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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 9/11/2010 6:29:58 PM EDT
I'm building my first ar, a 6.8, and I'd like to get a 22 upper for cheap plinking. I'm new to the whole ar world, I've been more of an ak man up till now, so any help would be appreciated.

This is one I've been looking at; from Tactical Solutions

I'm unfamiliar with 4140 lined aluminum barrels. Are there any issues I should know about? limited lifespan? poor accuracy due to heat?

Also, is there a way to attach a picatiny rail to the handguard? I just want to be able to mount a bipod...

Thanks
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 7:44:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 7:51:08 PM EDT by frog5215]
Why the lightweight?
I don't see uppers with quadrail handguards on TacSol's website, but they can probably fix you up.
Spikes, CMMG, M1S, any of these outfits will set you up with whatever configuration you want.
Model 1 Sales' website shows menus, but a phone call to Spikes or probably CMMG will get whatever components you want,; TacSol will likely accomodate specific requests.

If you're building this as a trainer for your 6.8, (or any other caliber) you can exactly duplicate the centerfire setup with your rimfire upper
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 7:51:09 PM EDT
I really could care less about the weight. The main thing I liked about it was the free float handguards.
Also the thicker barrel, but that may not matter since most of it is aluminum, like I said, no experience with that sort of thing.

I just want to get the most accurate 22 upper I can.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 8:02:29 PM EDT
I'm sure it's not the norm but I had a TacSol aluminum barrel for my 10/22. It shot 1.5-2" at 50 yards. Not impressive. Same set up with a Green Mountain fluted bull barrel shot sub 1/2" at 50 yards.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 8:18:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shadowcop:
I'm sure it's not the norm but I had a TacSol aluminum barrel for my 10/22. It shot 1.5-2" at 50 yards. Not impressive. Same set up with a Green Mountain fluted bull barrel shot sub 1/2" at 50 yards.


Good to know. Thanks
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 8:50:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 9:07:50 PM EDT by frog5215]
Many free float quad rail handguards are available. These have Picatinney rails top, bottom, and both sides. easy to mount a bipod and any number of other accessories, necessary and superfluous.
F'rinstance:

http://www.yhm.net/store/forearms.html
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 9:19:38 PM EDT
Those are some pretty good prices; a lot cheaper than the Sampson c-star I got from Stag on my 6.8 upper.

After reading more threads here, I found CMMG's 22 uppers. Seems like a good deal at $360. I might have to pick one up and add a free float myself.

My buddy has a 22 conversion for his colt, it's a lot of fun just because it's so cheap to shoot. At about $1 a round, I won't be able to shoot my 6.8 like I do my ak's.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 12:29:23 AM EDT
Ordered a CMMG from New Frountier Armory back on the 1st. Still waiting for it to show up.......but it should be fun once it dose show up.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 5:07:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 9:26:13 AM EDT by SpecOps-13]
If you haven't already read through the 22 sticky, go to the link that I give you and look through the
dedicated uppers, you'll possible learn more than you want but you'll be able to make an informed
decision when you make a purchase... Good Luck


This page, 3/4 of the way down, starts the dedicated uppers but conversions are mixed in as you go
through. Just skip over those write ups since you are interested in a dedicated upper.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=441890&page=2
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 5:13:06 AM EDT
CMMG is going to be very hard to top from price, quality, reliability, and from my experience with the Quebec, accuracy. Match barrels will also be offered from CMMG.
My Quebec has shot .8 groups at 50 yards using Eley match with a stock barrel.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 7:33:27 AM EDT
And bear in mind that for most folks here, a conversion is something that replaces a .223 BCG and costs $150-200; what TacSol calls a conversion, everyone else calls a dedicated .22 upper.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 7:46:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By frog5215:
And bear in mind that for most folks here, a conversion is something that replaces a .223 BCG and costs $150-200; what TacSol calls a conversion, everyone else calls a dedicated .22 upper.


I'll disagree with you on this. A dedicated upper should not only include the 22 bolt but a barrel with the correct 1/16 twist to better accomodate the 22lr round, as well as operating as a totally blow back system without the gas tube. Yes you could shoot 22lr out of your 223. but you will need to clean it out and the twist is not Correct for the round. I don't have experience with any dedicated uppers other than my 2 Spikes ST-22's. One is a Lothar Walther the other a Green Mountain. Both extremely accurate.

Link Posted: 9/12/2010 8:47:15 AM EDT
My spikes tactical w/ lothar walther barrel option is VERY accurate w/ pretty much everything I feed it, ymmv.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 8:48:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 8:52:29 AM EDT by frog5215]
WTF?

In case anybody ELSE here can't read or think; the term " dedicated upper" as used in EVERYBODY'S consideration of .22 ARs ( except TacSol's website) means:

1. a milspec AR 15 upper receiver
2. a rimfire barrel of appropriate bore (usually .221-.222" groove) and twist (15-16", unless exclusive use of Aguila SSS 60gr is intended, in which case a 1:9" twist is preferred)
3. USUALLY a .22LR chamber, varying from normal .22LR semiauto sloppy chamber for reliability , to Bentz and other tighter chambers for better accuracy, at the possible expense of some reliability.
Dedicated uppers of good reputed accuracy have been built on rimfire barrels with .223 chambers in order to use unmodified conversion bolts. The best known of these are Kurt's Kustom Firearms uppers , rest Kurt's soul.
It has only been in the last 18-24 months that modified chamber inserts have become readily available, pioneered by Rick Kuehl, and separately by DPMS.
It has been fairly common to use 1:12" twist .223 barrels in roll your own dedicated uppers ( dedicated by virtue of no gas tube installed and no intent of ever using a centerfire BCG or ammo) and any variety of the commonly available conversion bolt: Atchisson/Ciener, M-261, Air Force, Colt, and DPMS. Now, everybody and their dog makes an Atchisson bolt. Accuracy of these is said to be good, especially as compared to accuracy in fast twist .223 barrels.

Lastly my statement with which Pimped disagrees is fact, not opinion ( something to which everybody is entitled to, one or several).
A casual glance at TacSol's website shows only dedicated uppers, WHICH THE WEBSITE CALLS CONVERSIONS.
On the websites of Spike'sTactical, JACiener, CMMG, Black Dog Machime LLC, Brownells, and the whole AR15.com Rimfire and Pistol Caliber page/threads, a CONVERSION (with reference to AR15s) replaces the BCG of a .223/5.56 upper.
I hate to get into a pissing contest over what a manufacturer calls their conversion, but TacSol has departed orthodoxy.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 9:29:20 AM EDT
Great info everyone. I'll be sure to read through that tacked thread, I just got a case of the "new toy giddies" and got a bit impatient.

I will say there seems to be an overwhelming amount of info on this subject. But I have a couple more questions.

How well do parts interchange among these uppers? For instance, could I get a cheap CMMG upper and later upgrade the barrel myself?

Since there is no gas tube, do these uppers run cleaner than the 223 conversions? I know my buddies rifle gets crudded up quick shooting the 60gr out of his Colt.

Thanks again for all the help, the ability to switch calibers in a snap is really making me see why so many guys like the ar platform. I can't do that with my ak's
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:25:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 10:34:30 AM EDT by shadowcop]
The CMMG dedicated upper uses a spring detent on the collar and a notched ring around the barrel to hold it in place. Mix and match will more than likely cause you problems. CMMG and Spikes use the same "type" BCG. The collars are interchangable.

I do not have hands on experience with the TacSol dedicated .22. I don't know that the parts are interchangable.

CMMG and Spikes will offer match barrel up grades. So if you have one of those systems, you can add a different barrel later if you choose. The barrel is replaced just like any other AR barrel.

The dedicated uppers will run some cleaner but you still get a lot of crud in the receivers. .22 is by nature dirty.

I'll be adding a free float to my CMMG. I'm getting good groups now with the stock barrel so it can just get better.
There will be many exclusive features offered for the CMMG Evolution system. It stands apart from other systems. You will be able to add what you want.
Check here for information:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=145&t=188909
Dave
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:48:47 AM EDT
TacSol barrels and bolts don't work with anybody else's bolts and barrels.
Their system has some desirable characteristics, but they're not clearly better than others, just different. Not clearly worse, either.
With an action vise and wrench, assembly is not very demanding, on the whole. Access to a bench vice is pretty nice, though.
Getting a PRI Gen III lined up so the full length SWAN sleeve will mount right, well, that's an advanced lesson.
But I'm self taught.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 5:44:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 5:48:19 PM EDT by texjames]
I have the Tac Sol AR22 M4 upper and really like it.Only AR22 i have experience with.I also have a Tac Sol Pac Lite upper for my Ruger MK3.
Here is a video of me reviewing a Quest Suppressor but i'm shoot'n the Tac Sol's...very accurate and dependable guns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9Yw1z_3PM4
Here is another one of mine..forgot about this one...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3tKeQ_2f9Q
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 5:46:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shadowcop:
I'm sure it's not the norm but I had a TacSol aluminum barrel for my 10/22. It shot 1.5-2" at 50 yards. Not impressive. Same set up with a Green Mountain fluted bull barrel shot sub 1/2" at 50 yards.


Their guarantee is less than 1" at 50 yards, if it is not doing that, send it back.

Link Posted: 9/12/2010 6:21:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2010 6:23:08 PM EDT by shadowcop]
I did. They told me they mounted it on one of their receivers and their shooter shot 1/2" off hand at 50 yards
I'm sure someone in the world can do that but to put a barrel on a strange reciever and shoot those groups off hand with a barrel I set up on a bedded stock and could only get 1.5-2" at 50, I had a problem with. They sent it back, I remounted it, and had the same results. The GM barrel shot sub 1/2" at 50 yards for less than half the price.
The TacSol was pretty though.
They traded me for a PacLite upper for my 22/45. Great shooter.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:58:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 12:00:23 PM EDT by rman43]
iamg0ku,

I have a TacSol M4 and an LT. They both seem to shoot equally well with the ammo they like. I haven't been able to pick a winner yet.
The only way to attach a picatinny rail to the free float handguard is to drill and tap it.

Tom
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 6:33:29 PM EDT
Thanks for all the info guys. Sounds like I won't be disappointed with a TacSol or a Spikes, on the other hand, it seems like CMMG has a lot of neat stuff in the works. But I don't think I can wait for that...

Let me ask this: Which is more inherently accurate? The aluminum-steel jacketed TacSol, or a Lothar Walther Spikes? Or are they about the same?
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 6:36:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 6:40:49 PM EDT by shadowcop]
I had a Lothar Walther 11.5" from Spikes that would shoot sub 1/2" at 50 yards with Federal Auto Match. So my vote would go with the LW. It's tough steel. I don't believe you could ever shoot one out.
The TacSol is basically a stainless .22 tube surounded by an alminum tube. The TacSol is definetly lite weight if it's like my 10/22 barrel. And just because I had a bad one, doesn't mean any of the rest are. Just how it goes with me.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:26:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shadowcop:
I had a Lothar Walther 11.5" from Spikes that would shoot sub 1/2" at 50 yards with Federal Auto Match. So my vote would go with the LW. It's tough steel. I don't believe you could ever shoot one out.
The TacSol is basically a stainless .22 tube surounded by an alminum tube. The TacSol is definetly lite weight if it's like my 10/22 barrel. And just because I had a bad one, doesn't mean any of the rest are. Just how it goes with me.


Those are the kind of endorsements I was looking for
Spikes is looking better all the time...
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 8:42:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By iamg0ku:
Originally Posted By shadowcop:
I had a Lothar Walther 11.5" from Spikes that would shoot sub 1/2" at 50 yards with Federal Auto Match. So my vote would go with the LW. It's tough steel. I don't believe you could ever shoot one out.
The TacSol is basically a stainless .22 tube surounded by an alminum tube. The TacSol is definetly lite weight if it's like my 10/22 barrel. And just because I had a bad one, doesn't mean any of the rest are. Just how it goes with me.


Those are the kind of endorsements I was looking for
Spikes is looking better all the time...


Here's what mine looked like:




Link Posted: 9/14/2010 4:41:51 PM EDT
Thanks for all the help. Sorry to disappoint, but I found all the upper I think I'll ever need in a Nordic!
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 5:03:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2010 5:06:58 PM EDT by shadowcop]
Nothing disappointing. Good luck with it. I've heard good things about Nordic!
I'll still put my CMMG up against it any day
Dave
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