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Posted: 9/19/2005 9:29:13 AM EDT
Can you please post some pics of your SIR systems, i am planning on using one for my next "M4gery" build, and cant find too many clear pics and i havent seen a pic thread for this yet, so post away
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:42:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 9:44:21 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
Old pic from Pete at Legal Tranfers




Mike

ps - believe this is a #45 M, (mine is the #45 C version)
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:52:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 9:54:10 AM EDT by MasterC]
Thx for that pic, i believe i will be using the #50C or the #45C. Though i may use the military version/s.

Edit: More pics
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:55:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 9:56:34 AM EDT by KevinB]
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:07:55 AM EDT
SIR = gross
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:30:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AlanC556:
SIR = gross





your post= banned!

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:31:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 10:32:01 AM EDT by eklikwhoa]


Link Posted: 9/19/2005 11:21:57 AM EDT
Mine is the 58M Mod (goes around the front sight) and lefty (and I love it)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Bulldogxj/Ar15022.jpg
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 1:01:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AlanC556:
SIR = gross



Agreed.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 2:56:36 PM EDT
45M on my SBR.



Danny
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:14:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bulldogxj:
Mine is the 58M Mod


SIRS are for kids!

One carbine class is all it took, and the SIR was for sale. That one now has a simple Larue 7.0.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:23:25 PM EDT
They are just too much metal.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:59:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 7:05:22 PM EDT by new-arguy]
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:14:25 PM EDT
S.I.R systems are like Harley-Davidson Motorcycles, if you have to ask - you wouldn't understand anyway ...
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:27:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kisara:

Originally Posted By Bulldogxj:
Mine is the 58M Mod


SIRS are for kids!
tinyurl.com/dgep4
One carbine class is all it took, and the SIR was for sale. That one now has a simple Larue 7.0.



excellent job teaching them to keep the booger hook off the bang switch.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:31:43 PM EDT





Chris
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:36:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CitySlicker:

Originally Posted By AlanC556:
SIR = gross



Agreed.



Excellent contributions to the discussion.


Chris
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:40:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 7:46:08 PM EDT by Ridley]
MasterC, you will find alot of pansies around here that feel the extra few ounces the SIR adds is too much for their couch commando 10" biceps to handle. For those of us that don't have floral patterns imprinted on our asses, the weight difference is worth having the sturdiest rail system in the business. Think ahead of what accesories you want to get, and buy your SIR accordingly. I personally like the "M" versions better, as it does away with the dated delta ring shizzod. There's more sales pitch BS on this site than any i have seen, and as usual, the truth gets buried beneath it. In reality, it's hard to find a replacement for the SIR, with a continuous top rail, free floated, no tools/no front sight disassembly needed install. The ONLY half legitamate beef anyone can really bring up with the SIR, is that eotechs won't cowitness if you like to run the eo over the receiver, but like most things around here, the need to cowitness is GREATLY exagerrated.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 8:08:03 PM EDT
I jumped on this thread to see how long it would take for someone to ridicule the SIR. It only took 5 posts. Thats probably not a record.

I had one SIR and liked it but found others I liked more so I sold it off. The RASII came out shortly after and I swapped for that. I dont care so much about cowitness but I do like to at least see my irons when I flip em.

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:32:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ridley:
The ONLY half legitamate beef anyone can really bring up with the SIR, is that eotechs won't cowitness


What about the fact that the plastic lower half flexes right/left with a VFG (or that some VFG's won't even fit the SIR rail)? What about the fact its so wide (even the slimline models) your thumb can't hit the back of a SureFire button? What about the fact that its machined so you can only fit an ARMS buis on it (at least when I owned one)? What about the high cost compared to others?
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:41:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 9:41:51 PM EDT by BSheppard]
The lower part is plastic?
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:18:29 PM EDT
I run a m900a, i don't really notice any flexing issue whatsoever. Sure, if you torque on it hard as hell, it moves a tad, but it also isolates the flex away from the top rail which(in most cases) has your optics and laser mounted and is vital to stay rock solid. Really, a non issue. As for the TD grip not fitting, lol, cmon. It's a damn plastic grip, file it. It fits fine with a little tlc. Mount an aimpoint out on the front, and drop it from about 20 feet a dozen or so times. Do the same with any other rail and see which one holds zero better. The arms with the barrel nut mount and swan sleeve, or one that only mounts onto a barrel nut with no other bracing? I would put my $$$ on the SIR any day

I like the arms buis just fine as well. it's a buis. There's not much one does better than any other. The 40lsp is great, and streamlines in perfectly. Again, non issue.

Too wide? I wouldn't know as i don't have girly hands, and i have the m900a so it's a mute point. My wife had no issues using it(45M) before the m900a was on there, so i doubt this is a huge beef, especially since almost everyone runs a vfg these days anyways. I have a hard time believing the slimline SIR's are too wide for anyone, but hey, I'll take yout word for it.

Price? Sure it's expensive. So are all the good rails, and in that regard it's not so far out there. Sure, it's not perfect, no rail is, and it's not for everyone. However, imo, it has alot more positives than negatives, more so than most any forend out there in my case. To simply dismiss SIR's as yesterdays news is foolishness, mostly caused by all the BS sales pitching around here.

As for me, the SIR will not be leaving my SHTF carbine, period. Would i consider another rail for my next build? Sure, but it won't be the weapon I trust my life too when things get ugly. YMMV, and i'm sure the sheeple wagon will have room for one more when you are ready to hop on and follow the vendors around on bent knees

Hell, i wouldn't have said anything of the SIR trolls with buyers remorse would not have chimed in and trashed this guys thread. He wants to see SIRs, got nothing to contribute, STFU
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:28:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:33:01 PM EDT
The BUSHy Twins!




Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:41:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:
Which parts are plastic on the S.I.R.? Anyone have a pic with the plastic vs. metal parts labeled?

Also, it's basically a FF tube, isn't it? How does it attach to your upper?



Yes, the SIRs are free float.

This is the #51, for the A2 receiver. It attaches to the top of the carry handle and around the barrel nut.

The other SIR's for the A3's have a straightened rail that extends along the top of the receiver, the dreaded "raised rail".

The top half of the #51.



Notice the clamp that secures to the barrel nut, on the bottom right.



This is looking at the rear of the upper half, towards the front.



The outside of the lower polymer portion.



The inside of the lower polymer portion.




Chris
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:43:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 10:47:52 PM EDT by Ridley]
See the grey area of the SIR that comes back over the upper receiver in the above pics? That clamps onto the pic rail of the upper receiver, so you have a TRUE continous upper rail, not one with a joint prone to streeses in the middle. The plastic portion is the lower black portion of the sir. The reason the SIR is heavy, is because the grey area you see, is built like a brick shithouse. The plastic portion is very stury as well. I personally have never seen one broken, but i'm sure someone somewhere has managed to do it. I believe the idea of the plastic, was to deter heat from the shooters hand during rapid fire. For this, it keeps heat away from the shooters hand much better than aluminum when a VFG is not used


Beat me to it, lol
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:53:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 11:03:12 PM EDT
I feel that my LaRue 7.0 is a much better rail system. The SIR is just too bulky.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 11:07:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:
Chris, thanks for the great pics!



You're welcome!


One other question (I'll probably have more): ARMS #59 CV vs. MV?

I know the MV one requires removal of the delta ring and handguard retaining ring. What are the advantages or disadvantages of either one?

My plan is getting pricey!



Since I only have Civilian SIRs, my SWAG would be that you are not going to notice a difference in rigidity between the Civilian and Military versions, since they both use the yoke around the barrel nut.

The big plus for me concerning the Civilian version is the installation is about the same as for regular handguards, only you have nuts & bolts to tighten.


Chris
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 3:51:52 AM EDT
the "c" version requires close to zero work to install and have a free floated bbl.


this is the only version i had since those were the ones available to me.

imo

the c is the easiest though cutting off the d-ring isnt much work and the m version looks the cleanest


Link Posted: 9/20/2005 4:06:47 AM EDT
Here's my #50SC on a M4A1. Haven't had any problems with it and its on its second deployment to the sandbox. EOTech is mount forward and the #40L is cowitnessed. The advantage for me with the forward mounting is that I can wear NVGs on my helmet and see thru the EOTech on NV (green HALO)and engage bad guys. This way I do not require an IR laser.



CD
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 4:48:01 AM EDT
Just took some new photos.

From top M14A2, Bug. AK47 with Surefire rail and CompM2 Aimpoint, Iraqi DMR AK variant (semi only) and M4A1 with ARMS SIR, BUIS, ACOG, Surefire and TD VFG. Forgot the HK mag



CD
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 5:01:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bulldogxj:
Mine is the 58M Mod (goes around the front sight) and lefty (and I love it)


img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Bulldogxj/Ar15022.jpg



That is sweeeet. I'm a lefty also.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 5:08:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 7:48:36 AM EDT by KevinB]
Thanks for adding to the discussion.

Link Posted: 9/20/2005 5:19:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 5:32:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 5:33:32 AM EDT by Painter]
Hey Combat_Diver-
Tango Down VFG on a SIR????? You got some splaining to do
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 5:53:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 5:55:31 AM EDT
I'm guessing he modded the VFG
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 6:09:24 AM EDT
I've had this SIR since they first came out. I've read up on all the new rails and until they come out with something better, thats available (URX), then I'm satisfied.



Link Posted: 9/20/2005 6:53:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 7:21:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 7:24:10 AM EDT by mrcr0603]


1. Heavier than other rail systems



Is the ounces substantial? Not for me.



2. More expensive than other rail systems



Glad I got the 10% off on mine.



3. Cannot use a Tango Down Vertical Grip



"Cannot"? The grip is PLASTIC. 10 minutes of hand filing involved, and that's it.





4. Cannot use an EOTech on any of the SIR's (less one)



Please explain why the EOTech can NOT be used on a SIR? I take it you're referring to the height of the sighting window.

I used Reflex's, which has pretty much the same height profile as the EOTech, on my SIRs with no problems. No cowitnessing though.


Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By AKM:

www.charlesrknight.com/Gallery/Knight/Prehistoric/FMNH/CK5T.jpg



I was wondering how long it would take for someone to show this pic!




Do you realize that you're unique as a site sponsor in how you conduct yourself on this board?


Chris
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 7:27:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:
1. Heavier than other rail systems



Is the ounces substantial? Not for me.



2. More expensive than other rail systems



Glad I got the 10% off on mine.



3. Cannot use a Tango Down Vertical Grip



"Cannot"? The grip is PLASTIC. 10 minutes of hand filing involved, and that's it.

www.hunt101.com/img/325914.jpg



4. Cannot use an EOTech on any of the SIR's (less one)



Please explain why the EOTech can NOT be used on a SIR? I take it you're referring to the height of the sighting window.

I used Reflex's, which has pretty much the same height profile as the EOTech, on my SIRs with no problems. No cowitnessing though.


Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By AKM:

www.charlesrknight.com/Gallery/Knight/Prehistoric/FMNH/CK5T.jpg



I was wondering how long it would take for someone to show this pic!




Do you realize that you're unique as a site sponsor in how you conduct yourself on this board?


Chris
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 7:31:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 7:45:01 AM EDT by C4iGrant]
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 7:46:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 7:50:10 AM EDT by mrcr0603]

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:
I am curious as to how my above comments were out of line?? I shared my opinion on the SIR from a consumer and dealer point of view. I identified the KNOWN shortcomings with this rail system. Isn't that what an open discussion forum is about (discussing the positives and negatives of gear)???



C4



Grant, I KNOW that you know what I'm referring to with my comment, but I'll explain myself anyway.

The way I see it, there are two aspects of conduct for a site sponsor on this internet discussion board .... 1) conduct during business; 2) conduct during discussions.

The level of professionalism among the site sponsors in both aspects are high across the board.

Unfortunately, there are times that during aspect 2) that you drop below the level, in particular these ARMS discussions.

Personally, I've done business with you before all this B.S., and want to again ....

My suggestion is, as a site sponsor and respected businessman, you should leave the unprofessional comments and general cheapshots for others to make because you've got a standard to uphold.


Chris
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 7:50:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 7:56:12 AM EDT by C4iGrant]
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 7:56:13 AM EDT
There was a special run of bottom rails, made by ARMS, that would allow you to use the TD VFG. There were not many made, and I don't think they are available anymore. But there are some folks on this board that got them.

And until the most recent evolution in FF rails, the ARMS was the hot ticket.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 8:02:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 8:15:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 8:18:43 AM EDT by gus]
Here are a couple of pics of mine (#45M) on my SP1 RR lower. I paid under $200 for it (since it's an "obsolete, heavy POS"), and it does exactly what I wanted - help with barrel cooling and burn prevention. This is strictly a fun F/A gun, and will never be used in any other capacity (hopefully). BTW - it came with a TD adapter (which I'm not using yet). Overall, it's perfect for my intended use. YMMV, but I like mine.




Link Posted: 9/20/2005 8:18:13 AM EDT
I owned a SIR, so I'm allowed to comment on my experience with it.

(1) It looks cool.
(2) It's heavy.
(3) It's bulky. There are lots of applications where you don't want a riser on the receiver rail.
(4) The side/bottom rails have problems fitting lots of stuff, including some vertical grips. The shoulder just isn't there. You can argue all day about who's "fault" that is and who's "in spec", but if it don't fit, it don't fit.
(5) It's sold because of (2), (3), and (4).


Link Posted: 9/20/2005 9:06:14 AM EDT
wow... when i look at this stuff for too long, i start to feel kind of "funny..." not necessarily in a good way...

Link Posted: 9/20/2005 9:23:53 AM EDT
Here is my M4gery setup. The SIR is a 45C

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