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Posted: 5/2/2009 8:23:35 AM EDT
I am new to this black rifle stuff. I did a search and could not find the exact problem I have.
I have a live round in the chamber ready to fire, I now want to clear the rifle without firing that round.
I can not pull the charging handle to clear it, it will not move. I remove the magazine, no help. I try pulling the charging handle on both safe and fire position. I can fire it and it extracts as it should. The only thing that I can not figure out is how to clear the chamber WITHOUT firing round.
Is this normal, am I not seeing the obvious, or what ??????
Please help and be specific (layman terms).
I have a Olyimpic Plinker Plus chambered in 5.56
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 8:26:13 AM EDT
[#1]
I know a guy who called me w/ this same thing, he just wasn't pulling the charging handle hard enough.  His rifle was brand new and pretty stiff.  I don't know how hard you have pulled it, but it could just be stiff.  Pulling the charging handle is how to clear a round, so if it isn't working, you probably need to take it to a gunsmith.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 8:28:02 AM EDT
[#2]
How could you have chambered it if the CH won't pull to the rear?  Drop the mag and pull harder?

Or separate the upper and lower and try again?  The whole bolt carrier group should come out, along with that chambered round.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 8:30:12 AM EDT
[#3]
Collapse the stock all the way.

Pull the latch on the charging handle

SLAM the butt on the ground, hard

Keep your face away from the muzzle

The idea is to let the mass of the carrier break the round free. You can also hold back the charging handle and drive the rifle back into your knee (like you wanted to punish the rifle and your knee). Just calm down and don't panc. It's not on a timer and wont go off unless you pull the trigger.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 8:31:32 AM EDT
[#4]
with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, pull the CH and at the same time smack the buttstock on the ground.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 8:35:58 AM EDT
[#5]
What type of ammo is stuck in there?

Is the bolt getting the extractor onto the case rim?

Is the extractor slipping off?

Were you firing the gun when this happened or just cycling rounds through the action?

Did you clean and lube the gun before firing or cycling rounds?

Is the case rim damaged.

I would dissasemble the upper from the lower and remove the bolt carrier group, (BCG), and see if you cannot get the round out that way.  If it is unfired the case should not have expanded and it should come out fairly easily.  If it does not.  Use a cleaning rod or a wooden dowel would be better to try to gently push it out. (this is with the upper dissasembled and the BCG removed.  Discard that round because you may have set that bullet back into the case and made it likely to increase the pressure of that round.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 9:55:38 AM EDT
[#6]
It happened when I was ready to stop shooting and did not want to use the rest of my mag. It cycles without a flaw while shooting.
I pulled the charging handle and bumped the stock on my deck railing, it came out just fine.
My rifle has had about 200 rounds through it, pretty new. What would cause this and what can I do to help precent this in the future.
I use a silicone saterated cloth for wiping down guns to clean the sizing lube off my cases. I do this to all my rifle round after loading and have never had problems before. I guess the AR is a different animal and I will have to get used to it and it to me. I love it, it's fun to shoot and easy to clean.
Looks cool to.
Thanks for all the responces,
Glenn
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 10:08:39 AM EDT
[#7]
You are shooting reloads?
Make sure you strictly follow the load data and use a full length sizing die.
Discard any heavily used or stress cracked brass.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 11:29:45 AM EDT
[#8]
probably steel cased
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 11:32:54 AM EDT
[#9]
Lube that baby up (bolt carrier group).
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 12:11:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 12:13:19 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
probably steel cased

Agreed.
saw it happen last weekend and posted about it too


why would it matter if it's steel or brass cased since the round the OP is referring to is UNFIRED?
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 12:19:09 PM EDT
[#12]
NM, re-read your reply.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 12:22:17 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
probably steel cased

Agreed.
saw it happen last weekend and posted about it too


why would it matter if it's steel or brass cased since the round the OP is referring to is UNFIRED?


Some steel case ammo is lacquer coated and can sometimes gum up a chamber or make the round fit a little more tight.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 12:30:26 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
probably steel cased

Agreed.
saw it happen last weekend and posted about it too


why would it matter if it's steel or brass cased since the round the OP is referring to is UNFIRED?


Some steel case ammo is lacquer coated and can sometimes gum up a chamber or make the round fit a little more tight.


tight enough that it can't be pulled out manually with the CH?
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 12:53:23 PM EDT
[#15]
my new MA upper is doing the same thing but functions fine when fireing. I figure itll loosen up after a few hundred rounds.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 1:04:18 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Lube that baby up (bolt carrier group).



this
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 1:12:31 PM EDT
[#17]
I took a .40 bore mop, put it on a steel cleaning rod, chucked it in a drill, loaded it with jeweler's rouge, and polished my chambers. Nothing sticks in there anymore.

Just food for thought.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 1:22:02 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:


tight enough that it can't be pulled out manually with the CH?


Yes, especially if it's a new rifle.  Many will recommend shooting a couple hundred rounds of quality brass cased ammo before shooting wolf, so as the break the chamber in.  

It they are reloads, they were probably not resized correctely.  The first batch of reloads I did for my AR were slightly off.  They would shoot and eject fine, but a live round would not extract.  Had to "mortor" it.  A slight adjustment to the resizing die fixed the problem.

Link Posted: 5/2/2009 2:06:03 PM EDT
[#19]
It is not steel case, Brass. Reloaded, sized, trimmed, polished case, Nosler ballistic tip 55 grain, with Hodgdon Varget powder (24.3 gr.), various primers (hard to get).
Some of this may not matter, just more information.
It is not a fired round (unfired).
It must be sticking, I will try to use a 40 cal. mop and drill to clean and polish the chamber.
Any other suggestions, I am learning
Thanks, Glenn
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 2:07:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:


tight enough that it can't be pulled out manually with the CH?


Yes, especially if it's a new rifle.  Many will recommend shooting a couple hundred rounds of quality brass cased ammo before shooting wolf, so as the break the chamber in.  

It they are reloads, they were probably not resized correctely.  The first batch of reloads I did for my AR were slightly off.  They would shoot and eject fine, but a live round would not extract.  Had to "mortor" it.  A slight adjustment to the resizing die fixed the problem.



What adjustment?
Glenn
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 2:18:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
It happened when I was ready to stop shooting and did not want to use the rest of my mag. It cycles without a flaw while shooting.
I pulled the charging handle and bumped the stock on my deck railing, it came out just fine. Thanks for all the responses,
Glenn


Is it possible since it's a new gun, that even a brass case could expand from the accumulated heat in the chamber enough to stick (he said he was finished shooting) if he had been going at it for a while?
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 2:24:10 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:

Any other suggestions, I am learning
Thanks, Glenn


I would get with another EXPERIENCED AR shooter before doing anything to the rifle

Since your new to the weapon, it might be technique more than anything, or it could be another simple problem..
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 2:34:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 3:04:26 PM EDT
[#24]
If you had a LIVE round chambered and you got it out with help from bumping it on your deck railing, you made a BIG mistake.  NEVER CHAMBER A LIVE ROUND IF YOU AREN'T GOING TO FIRE THE WEAPON.  That's dangerous.  If you were "function testing" the thing, you should have used a dummy round or a snap cap.

It sounds like you need to lube that rifle thoroughly (a little more for a brand new one), and then take it to the range and "ring it out."  With all the interacting machined surfaces involved, there's a certain amount of stiffness and rubbing that will occur in a new rifle.  Firing it is the BEST way to break it in.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 3:27:05 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
If you had a LIVE round chambered and you got it out with help from bumping it on your deck railing, you made a BIG mistake.  NEVER CHAMBER A LIVE ROUND IF YOU AREN'T GOING TO FIRE THE WEAPON.  That's dangerous.  If you were "function testing" the thing, you should have used a dummy round or a snap cap.

It sounds like you need to lube that rifle thoroughly (a little more for a brand new one), and then take it to the range and "ring it out."  With all the interacting machined surfaces involved, there's a certain amount of stiffness and rubbing that will occur in a new rifle.  Firing it is the BEST way to break it in.


I was function testing and your are right, I should have used a dummy round.
I am reloading right now and will make me up a couple of dummy rounds.
Thanks for the reminder and scoulding
I have a range in my backyard, I live in the country (middle of nowhere)
I was also a RSO at a local range and know better.
My Bad.
I did however use some safety skills, I bumped it on the bottom of my railing while pulling up on the charging handle. A little more aukward, but muzzle was pointing down.
No excuse, I shoould have used a dummy. I am the dummy.
Glenn
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 3:30:30 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
If you had a LIVE round chambered and you got it out with help from bumping it on your deck railing, you made a BIG mistake.  NEVER CHAMBER A LIVE ROUND IF YOU AREN'T GOING TO FIRE THE WEAPON.  That's dangerous.  If you were "function testing" the thing, you should have used a dummy round or a snap cap.

It sounds like you need to lube that rifle thoroughly (a little more for a brand new one), and then take it to the range and "ring it out."  With all the interacting machined surfaces involved, there's a certain amount of stiffness and rubbing that will occur in a new rifle.  Firing it is the BEST way to break it in.



I would have done the exact same thing had I not been able to get it out, except I would have done it at the range, however I would not have used live rounds for function. Go shoot the weapon.

Link Posted: 5/2/2009 3:33:04 PM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 3:33:39 PM EDT
[#28]
lube the crap out of the BCG handle cycle the empty rifle 500 times, clean and repeat
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 4:03:24 PM EDT
[#29]
Can I insert one reminder for the OP to practice all the commandments of safe gun handling please while dealing with this situation.

I hate to sound like a nanny, but it doesn't sound like he's got much experience with gun handling.

I also don't like the idea of slamming the buttstock on ANYTHING (as one reply recommended), and would like to remind you of the free floating firing pin.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 4:13:19 PM EDT
[#30]
if you have a range in your backyard why didnt you walk out back and just shoot the bullet out?
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 4:35:45 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
No excuse, I shoould have used a dummy. I am the dummy.
Glenn
From one Glenn to another, take this as a learning experience.  I always have some dummy rounds laying around in part because I'm a bit paranoid, and in part because I do NOT live out in the middle of nowhere.  I'm jealous that you have a range in your back yard, too.

Link Posted: 5/2/2009 4:43:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


tight enough that it can't be pulled out manually with the CH?


Yes, especially if it's a new rifle.  Many will recommend shooting a couple hundred rounds of quality brass cased ammo before shooting wolf, so as the break the chamber in.  

It they are reloads, they were probably not resized correctely.  The first batch of reloads I did for my AR were slightly off.  They would shoot and eject fine, but a live round would not extract.  Had to "mortor" it.  A slight adjustment to the resizing die fixed the problem.



What adjustment?
Glenn


I picked up a .223 case gauge, and adjusted the sizing die until the resized brass dropped into the case guage correctly.  

Link Posted: 5/2/2009 4:49:13 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Collapse the stock all the way.

Pull the latch on the charging handle

SLAM the butt on the ground, hard

Keep your face away from the muzzle

The idea is to let the mass of the carrier break the round free. You can also hold back the charging handle and drive the rifle back into your knee (like you wanted to punish the rifle and your knee). Just calm down and don't panc. It's not on a timer and wont go off unless you pull the trigger.


This.  Its how the US training manual says to do it.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 4:55:00 PM EDT
[#34]
If the cartridge that is 'stuck' is a reload, then there is a good chance it was not sized properly.  I've had a similar problem to what is being described here.   When I first encountered the problem, I also thought it was due to me not cleaning the case lube off (Hornady One Shot).  Turns out, I have an RCBS die that would not size the brass down enough for some of my chambers, even with it all the way into the press.  The result was that the rounds would chamber, and the gun would cycle when fired, but manual cycling required the method mentioned earlier in this thread (butt strike to the ground).  You really need to make sure you're getting the brass sized right in addition to looking for issues with the gun.  It doesn't take much error to make the cartridge stick enough that hand cycling is difficult to impossible.  My opinion is that more lube or break-in likely is not a fix for this problem, and I'm assuming also that the chamber is clean.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 5:02:57 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


tight enough that it can't be pulled out manually with the CH?


Yes, especially if it's a new rifle.  Many will recommend shooting a couple hundred rounds of quality brass cased ammo before shooting wolf, so as the break the chamber in.  

It they are reloads, they were probably not resized correctely.  The first batch of reloads I did for my AR were slightly off.  They would shoot and eject fine, but a live round would not extract.  Had to "mortor" it.  A slight adjustment to the resizing die fixed the problem.



What adjustment?
Glenn


I don't think I saw an answer to your question, so...
The adjustment would likely be turning the sizing die into the press a bit more (assuming that the brass is not being size down enough).  But, realize there is a limit to this.  See my above post...I had a die that wouldn't resize enough even with it turned in as far as would allow operation of the press.  At some point, there's just no more room and you can't fully cycle the press due to the die physically stopping it.  I now use a Wilson case gauge to help verify proper sizing, along with testing the sized brass in a couple of my guns.

ETA:  You could potentially be sizing down the brass too much and resulting in the cases starting to buckle.  You might want to venture into the reloading forum if you're not really sure what the problem is, if it turns out that your reloads are the root of the problem.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 5:25:56 PM EDT
[#36]
Reading this whole tread at once, I would note the following:

*If you are shooting reloads in a gas gun, full length resizing means FULL LENGTH RESIZING and nothing less.  The shellholder has to meet the bottom of the die under pressure as the handle goes past top dead center while sizing which takes all the spring out of the press.  This is a lot more sizing than the screw the die down onto the shellholder.  Read your manual that came with the dies.

*Lube the bolt and bolt carrier like your life depended on it.  The key is the caming surfaces in the bolt carrier.  I use the best grease I can find on both sides, the locking cam and the unlocking cam.  When the bolt carrier moves, the pin slides along easily and the bolt rotates easily.

*Every time I clean the rifle, I use a GI chamber and locking lug brush on one of those dedicated short handles with a guide.  I scrub the Hello out of the chamber and the locking lug area.  Then I clean up the mess with a corresponding chamber and locking lug mop.  Followed by an oiler mop of the same configuration to make sure all is slick.

*Mostly, I remain amazed that fellows will buy $1000-$2000 rifles and expect them to work with whatever crap ammo that fits into a magazine.  Feed'em clean quality ammo and this sort of thing does not happen until firing has made the rifle so hot you cannot hold it.  Which does not happen in civilian life.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 5:43:01 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
*Mostly, I remain amazed that fellows will buy $1000-$2000 rifles and expect them to work with whatever crap ammo that fits into a magazine.  Feed'em clean quality ammo and this sort of thing does not happen until firing has made the rifle so hot you cannot hold it.  Which does not happen in civilian life.


Especially at todays prices.



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