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Posted: 8/27/2013 5:18:39 PM EDT
[#1]
14.5 is a popular barrel length...lets think about this logically. MOST flash hiders are 2.25 inches in length, which brings a 14.5 inch barrel up to 16.1 inches. vortex, yhm, aac, etc... are all 2.25. 14.7 inch barrels exist to pin an a2 on (which is cheap and effective). so to answer your question, the vortex, like most, was built to bring a 14.5" barrel up to 16 inches.
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Posted: 8/27/2013 5:29:01 PM EDT
[#2]
For effective, 13.7" barrel with a BE Meyers flash hider.
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Posted: 8/27/2013 5:48:36 PM EDT
[#3]
14.5 + 2.25= 16.75 I think they may be 2.25" but not from the muzzle. I'll check on the Meyers, I forgot about that one. A little expensive but so is everything else, if I remember correctly they are longer. Thanks.
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Posted: 8/27/2013 5:52:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
14.5 + 2.25= 16.75 I think they may be 2.25" but not from the muzzle. I'll check on the Meyers, I forgot about that one. A little expensive but so is everything else, if I remember correctly they are longer. Thanks. You're forgetting thread overlap. A 14.5" barrel with 2.25" flash hider will be right around 16.1". |
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Posted: 8/27/2013 6:05:56 PM EDT
[#5]
No I am saying with thread overlap it is 16.1". My point was that a Vortex sits on a 14.5 correctly to make it 16.1". But how long exactly is it from the muzzle? The Meyers is 2.75", how long is that from the muzzle? Whatever it is from the muzzle you can remove from a 16"+ barrel to bring the length back to 16+. I need the length after the muzzle NOT OAL(overall length).
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Posted: 8/27/2013 6:16:07 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
14.5 + 2.25= 16.75 I think they may be 2.25" but not from the muzzle. I'll check on the Meyers, I forgot about that one. A little expensive but so is everything else, if I remember correctly they are longer. Thanks. your numbers only work if you weld the flash hider directly to the muzzle. you lose approximately .65 inches due to thread overlap...give or take a few hundredths of an inch. unfamiliar with the BE Meyers, however they say it's only 2.75 inches long. following the same logic of every other flash hider losing approximately .65 inches of length due to threading, a 13.7" barrel would be too short (15.8 inches OAL). they say they have other models but they don't say what their lengths are? unless they make one that will work with a 13.7" barrel IMO it wouldn't be worth it to do this. you realistically gain nothing but add about 65$ to your cost because you will have to have a 16" barrel cut down to 14. no one makes a 14 inch barrel as is. |
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Posted: 8/27/2013 7:10:48 PM EDT
[#7]
That's why I asked, I know the traditional ways to get to 16.1". I figured maybe someone had taken a different rout to get to the same place. It seems the best thing to do is go with a 14.5" barrel and pin on the Smith Vortex. Or get the stamp and go SBR which is something I really do not want to do.
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Posted: 8/27/2013 7:21:51 PM EDT
[#8]
there are actually TWO other options, but both of them are pointless which is why I didn't mention them erlier. the noveske kx3 (which is expensive and heavy) can be pinned to a 13.7" barrel (that's why noveske makes the 13.7 barrel). this setup is heavier than a pinned 14.5 barrel though. only reason to do it is to have a flame thrower. the other option is an 11.5" barrel with a 5.5" car-15/xm177 style flash hider. I've actually done the math on that, and by my rough estimates that setup is no lighter than a 14.5" barrel. you remove 3 inches of muzzle velocity and lose dwell time (reliability) on your gas system for no decrease in weight. if you want an xm177 style clone that's the only reason to go that route. pinned 14.5 is the "norm" because it's what works better than any option for keeping an OAL of 16"
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Posted: 8/27/2013 7:23:52 PM EDT
[#9]
But I see no point unless you plan on grinding the pin out later after waiting on an SBR stamp, in which case it would be easier just to build it as a pistol in the meantime. |
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Posted: 8/27/2013 7:30:19 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.del-ton.com/v/vspfiles/photos/BP1017-2.gif But I see no point unless you plan on grinding the pin out later after waiting on an SBR stamp, in which case it would be easier just to build it as a pistol in the meantime. Hey is that rifle your dog is hugging an AR with the NEA stock? I just ordered one for this build. Yes I know the other options and why. I thought about the 13.7 and the PIG and it defeats the purpose. I don't want anything too heavy at the end of the barrel. Plus all the KX3s are going for ridiculous prices now. The whole fake XM177 is not what I am looking for. Form follows function. |
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Posted: 8/27/2013 7:33:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey is that rifle your dog is hugging an AR with the NEA stock? I just ordered one for this build. Yes I know the other options and why. I thought about the 13.7 and the PIG and it defeats the purpose. I don't want anything too heavy at the end of the barrel. Plus all the KX3s are going for ridiculous prices now. The whole fake XM177 is not what I am looking for. Form follows function. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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http://www.del-ton.com/v/vspfiles/photos/BP1017-2.gif But I see no point unless you plan on grinding the pin out later after waiting on an SBR stamp, in which case it would be easier just to build it as a pistol in the meantime. Hey is that rifle your dog is hugging an AR with the NEA stock? I just ordered one for this build. Yes I know the other options and why. I thought about the 13.7 and the PIG and it defeats the purpose. I don't want anything too heavy at the end of the barrel. Plus all the KX3s are going for ridiculous prices now. The whole fake XM177 is not what I am looking for. Form follows function. Nordic Components (discontinued) and my bufferless upper. 
I agree with you on the KX3, I have one on my 7.5" upper, and it does exactly what it's designed to, direct the blast away from the shooter. With good ammo, it's not too bad on the flash, and it feels like shooting a 20" rifle when it comes to blast. I use mine for 2-3 gun matches with good results. I wouldn't put one on a longer barrel, the further out there it's hanging, the heavier it's going to feel. |
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Posted: 8/27/2013 8:10:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Fulcrum, basic math or physics, whatever. The longer out it is the more pull, like a see-saw. On a really short barrel it doesn't have much if any effect, on a long barrel the affect gets more pronounced with the length of the barrel. If you free float the barrel my guess is that it's better if you have a thin barrel or a very rigid one without a lot of weight. I can see why rifle builders are going to shorter barrels. Less distance but more accuracy though. You have to find a compromise. With the AR it might be a matter of bullet weight and twist rate with that equation.
Nice rifle, I'm basically doing something similar. I want a short lightweight rifle, a Jungle Carbine so to speak. Just something I thought about when I was in the Army. It was after Nam but I grew up with NAM, ya know. The thing I noticed was the M16A1 was too long for mech troops. I liked my M3 Grease gun much better, if I had to I think I could shoot it from the drivers hatch of the M113, I could not with the M16. I'm going to add a camo or multicam upper/lower set and matching handguard with a 14.5" barrel and Smith Vortex at the muzzle, plus the short stock. http://www.theammosource.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2177 This should be a really awesome build. First I have to get to Texas, exactly one month away. I plan on getting a DDM4V5 first and build the Jungle Carbine and a 9mm AR with the Double Diamond lower. Form follows function but it's nice to look good too. |
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Posted: 9/1/2013 4:05:58 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For effective, 13.7" barrel with a BE Meyers flash hider. Can anyone confirm this results in 16.0" or greater? |
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Posted: 9/2/2013 7:41:51 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can anyone confirm this results in 16.0" or greater? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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For effective, 13.7" barrel with a BE Meyers flash hider. Can anyone confirm this results in 16.0" or greater? Weapon Outfitters did, I think the thread is in their industry forum. |
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Posted: 9/3/2013 7:18:20 AM EDT
[#15]
13.7" Rainier barrel, with the Noveske KX3 on it. Was a bit of an adventure getting it pinned and welded, but it is the most fun upper I have. Great at night with the fireball awesomeness. |
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Posted: 9/3/2013 7:37:20 AM EDT
[#16]
I've seen one person claim a 13.7" with the YHM 308 Phantom can adapter will hit 16". If it works, that would look wicked with a 13" Geissle Mk4.
There's also the G36 flash hiders from HK Parts. |
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Posted: 9/3/2013 7:43:10 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
13.7" Rainier barrel, with the Noveske KX3 on it. Was a bit of an adventure getting it pinned and welded, but it is the most fun upper I have. Great at night with the fireball awesomeness. That's a lot of weight hung way out there 
I love my 7.5" with KX3, that's what it was designed for, but anything much longer than that and I might as well hang a stainless suppressor on it |
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Posted: 9/3/2013 9:02:03 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a lot of weight hung way out there
I love my 7.5" with KX3, that's what it was designed for, but anything much longer than that and I might as well hang a stainless suppressor on it Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
13.7" Rainier barrel, with the Noveske KX3 on it. Was a bit of an adventure getting it pinned and welded, but it is the most fun upper I have. Great at night with the fireball awesomeness. That's a lot of weight hung way out there
I love my 7.5" with KX3, that's what it was designed for, but anything much longer than that and I might as well hang a stainless suppressor on it Yes, completely cosmetic. It matches my shoes great. But, for bringing the 13.7" to 16" and throwing flame, it's the best. |
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Posted: 9/4/2013 12:02:57 AM EDT
[#19]
lothar walther 13.7 barrel 223 wylde
Hera arms linear compensator This is what im doing for my next build. Comp is over 3 inches. |
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Posted: 9/4/2013 1:16:24 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a lot of weight hung way out there
I love my 7.5" with KX3, that's what it was designed for, but anything much longer than that and I might as well hang a stainless suppressor on it Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
13.7" Rainier barrel, with the Noveske KX3 on it. Was a bit of an adventure getting it pinned and welded, but it is the most fun upper I have. Great at night with the fireball awesomeness. That's a lot of weight hung way out there
I love my 7.5" with KX3, that's what it was designed for, but anything much longer than that and I might as well hang a stainless suppressor on it You must not shoot with suppressors much, a 4 oz muzzle device is not heavy. |
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Posted: 9/4/2013 4:58:57 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You must not shoot with suppressors much, a 4 oz muzzle device is not heavy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
13.7" Rainier barrel, with the Noveske KX3 on it. Was a bit of an adventure getting it pinned and welded, but it is the most fun upper I have. Great at night with the fireball awesomeness. That's a lot of weight hung way out there
I love my 7.5" with KX3, that's what it was designed for, but anything much longer than that and I might as well hang a stainless suppressor on it You must not shoot with suppressors much, a 4 oz muzzle device is not heavy. Oh, I have, but for a muzzle device alone, 4oz is a good bit. |
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Posted: 9/4/2013 5:45:10 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh, I have, but for a muzzle device alone, 4oz is a good bit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
13.7" Rainier barrel, with the Noveske KX3 on it. Was a bit of an adventure getting it pinned and welded, but it is the most fun upper I have. Great at night with the fireball awesomeness. That's a lot of weight hung way out there
I love my 7.5" with KX3, that's what it was designed for, but anything much longer than that and I might as well hang a stainless suppressor on it You must not shoot with suppressors much, a 4 oz muzzle device is not heavy. Oh, I have, but for a muzzle device alone, 4oz is a good bit. I've come to the realization that less weight > less noise. If I'm in a stack covering a corner or entry point for 4 hours waiting for a word Id much rather have a Pig hanging off the end of my rifle instead of my NT4. |
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Posted: 9/4/2013 5:58:07 AM EDT
[#23]
This is my multi-gun rifle, btw.
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Posted: 9/4/2013 9:22:52 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is my multi-gun rifle, btw. <a href="http://s241.photobucket.com/user/devtucker/media/IMG_20130421_202559_725.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff206/devtucker/IMG_20130421_202559_725.jpg</a> That is awesome. Out of curiosity, why the light at the end and not the side? |
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Posted: 9/4/2013 9:26:59 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is awesome. Out of curiosity, why the light at the end and not the side? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is my multi-gun rifle, btw. <a href="http://s241.photobucket.com/user/devtucker/media/IMG_20130421_202559_725.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff206/devtucker/IMG_20130421_202559_725.jpg</a> That is awesome. Out of curiosity, why the light at the end and not the side? Heck of a lot less awkward to activate the lever with your thumb with the AFG. Push down for momentary and up for constant. It doesn't interfere much at all with sighting. It might look like a bit of a stretch, until you realize just how tiny the whole thing is. |
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Posted: 9/4/2013 9:55:03 AM EDT
[#26]
I knew there had to be a reason. That really looks like a ton of fun. I have to suck it up and get the stamp.
sam |
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Posted: 9/4/2013 4:02:00 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Heck of a lot less awkward to activate the lever with your thumb with the AFG. Push down for momentary and up for constant. It doesn't interfere much at all with sighting. It might look like a bit of a stretch, until you realize just how tiny the whole thing is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This is my multi-gun rifle, btw. <a href="http://s241.photobucket.com/user/devtucker/media/IMG_20130421_202559_725.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff206/devtucker/IMG_20130421_202559_725.jpg</a> That is awesome. Out of curiosity, why the light at the end and not the side? Heck of a lot less awkward to activate the lever with your thumb with the AFG. Push down for momentary and up for constant. It doesn't interfere much at all with sighting. It might look like a bit of a stretch, until you realize just how tiny the whole thing is. Keeps the shadow below line of sight as well, when I had my 13.7" w/kx3 I ran a x300 in the same position in front of a fixed DD front sight. Those to pieces went together like they were made for each other. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 5:38:13 PM EDT
[#29]
I love the look of the 13.5" NSR with a 13.7" barrel. might do another with a comp, just have to find one that is long enough that I like.
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Posted: 9/6/2013 10:32:48 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay, let's see if I can provide some clarity to the issue(s). I just recently completed a NOVESKE build during the last few months and am very happy with the way it turned out. I am running a 13.7" NOVESKE INFIDEL barrel with a B.E. MEYERS 249 series flash hider. I had TRAVIS at Riflegear in Orange County pin/weld this to the barrel for obvious legality reasons. Overall length is 16" on the dot. Of course, it all fits very nicely under the NOVESKE 13.5" NSR !! When the rifle was returned, I measured the way the ATF would with a stick, plug or guide rod down the barrel with the bolt closed. The pin/weld job was a thing of beauty and definitely first class job of worksmanship. Attached are the pictures for verification......Overall really happy with this combination in terms of fit, feel and balance. [ img]<a href="http://s1340.photobucket.com/user/Ch20brain/media/Mega%20Build/IMG_6907_zpsd6a1fbc9.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o740/Ch20brain/Mega%20Build/IMG_6907_zpsd6a1fbc9.jpg</a>[ /img] [ img]<a href="http://s1340.photobucket.com/user/Ch20brain/media/Mega%20Build/IMG_6909_zps93df68fd.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o740/Ch20brain/Mega%20Build/IMG_6909_zps93df68fd.jpg</a>[ /img] [ img]<a href="http://s1340.photobucket.com/user/Ch20brain/media/Mega%20Build/IMG_6910_zpse69d145d.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o740/Ch20brain/Mega%20Build/IMG_6910_zpse69d145d.jpg</a>[ /img] [ img]<a href="http://s1340.photobucket.com/user/Ch20brain/media/Mega%20Build/IMG_6911_zps43d0ad85.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o740/Ch20brain/Mega%20Build/IMG_6911_zps43d0ad85.jpg</a>[ /img] [ img]<a href="http://s1340.photobucket.com/user/Ch20brain/media/Mega%20Build/IMG_6912_zps73288838.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o740/Ch20brain/Mega%20Build/IMG_6912_zps73288838.jpg</a>[ /img] So a 13.7" barrel and the B.E. Meyers M249 flash hider will do the job and make it 16", thank you. |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 1:00:08 PM EDT
[#31]
They make a 5.5in flash hider that was more popular a couple of years ago.
You can pin it to a 10.5in barrel and make it 16in total length. If you check out the retro forums you will see it, it is an XM177 style flash hider. Found one online, I have never bought or heard of this site though, just a google search: http://vtsupply.com/guntec-usa-5-5-flash-hider-for-10-5-uppers-us-made-steel.html Looks like this: 
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Posted: 9/7/2013 1:27:27 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They make a 5.5in flash hider that was more popular a couple of years ago. You can pin it to a 10.5in barrel and make it 16in total length. If you check out the retro forums you will see it, it is an XM177 style flash hider. Found one online, I have never bought or heard of this site though, just a google search: http://vtsupply.com/guntec-usa-5-5-flash-hider-for-10-5-uppers-us-made-steel.html Looks like this: http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2010/06/13/38009_01_wilson_combat_10_5in_ar15a2_up_640.jpg In the OP he said he didn't want that. Ever think of having one of those fake cans pinned? |
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Posted: 9/7/2013 2:15:09 PM EDT
[#33]
I don't like anything fake including boobs and especially things on guns. I just don't want to go through the hassle of getting a stamp. You need the local law enforcement to sign it, I'm moving to a new place (New York to Texas)and I doubt he will do anything other than give me a dirty look.
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Posted: 9/9/2013 5:53:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Ch20brain,
I'm lovin' the look of your 13.7" Infidel/B.E. Myers set-up with the 13.5" NSR. If I recall correctly, the Infidel has a mid-length gas system. How does that run for you? Are you satisfied or do you feel a carbine gas system would be more reliable? What kind of buffer and spring are you running with it? What about the weight/balance? Many thanks and congrats on a great build. |
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Posted: 9/9/2013 11:22:21 PM EDT
[#35]
Hey Shoot1k !
Appreciate the kind words.....you are correct in that the INFIDEL is a mid length DI gas system. I am running a SPIKES TACTICAL T-2 buffer and WOLF XP carbine spring. Bolt carrier is a YOUNGS NATIONAL MATCH CHROME CARRIER. I feel it runs very well and cycles and ejects perfectly ! The recoil is mild but very controllable ! The accuracy of the NOVESKE barrel will far exceed my capabilities. I have been impressed with the nice groupings I can obtain with this combination of parts ! Don't notice a measurable difference to me versus the carbine gas system AR I also have. No reliability issues noted after approximately 500 rounds.....but I am shooting some decent Federal M855 ammo ! Haven't tried anything else yet. No PMC, Wolf! Tula or PRVi....... The weight and balance feel great....I really like the handling of this particular weapon and it def has become one of my favorites ! |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 4:28:02 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They make a 5.5in flash hider that was more popular a couple of years ago. You can pin it to a 10.5in barrel and make it 16in total length. If you check out the retro forums you will see it, it is an XM177 style flash hider. Found one online, I have never bought or heard of this site though, just a google search: http://vtsupply.com/guntec-usa-5-5-flash-hider-for-10-5-uppers-us-made-steel.html Looks like this: http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2010/06/13/38009_01_wilson_combat_10_5in_ar15a2_up_640.jpg My brother went with a reverse flash hider" to achieve the shorter barrel look with a 16" barrel. It looks like an 5.5" FH, but covers the barrel instead of extending it. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 6:50:17 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They make a 5.5in flash hider that was more popular a couple of years ago. You can pin it to a 10.5in barrel and make it 16in total length. If you check out the retro forums you will see it, it is an XM177 style flash hider. Found one online, I have never bought or heard of this site though, just a google search: http://vtsupply.com/guntec-usa-5-5-flash-hider-for-10-5-uppers-us-made-steel.html Looks like this: http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2010/06/13/38009_01_wilson_combat_10_5in_ar15a2_up_640.jpg wrong. 10.5 + 5.5 - thread overlap = less than 16 inches. you need about an 11.25" barrel. |
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