[#36]
Hey, I have no dog in this fight. It's not my rifle so I could care less what you put on it. All I attempted to do was offer some advice based upon personal experience. You can either choose to listen to it or ignore. Either way makes no difference to me. I bought a lot of crap when I started shooting ARs and over time I've found that I don't need a lot of those things. Maybe you do need a lot of extra things and maybe you don't but I don't really know because I'm now you. You can think out an AR build as much as you like but the fact is you never know if a particular configuration will work for you until you actually put it through a real live situation or the closest approximation of to a real live situation. |
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Posted: 2/5/2006 4:57:35 PM EDT
[#37]
I have 8 of them on my rifle - 4 on each hand.  I keep a spare bolt, firing pin, and cam pin in my carbine foregrip. I'd also like to add a broken shell extractor like the one I keep in my A2 (along with the cleaning kit and the all important cleaning rod). The weight is negligible, the peace of mind is not. As for weight... I have to agree, I like light rifles. My full sized A2 (gov't profile) is plain jane and weighs a good deal less than the 16" middy with all the goodies on it. Everyone who is an AR shooter and multiple AR owner needs at least one basic A1 or A2 iron sighted rifle. I honestly prefer to shoot the A2, but it doesn't do me a whole lot of good in the dark; so, I have the middy with an EOTech and a light. The light is what really bogs it down (Larue Battlelight), but it's on a QD so I don't have it on there when I don't need it. |
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Posted: 2/5/2006 6:38:56 PM EDT
[#38]
True, Matt_B, but if you are going to carry these spare items in a ruck or range bag, then you are still hauling around the same amount of weight. Keeping the spare items with the equipment they are designed to back-up only makes sense to me. |
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Posted: 2/6/2006 4:37:28 AM EDT
[#39]
Case in point - range bags. I used to use a big range bag. It was pretty much the biggest I could find. Fully loaded w/ammo and 2 pistols, it would weigh 30-40 lbs. IT had a wide padded shoulder strap but because it only had one strap, it was a pain in the butt to haul around the range. I recently switched to a Maxpedition back pack and with the same weight distributed by across my shoulders and back, the weight feels significantly less. Keeping spare parts and batteries handy is only common sense but you can put these items in an LBV or pack that you will grab, along with a rifle, if you have to get the heck out of Dodge. |
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Posted: 2/6/2006 8:50:44 AM EDT
[#40]
Right, and I have many rifle built on that concept, But this one I am trying to make all inclusive and rack ready. I Understand that that means it being a little heavy, but that is sort of part of the project. |
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Posted: 2/6/2006 11:01:57 AM EDT
[#41]
+1 He will learn his lesson the hard way. He wants what looks cool and he imagines will be functional. He is not concerned with what works best. |
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Posted: 2/6/2006 11:45:54 AM EDT
[#42]
When I first joined ArfCom, I wanted a 16" HBAR A3/A4 upper with a rifle length ARMS SIR, a bipod, a Tango Down VFG, a Surefire light, a Vortex FH, a laser of some sort, a four rail gas block with a flip up sight, an Aimpoint with a 3x magnifier, a rear BUIS, a Magpul M93, and one of the Sierra Precision SPR grips.
Looking back, I don't know whether to laugh or bow my head in shame. Now a rail system, a VFG, a light, an EOTech, some BUIS's, and a sling would be an excessive combo for me. I'll probably get a Surefire M900 because it's one simple piece instead of a long snag prone wire and a super tactical tape switch that will eventually fall off. Go for balance. I'd rather have a 12 pound rifle that balances well than an 8 pound rifle that's excessively muzzle heavy. So in short, don't think you can hang that much on the front of a rifle and still have it be comfortable. |
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Posted: 2/6/2006 12:12:53 PM EDT
[#43]
Do you have a bottle opener/corkscrew yet?
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Posted: 2/6/2006 12:53:10 PM EDT
[#44]
I've pulled the VFGs off of all my ARs and I'm trying them for a while without them. So, I don't miss them that much but I haven't been shooting much AR lately (it's pistol season for me) so the jury's still out. |
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Posted: 2/6/2006 2:46:03 PM EDT
[#45]
I scrapped my M900 because it is 20oz and I dont need a flashlight past 50 yards. I was able to get a light and grip combo for HALF the weight of the M900... 10oz off the front of the rifle is nothing to sneeze at. |
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Posted: 2/6/2006 8:01:45 PM EDT
[#46]
Why does everyone on this forum ignore what is asked and use every thread as a soapbox to tell the inquisitor how stupid he was for asking the question? Do you realize how NOT helpful that is, and how off base from the information that I was looking for when creating this thread?
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Posted: 2/6/2006 9:21:16 PM EDT
[#47]
I keep a spare bolt & carrier in my mag bag. If I don't need a quick emergency fix, say firing pin, extractor, etc. I will repair it at home. If I need it quick the carrier and bolt gets changed. I don't want to be fumbling with the firing pin with zombies approaching. On one AR I just installed a weapon light on one of my rails with a pressure switch on the v grip. Its great for what I intend it for. It's on the AR that sits by my bed. The other ARs have other accessories for different applications. As far as I am concerned another weapon is the greatest backup.
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Posted: 2/7/2006 12:17:02 AM EDT
[#48]
I saw someone here sometime ago that used a section of PVC and attached it with scope rings to one of his rails. The ends were capped and he put little field use doo-dads in it.
Just dont wind up like this guy. 
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