Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/5/2005 6:55:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2005 7:00:49 AM EDT by hardcorps1775]
i want to change some of the markings on my m4gery and was told i should get a "letter of variance" from the atf. i've never done one before and would like to feed off your vast knowledge! will this work? what should i add or leave out?

thanks for any assist, hombres!


U.S. Department of Justice
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
Washington Field Division (Technical Branch)
607 14th Street, NW
Suite 620
Washington, DC 20005

Dear Sirs,

After checking your FAQ site I have a question I couldn't find a definitive answer for and I'm hoping you can provide a little enlightenment.

Markings on Firearms. What are the rules and regs pertaining to these? I understand that altering or removing serial numbers is strictly a no-no but what about other markings?

Specifically, I have a Bushmaster semiauto version of the M4 carbine currently being used by our forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. I would like to make the following modifications on the receiver:

a. Add "PROPERTY OF U.S. GOVT."
b. Change "MODEL XM-...." to "M4A1 CARBINE"
c. Change "CAL. .223-5.56 MM" to "CAL. 5.56 MM"
d. Remove manufacturer's goofy coiled snake trademark (although the name and address would
not be touched)

Do I need a Letter of Variance to do this? If so, how can I obtain one?

Thank you for your time and assistance!

Link Posted: 10/5/2005 6:57:15 AM EDT
I have never done one, but the letter itself looks good to me.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 7:04:47 AM EDT
let us know what you find out.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 9:08:46 AM EDT
damn, no one's ever requested one?

guess i will just send it out as is. will post the results, i reckon.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 9:13:23 AM EDT
Damn it would be easier to get a custom lower from Superior arms. Superior Arms
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 9:57:38 AM EDT
I just wrote one. YOU must outline the order that the work is to be done. Please email me and I will send you a copy. Still waiting on mine to be approved, but it might help you. Takes 3-4 months to get an answer back.

IM LIKEMOPAR on the board. He does this kind of work all of the time and should be able to help you.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 10:02:58 AM EDT
By the way, there is no rules against changing manufacturers markings on title I guns (except the serial number). However if you send it to an FFL to do the work, there are rules for him to ensure the integrity of the manufacturing markings, and to keep the chain of posession intact by recording the info in his bound book. So this is why most FFL's wil require a variance. It officially changes the weapon description and he can retain it on file in case the weapon is ever traced by ATF.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 10:37:41 AM EDT
I saw a M4 at the fun show a couple of weeks ago, SBR required markings were on the trigger guard, the guy showed me a letter from the ATF saying it was ok, just in case I would get a letter to protect yo ass.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 8:43:10 PM EDT
tagged. post response please.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 8:57:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2005 9:23:16 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By brian427cobra:
I saw a M4 at the fun show a couple of weeks ago, SBR required markings were on the trigger guard, the guy showed me a letter from the ATF saying it was ok, just in case I would get a letter to protect yo ass.




On the trigger guard??

You don't mean the removable piece with the roll pins, do you? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the term "trigger guard"
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:19:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By brian427cobra:
I saw a M4 at the fun show a couple of weeks ago, SBR required markings were on the trigger guard, the guy showed me a letter from the ATF saying it was ok, just in case I would get a letter to protect yo ass.




On the trigger guard??

You don't mean the removable piece with the roll pins, do you? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the term "trigger guard"



+1
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:35:47 AM EDT
Tagged for more info.

Link Posted: 10/6/2005 7:34:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2005 7:35:52 AM EDT by rickinvegas]
IMO your letter, as written, will not accomplish anything. You have included a lot of unneeded information. The person reading your letter will see phrases like "version of the M4 carbine currently being used by our forces in Iraq and Afghanistan" and instantly go into CYA mode and give you a lecture about making illegal machine guns etc. You will not get a useful response.

You are also, in effect, asking for an opinion from a "cop". Frankly, I don't care what "opinions" a cop has. I care about the law. That would be my question......what is the law?

Quick and dirty. This would be the crux of my letter..............


Dear Sir,

I presently own a legally purchased AR-15 type receiver manufactured by Bushmaster Firearms. I am aware of the requirement, found in 18 USC Sec. 922(k), that prohibits the manufacturer's serial number from being removed, obliterated, or altered.

Assuming that the serial number and manufacturer information as applied by the manufacturer reamains intact, is there any law that prohibits me from adding (engraving) additional text and/or removing text (other than the serial number) or artwork (company logo)?

Thank you for your time. I look forward to your prompt response.

Sincerely,

hardcorps1775



I would probably polish this up a bit but that would be my letter. Ask a question about the LAW. The ATF doesn't need to know about what I'm going to write or what kind of upper I'm going to pin on the receiver.

With all that said.......the answer to your question is there is no law prohibiting what you want to do. If I were to do what you described, I would do it without feeling the need to get the ATF's "permission". In fact, I have done things similar on receivers. Just leave the serial number alone and you are good to go.

You asked for opinions.........
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 10:55:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:
IMO your letter, as written, will not accomplish anything. You have included a lot of unneeded information. The person reading your letter will see phrases like "version of the M4 carbine currently being used by our forces in Iraq and Afghanistan" and instantly go into CYA mode and give you a lecture about making illegal machine guns etc. You will not get a useful response.

You are also, in effect, asking for an opinion from a "cop". Frankly, I don't care what "opinions" a cop has. I care about the law. That would be my question......what is the law?

Quick and dirty. This would be the crux of my letter..............


Dear Sir,

I presently own a legally purchased AR-15 type receiver manufactured by Bushmaster Firearms. I am aware of the requirement, found in 18 USC Sec. 922(k), that prohibits the manufacturer's serial number from being removed, obliterated, or altered.

Assuming that the serial number and manufacturer information as applied by the manufacturer reamains intact, is there any law that prohibits me from adding (engraving) additional text and/or removing text (other than the serial number) or artwork (company logo)?

Thank you for your time. I look forward to your prompt response.

Sincerely,

hardcorps1775



I would probably polish this up a bit but that would be my letter. Ask a question about the LAW. The ATF doesn't need to know about what I'm going to write or what kind of upper I'm going to pin on the receiver.

With all that said.......the answer to your question is there is no law prohibiting what you want to do. If I were to do what you described, I would do it without feeling the need to get the ATF's "permission". In fact, I have done things similar on receivers. Just leave the serial number alone and you are good to go.

You asked for opinions.........



+1
Top Top