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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/7/2005 4:48:35 AM EDT
I'm curious, has anyone had to use their build for self defense? What are the legal ramifications of using a custom built weapon to apply leathal force to, say a home invader? Here's a quote of someone on my Walther forum:

"Well at the extreme risk of sounding like an Old hen or a Kill joy or Stuck in the Mud......I will offer you some comments on modifying the trigger group of your Gun.

If you are going to use your handgun "strictly" for pleasure shooting....and puching holes in paper at your local Gun Range then you need not read any further. Modify your gun to your hearts content.

But if you are going to use your handgun for home defense or personal defense........then there are some important issues you should be aware of. Discounting the obvious safety issues of maybe having a FTF in a life and death struggle.There was an in depth discussion of these issues on the S&W forum not to long ago where members described their "real life" incounters with the Law and Civil courts.......regarding the use of deadly force for self defense. So these points are not " could happen or might happen...........but they are actually what did happen and can happen again.

Shoot someone with a gun......and that gun will be taken into evidence( that's a given). That gun will be examined closely by the State and and any attorney hired by (family of) the person shot. When they find that the gun was modified to shoot faster or easier..........you the "shooter" will be made out to be a cold blooded killer...just looking to kill someone. Your image will be one of a person that took a deadly weapon.......and just had to go out and make changes so it would be easier to kill .

Of course, this is all B.S. but they ( attorneys) will march the company rep.s that built the gun ...into court and ask them if this modification is recommended or safe. You will not find one company that will support your modifications--period! Even S&W when they receive a gun for warranty work will remove "any" modifcations to the springs to avoid liability in a court action......and they tell you that before you send them the gun.

So there you sit in court labeled a killer.......building guns to kill faster and easier........do you get the picture. Of course your attorney will do what he can to put you in a better light...but juries nowadays are mostly anti-gun. The guy on the S&W forum was a law enforcement officer and he was found guilty as charged in a "civil Court Action" where the proof can be much less than in a criminal action. Luckily for him he had a friendly judge that fixed his sentence to a fine of $100, which he paid right away. Will you be as lucky ????

The cost of a trial defending yourself is extremely high ( and can destroy your family's finances)..........what you don't need is an attorney going after you in Civil court "loaded" with the facts that you modified a gun so it would be easier to Use ( kill).

I have seen it too many times..........juries are willing to bend over backwards for the criminals or attcakers if they get hurt by the average citizen........why this is so baffles me to this day........but it doesn't change the facts.

I would never use a modified gun for CCW or home defense, where I am altering the mechanical nature of the weapon and is not 100% supported by factory gunsmiths !!

Off my soap box now <smile>"

Anyone? Comments? Anyone? Bueler?
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 8:49:05 AM EDT
I will venture to guess that "light weight", or "match" triggers are more of an issue in an accidental discharge case, I won't use them on any of my weapons, my AKs are allready too light for one thing.

I guess if you are holding a guy at gun-point and your weapon ADs you're screwed.

But if I intentionally kill a guy I'm not really to worried, at least not about the type weapon I used. I can allmost gaurantee if you kill a human, for any reason, you'll be sued in civil coart.

My concern about my 80% guns is that the cops won't understand why it dosn't have a S/N on it, but I keep good records of ATF letters to cover my ass on that.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 11:10:12 AM EDT
I really would like to kick anyone in the balls who says guns are ment to kill. They can be used for that and in most cases they are. If someone breaks into your home to intent to do dammage to you or your family I will say this as a 16 year old. Spray there fuckin brains all over the place. I rather get death then seen some son of a bitch hurt anyone in my family.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 12:44:29 PM EDT
This gets brought up all the time, but I'm unaware of any righteous shooting in which the internal parts of the weapon have been brought up in court.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 12:52:05 PM EDT

Everyone repeats this crap "I can almost gaurantee you will be sued in civil court" if you kill another human. Got news for you, here in my state last year, a man witnessed a woman being beaten almost to death by some bad guy on the street. The good samaritan walked up to the bad guy and tried to interveen. He was forced to draw his CCW and kill the man. It was either that or just walk away. He chose to do the right thing. Police took the shooter to the station and questioned him. They determined he was justified and saved the woman's life. They let him go "with his handgun". This was last year and to date no family member of the bad guy has brought a civil suit against him.

A few months ago a woman was car-jacked at gun point. Another good samaritan noticed the woman fighting with her attacker as the two cars passed. The good guy turned his car around and followed only to witness the bad guy run a red light. A cement truck hit the car-jacker on the passanger side and killed the woman. The car-jacker got out of the SUV and ran to a gas station. The good guy got out of his car, told the car-jacker to stop and when the BG turned around with his gun in hand, the good guy pulled his CCW and shot and killed the jacker. Police questioned the man and let him go "with his handgun". The police even made a statement to the press who was now on the scene calling the good guy a "HERO" and probably prevented more killings. To date the lawful shooter has not been sued in civil court by any family member of the car-jacker. In fact it was later determined the car-jacker was responsible for a rape and abduction two weeks earlier.

There are more stories like this from my state that are verifiable but I yet to hear from someone that has first hand knowledge of someone doing time for a lawful shooting.

Rant Over,

Link Posted: 10/7/2005 4:59:48 PM EDT
I am a cop. I personally have worked a shooting where a homeowner shot a burgler in the face. The burgler did not die but we felt the shooting was justified. The man was protecting his home. But I still took his leagally owned firearm as evidence. I could not imagine not have taking it. It was a very important piece of evidence. Although the home owner did recieve his firearm back once it was test fired and ballistic tests were done. I dont see how in even a justified shooting resulting in death or not the gun used cannot be taken as evidence. It is probably the most important piece of evidence in the case and the case cannot be fully investigated without the gun used.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 5:15:14 PM EDT
Here in Colorado, we have the make my day law.

Simple stated, someone breaks/forces there way into your house, that sole act has put you in harms way. You have the right to use deadly force, Period.

Dead is dead, and it doesn't matter how/what you use to defened yourself in your home (read shoot him with a MG, then push the refrigarator over on him if he twitchs, and your still legal with out fear of any lawsuits).

Link Posted: 10/7/2005 5:54:04 PM EDT

Sounds like a great law. I think I like Colorado even more than Georgia. Guess I have to move there. Georgia is a big step up for me since I was born and raised in the PRK. Kalifornia was a great place to live as a kid 50 years ago but not now. Georgia is very gun friendly but it sounds like your state takes the cake.

Link Posted: 10/7/2005 5:57:51 PM EDT
As of the beginning of the month here in Florida, you shoot someone in self-defense, the ability to be sued is highly limited. This is according to the new law that has been put into place.

Of course only time will tell how well it actually stands up.
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