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4/22/2019 5:32:20 PM
Posted: 10/8/2004 8:55:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 8:57:34 PM EDT by tax_monster]
Ok guys, I've been playing around with this idea for a little while and want some input. Let's say the scenario calls for the lightest possible AR because zombies are after me and since I can carry only so much weight, I want to reserve as much capacity as possible for ammo.

I think the place to start is the CavArms lower with the integrated stock since it's got to be much lighter than any metal lower/stock combo out there. I'm thinking flat top configuration with flip up sights, and I want a quad rail front handguard in case I want to attach stuff to it.

Should the barrel be 14.5" with a permanently attached flashhider or a 16" barrel with FH to get the best reliability and zombie kill power? I don't think the HBAR style barrel will work, but how much difference is there between the M4 style barrels and the skinny "pencil" barrel?

I don't know what a legitimate weight target would be. 3 lbs? 5 lbs? 7 lbs? Keep in mind that I do want to actually build this from commercially available parts, but don't want to sacrifice quality for light weight. I also don't want to spend $2000 doing it. I just think it would be neat to have a really, really light AR.

So, help me out and keep me safe from zombies and give me your ideas and input.
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 9:13:06 PM EDT
Why not start with a Bushmaster carbon lower?
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 9:23:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2004 9:23:48 PM EDT by Ridge]
A legitimate weight target for a lightweight rifle would be 5lbs.

This could easily be done with a BM 16" superlight barrel

flattop upper and lightweight rear sight (ARMs 40L, TROY, YHM lowprofile)

Cav arms lower.

The skinny pencil barrels are much lighter than most and are the only way to go for a lightweight build.

Link Posted: 10/8/2004 9:23:10 PM EDT
This is a prety light setup:

Vulcan Arms Carbon lower, 4 position telestock, Model 1 Sales superlight barrel and an A1 slickside (no FA, deflector) upper. I replaced the rear sight with an A2 aperature:

Link Posted: 10/8/2004 9:28:19 PM EDT
Just reread your post, and the lightest quad railed handguard (Daniel Defense 7.0) will add 1.5 oz more than than the stock carbine handguards.

Carbine handguard with all mounting hardware (~7.0 oz)
DD 7.0 (8.5 oz with aluminum barrel nut and, I believe, no panels).
Link Posted: 10/8/2004 9:29:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bvmjethead:
Why not start with a Bushmaster carbon lower?



I'm not too familar with those. How do they compare to the Cav Arms?
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 2:33:01 AM EDT
i just built an ar with the bushmaster superlight barrel (threaded post ban) cause i had it laying around. using the yhm lightweight rifle length ff tube and all yhm buis (front and rear) and i gotta tell you this thing is very light almost like a toy.

no actual weight yet but it is light!

stock is ace shorty stock and rra upper and mega lower
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 2:36:29 AM EDT
Carbon fiber free float front. You dont need a rail to hang more weight on the rifle. On a carbine, with will actually reduce the weight of the rifle compared to clamshell handguards.

Dont forget a lightweight carrier too.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 5:18:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Carbon fiber free float front. You dont need a rail to hang more weight on the rifle. On a carbine, with will actually reduce the weight of the rifle compared to clamshell handguards.

Dont forget a lightweight carrier too.



Agree, you don't need the rails if you want to go light. The pencil barrel would be the lightest barrel you could get and if you go with a carbon receiver, please do not go with Vulcan/Hesse... Go with CavArms or Bushmaster. I have a KAC 300M BUIS on my rifle and it is great... it also weighs nothing. If you do decide to go with a rail and mount... lets say, a light... I think that Laser Devices weaponslight is as light as you can go if I am not mistaken.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 5:27:58 AM EDT
Stock Carbon-15?

And a few Beta-C mags
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 6:37:53 AM EDT
5lbs 8ozs without going plastic, added an A2 aperture and BM extended adjustment knob. Not that there is anything wrong with plastic, I just prefer old fashioned aluminum.

Link Posted: 10/9/2004 7:21:02 AM EDT
ill be building a bushmaster superlight a3 upper with prolly a pri front and arms 40l back on a pre 94 bushy lower shortly .. i think this is the most reliable ' superlight ar15' that one can make .. i WILL NOT go plastic ..
it will be about 2 weeks from now when im done .. ill post pics and details of the project ..
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 9:49:23 AM EDT
Which is lighter...4 pos telestock, or CavArms A-1 length stock?
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 9:53:36 AM EDT
"shoot it man, shoot it in the head." - Dawn of the Dead (original one)
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 10:21:30 AM EDT
Start with a complete Cav Arms MkII lower (the coming SEBR buy for $175 shipped team member price should work nicely), add a flattop upper and bolt carrier gorup of your choice, fit in a mid-length 16" barrel currently being marketed here (turned by ADCO to .625 from chamber to muzzle, minus necessary steps), then add a PRI midlength carbon fiber free float tube. Finish with the lightweight sights of your choice.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 10:33:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By StormSurge:
Which is lighter...4 pos telestock, or CavArms A-1 length stock?



My complete aluminum lower with 4 pos stock was 1.98lbs

The Cav lower is 1.67 lbs.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 1:16:34 PM EDT
I have an olympic FAR-15 that is 4.92 pounds unloaded. Very leight weight and also surprisingly accurate.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 8:46:43 PM EDT


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By StormSurge:
Which is lighter...4 pos telestock, or CavArms A-1 length stock?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




My complete aluminum lower with 4 pos stock was 1.98lbs

The Cav lower is 1.67 lbs.



No, I mean an aluminum lower with C-1 buttstock...
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 8:49:15 PM EDT
As far as I know the Cavarms lower is lighter than any lower with any buttstock, with possibly the exception of carbon lowers.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 9:01:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 9:02:27 PM EDT by Ridge]

Originally Posted By StormSurge:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By StormSurge:
Which is lighter...4 pos telestock, or CavArms A-1 length stock?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




My complete aluminum lower with 4 pos stock was 1.98lbs

The Cav lower is 1.67 lbs.



No, I mean an aluminum lower with C-1 buttstock...



Sorry, I don't know the wieght of that, but I do know that the C1 will be significantly heavier than the 4-pos stock because the Cav C1 stock uses the heavier/longer rifle buffer and spring (the stock itself might be very light but the buffer makes a big diff).
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 9:15:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bvmjethead:
Why not start with a Bushmaster carbon lower?



Dude Cav lowers are CERTIFIED for use against Zombies, DUHH!!
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 9:40:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 9:41:53 PM EDT by Marco]
Olympic FAR 15 "Featherweight" Whatever put together this model puts it at 4.92 lbs uh yeah, I second that
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 9:45:20 PM EDT
Forgot to mention the BM Lady is 3.9lbs
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 9:45:51 PM EDT
Don't forget...and this is VERY IMPORTANT...you have to shoot zombies in the head. Personally, I would buy a lower and re-register it as a SBR, and put an 11.5" upper on it. If you think the zombies may come after you indoors, you may want to buy a silencer as well.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 4:59:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jbombelli:
Don't forget...and this is VERY IMPORTANT...you have to shoot zombies in the head. Personally, I would buy a lower and re-register it as a SBR, and put an 11.5" upper on it. If you think the zombies may come after you indoors, you may want to buy a silencer as well.



Remember that zombies don't like light either so you need a surefire to go on it too.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 11:54:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DM1975:

Originally Posted By jbombelli:
Don't forget...and this is VERY IMPORTANT...you have to shoot zombies in the head. Personally, I would buy a lower and re-register it as a SBR, and put an 11.5" upper on it. If you think the zombies may come after you indoors, you may want to buy a silencer as well.



Remember that zombies don't like light either so you need a surefire to go on it too.



Right! That's one of the reasons I want a rail ( actually 4) on the front end. I've looked at the Bushy Carbon series and decided I just don't like the way they look, and I'm not certain they use standard AR parts. I do like the 3.9 lb weight of the Bushy Carbon Lady model though, but I think they are using a carbon fiber upper as well.

I'm also glad TheFNG was able to verify that the CavArms is Zombie certified, that certainly makes me feel better about going with CavArms. I want to use the deal they're putting together for the 2004 SEBR for the base of this project.

I don't think I want to go the SBR route - it's not worth the $200 to me. If I want a short barrel, I'll just stick it on my M16, no extra tax due.

Does anyone make a carbon-type upper besides bushmaster? Or would the Bushy upper fit on a CavArms lower? I specifically don't like the Bushy stock and big goofy looking forearm. Also, I checked their website and it doesn't look like they sell the carbon series as parts, just full rifles.

I now feel much better in my preparations towards fending off the impending zombie attack. Further suggestions welcomed!
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 12:07:42 PM EDT
C'mon, you're not fooling anyone! We all know if it were a true zombie attack you'd have the Uzi in one hand and the Sterling in another with the Shrike upper equipped -16 slung over your back for fending off the mass attacks!
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 12:22:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Corporal_Chaos:
C'mon, you're not fooling anyone! We all know if it were a true zombie attack you'd have the Uzi in one hand and the Sterling in another with the Shrike upper equipped -16 slung over your back for fending off the mass attacks!



I see you've been looking into my safe. Yes, the Uzi and Sterling would be at the forefront here, but I've only got maybe 3 dozen mags between the two (a mere 900 rounds of ammo or so), and the Shrike is vaporware, so I need the AR zombie gun as a backup.

I wonder if I can get the gun lighter than a fully loaded beta mag?

When it comes to preparing for zombies, I'm hardcore.
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 9:31:14 PM EDT
Ya know.... if you had the Bushy super-light barrel shortened to 14.5", that's gonna shave off a couple more ounces... and all the way out on the end too, where leverage makes it feel like even more!

That, plus I just HATE the 16" carbine barrel... But then, it's YOUR zombie rifle, ain't it?

Mine's a 16" chrome lined mid-length from ADCO (skinny profile under the HG) with a DD forend...

I gotta rent Dawn of the Dead this weekend.
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 10:10:06 PM EDT
BUSHMASTER

h/w if you build your own: MEGA (other tier 1 brands too) lower; 14.5 lightweight m-4 bbl (chromelined of course!), prem. phantom fh
A3 w/ buis sights, CAR stock and handguards, reg USGI sling and mags

personally, i'd go w/ an m4 stock, reg m-4 or HBAR CAR bbl in 16 in for more velocity, cause the extra weight dont bother me, just more gun if i got to use it to beat the mess out of a zombie when i run out of ammo!
Link Posted: 11/1/2004 10:26:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/2/2004 1:25:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2004 1:27:37 AM EDT by tax_monster]
That's a nice looking gun. I think I'm going to stick with a railed fore end though because I want the option of attaching a light, vertical grip and maybe the occasional bipod.

What are you thinking about getting for a new light? I've had my eye on the Streamlight M3X which looks like it will be pretty bright and only weigh about 4 oz.

I'm about 90% sure I'll go with the CavArms lower, but have also thought of getting a lightweight adjustable stock like you have and a carbon-fiber lower.

I've even looked into buying a carbon fiber barrel to save a pound or so, but I think they cost about $600, which would be pretty hard to justify.

Edit to add: Where do you get the "half moon" shaved Colt bolt carrier? What price?
Link Posted: 11/2/2004 1:51:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fq1234:
5lbs 8ozs without going plastic, added an A2 aperture and BM extended adjustment knob. Not that there is anything wrong with plastic, I just prefer old fashioned aluminum.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v367/fq1234/DSC02512.jpg



love everything about your rifle besides the grip... and thats just personal flavor... awesome rifle..
Link Posted: 11/2/2004 1:53:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TwAeAyIYwcao*Q5ALVOQJ6dsSB0ctTYy56QEkJrjaWyk­Vv7D9mRDrbifXtvFPGSl6dokic3WI9IKmuGBgi7dGdgm4­oog7kdzkhLg87lqGYW3!ppwLmJj!A/Picture%20048.jpg?dc=4675495169848163004

Its just over 5 lbs and thats with the optic and surefire (both for the zombies of course). The Hiperform carbon fiber FF tube has a lightweight aluminum barrel but which is much lighter than the steel barrel nut on a standard gun. I used the "half moon" shaved Colt bolt carrier (lighter than regular carriers), an A1 upper without a brass deflector (lighter than A2), Colt 4 pos stock (lightest stock I have found), Comp ACOG (lightest of the good magnified or unmagnified optics), I punched out the front sling swivel and will replace the 660 Surefire with a lighter scout model very soon.



now thats a rifle... awesome job...
Link Posted: 11/2/2004 7:01:50 AM EDT
Well a zombie gun thread ,ok I'll play.


Zombie gun- Ok barrel length doesn't need to be that long. Zombies can be taken out with a shot to the dome, while a nice long fragmentation range would be nice, it's not needed as long as the bullet does enough damage to the brain it will be ok. If you want to go the NFA route: So barrel length i'd say should be in the 10.5-11.5inch range. If you don't wnat to SBR it, than go with a 14.5 with a pem phantom 5C2 with the jaged front(impact weapon) if things get to close, jab it(the zombie) in the eye with the FS. Again if yer in a NFA friendly state, think supressor(can) because as you shoot yer making a shit load of noise and zombies are drawn to noise. At least with a supressor they won't be able to figure out where that noise is comming from which can be a great help to you. Thats where the short 10.5 or 11.5in barrel comes in hand because than even with a supressor your still only around 16in total on the length of the barrel.
As to the barrel conture, if you want light weight there is only one way to go, a pencil barrel. ThoughI think I'd be more inclined for at least an M4 profile barrel as it would stand up a bit better to all the shooting, and lets face it with all the zombies running around you will be shooting alot which means a hot barrel real quick.

IF you want a railed HG, go with a YHM lightweight one I've got one on one of my guns and it's lovely. I would go with a fixed BUIS and a fixed front sight. IF you want to go with a folding one fine, but when those zombies are close as shit and murphy takes over running yer redot, are you going to have time to flip up those sights to use them??? probably not. At least a fixed front. Or if you go with a folder to save on that itty little bit of weight, get one that locks open, same with the rear, and leave them in the open position and locked open. Do to the CQB nature of zombie killing and the speed at which this new breed of zombies move at, the ass you save may be yer own.

If you have a dependable* BetaC mag, I'd run that as the first mag in the gun simply because of the extra high capacity, sure it adds weight at first but it's more ammo in one place at one time. and than pack as many 30rd mags as possible.

*Note this comment is based on my limited experiance with beta mags, I've only dumpped mine twice since I got it on 10-30 and both time it ran 100% and since he said he wanted a lightweight gun so he could carry more ammo. Also since zombies are a totaly hypothetical and movie only foe, well the beta should always work since it's only make believe.
Link Posted: 11/2/2004 7:19:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By StormSurge:
Which is lighter...4 pos telestock, or CavArms A-1 length stock?


Telestock.

The buffer & receiver extension are lighter than the rifle lengh versions.

BTW if all you 'lightweight' builders are interested in some HARD DATA rather than guess head over to The Maryland AR-15 Shooters Site

On this page we have not only a table with some of the data (think of it as an appetizer), but there is a link to our Excel spreadsheet with the weights for all kind of AR parts & accessories.

The 2nd page is a worksheet to help you 'assemble' your design and determine it's weight.

Handguards & Stocks are normalized (their weight is for the 'system') so you can directly compare different systems.
Link Posted: 11/2/2004 10:52:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/2/2004 10:59:59 AM EDT
At what point does weight shedding end up producing recoil? Just built a fairly lightweight carbine myself...weighs in at 6# 11.9oz.



Bushy lower, A1 buttstock, 16" BM chrome barrel w/phantom flash hider - turned down and fluted, flattop receiver, EOTech 512, flip up sights.

Link Posted: 11/2/2004 11:00:45 AM EDT
Surefire also makes a Nitrolon(sp) synthetic flashlight.the G2.might shave off .04 oz with that.
Link Posted: 11/2/2004 11:01:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/2/2004 11:12:47 AM EDT
What type of zombie attacks are we talking about here? Are they the fast, running, new remake "Dawn of the Dead" zombies, or the slow moving early era "Night of the Living Dead" zombies? Maybe they are the not quit zombie "28 days Later" zombies (fast, but do not seem to be of the undead catagory due to the fact that they can starve to death.) Zombies zombies zombies. George W. Bushmaster. If kerry gets elected then Im going to throw my medals and ribbons over the fence of the white house. Since im active duty im not allowed to protest. Ill consider it a returned present.
Link Posted: 11/2/2004 5:43:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/2/2004 6:01:23 PM EDT
Bushmaster carbon model#4,it takes all standard AR assemblies.With a 14.5 pencil barrel and permanent phantom that should be the lightest you can go.
Link Posted: 11/2/2004 7:07:23 PM EDT
I knew I wasn't the only one expecting zombies! I have an RRA 16 inch with an Aimpoint on the carry handle. They won't even get close.
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