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Posted: 4/30/2012 3:09:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/30/2012 3:09:27 PM EST by Brahmzy]
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Looks stupid. I love folding stocks, but not POS ones that say in bold "Not meant to be fired when folded..." That right there is stupid. Yes you can fold it up a little smaller to fit in a smaller gun case, but if you can't shoot it folded (from a vehicle, etc) then why waste the money? You can buy a SCAR-16, or a Sig 551 and have the best of both worlds.
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I do my best to believe the crap in your posts.....
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$180 for that, or you could pay $200 for a stamp to own an SBR that can actually be shot in a modular package
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I'm a generally picky bastard, but I think it is a good idea. Who the hell walks around firing a rifle folded like some kind of skinny? Not me. Who gives a shit if it can fire folded? Not me. Can this stock make it look less like I am carrying rifle by being able to fit the rifle in a smaller case? Yes. It looks like it will make my 14.5" fit in the case that I keep the 10.5" in, which is good, or maybe I can fit 2 10.5"s in one case now (there's an idea). Now, how durable is the adapter and will it effect reliability? Those are the questions that need answering here.
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I am a slave to my creations.... my image cannot be seen in them, but they bear my heart and soul - evl....
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Originally Posted By kylestyle:
$180 for that, or you could pay $200 for a stamp to own an SBR that can actually be shot in a modular package modular? I'm confused. |
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I am a slave to my creations.... my image cannot be seen in them, but they bear my heart and soul - evl....
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Originally Posted By kylestyle:
$180 for that, or you could pay $200 for a stamp to own an SBR that can actually be shot in a modular package Huh? An SBR is where something like this belongs. And why the hell would you want to fire it folded? Do you live in South Central? Anyway, I'd like feedback from an actual user as to the build quality of this? Is it a cast pos that could snap and send a BCG through my chest? Is it a solid lockup with no looseness/flex when deployed? Does the weird additional length and carrier extension cause malfs, or induce finicky cycling? How tight does it tuck up against the upper rec? I wouldn't mind one of my DI SBRs folding up into an even tinier package. Problem is this thing would have to really be built well to go on one of my guns, and at only $180, it's probably crap. |
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I think what he meant was there are plenty of SBRs that have factory side folding stocks such as the Sig 556, Sig 551, SCAR 16S, Robinson Arms, and others. You can get them in small barrel configurations that would be for PSD or car based shooting.
Regarding your statement of why would you want to shoot a gun with the stock folded? Ever try to shoot from a vehicle? It is almost impossible with the stock hanging out the rear of the rifle. It puts the gun out too far and limits your mobility. The video on their website is retarded. Nobody would walk around with their stock folded when it disables your rifles ability to shoot. They were flipping it out to engage the target, then folding it back. That would never be the case unless you were in very tight spaces and needed all the room you could to climb a ladder in a narrow area, or something like that. Using a sling, you can shoot with the stock folded almost as accurately as a rifle with a stock. Just look at all the AR pistols that people use with no issues. I never said firing form the hip, but shooting with the stock folded gives you much more room when you really need it in tight spaces. Nobody will spend $180 to have a stock fold up for storage. At least no law enforcement or military I know. Originally Posted By Brahmzy:
Originally Posted By kylestyle:
$180 for that, or you could pay $200 for a stamp to own an SBR that can actually be shot in a modular package Huh? An SBR is where something like this belongs. And why the hell would you want to fire it folded? Do you live in South Central? Anyway, I'd like feedback from an actual user as to the build quality of this? Is it a cast pos that could snap and send a BCG through my chest? Is it a solid lockup with no looseness/flex when deployed? Does the weird additional length and carrier extension cause malfs, or induce finicky cycling? How tight does it tuck up against the upper rec? I wouldn't mind one of my DI SBRs folding up into an even tinier package. Problem is this thing would have to really be built well to go on one of my guns, and at only $180, it's probably crap. |
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I do my best to believe the crap in your posts.....
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not sure why I said modular
- meant to say compact
Where exactly did I say I wanted to shoot it folded? Anyways are you trying to tell me the ability to fire folded doesn't provide any sort of benefit? As for stowing or carrying it in a case, why not take a second to separate your upper and lower instead of paying $180 to shave give or take 8" off the length? I'm not trying to play commando here but let's say you're using this thing as shown (a practical application) in the video - carrying it in a patrol like fashion folded. You've now relinquished the ability to fire at an immediate threat without flipping that stock and shouldering the weapon. |
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Originally Posted By kylestyle:
not sure why I said modular - meant to say compact
Where exactly did I say I wanted to shoot it folded? Anyways are you trying to tell me the ability to fire folded doesn't provide any sort of benefit? As for stowing or carrying it in a case, why not take a second to separate your upper and lower instead of paying $180 to shave give or take 8" off the length? I'm not trying to play commando here but let's say you're using this thing as shown (a practical application) in the video - carrying it in a patrol like fashion folded. You've now relinquished the ability to fire at an immediate threat without flipping that stock and shouldering the weapon. Agreed - the video wreaks of gheyness and stupidity. And yes, there could be benefits to fire a folded rifle. Although I've never encountered a time where I couldn't shoulder my 10.5 adequately. Simple storage is what interested me here. Backpack, duffle etc. |
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it appears to have a bolt carrier extension (look at the directions), i think this would interfere with disassembling the upper and lower.
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I got a chance to fondle one of these at a gun show. It seemed robust. The mechanism was clever. If I had the extra dough I would have bought one. Why? I don't know, it just looked different.
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Topic Moved
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I would have to look at one in person, but if it cant fire when folded its stupid.
I'll stick with my Mk16 |
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I dont understand the need to fire a rifle with the stock folded like some inbred third worlder.
You say its better to fire from your vehicle, but wouldnt it still be a better idea to shoot the rifle with the stock open to get a cheak weld? I mean who sits there and actually holds a 5.56 rifle like a Uzi and fired from their vehicles? Raise your hands? As far as a military role, wouldnt it be better to leave your windows up for protection, never heard of anyone shooting through their windows to engage a target in the real world
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Originally Posted by Iraqgunz
This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really? |
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I'll be reviewing one for Military Times, I'll let you know my thoughts when it arrives and I spend some time with one.
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Stick
sales@rainierarms.com www.rainierarms.com (253) 218-2999 Office (253) 218-2998 FAX www.weaponevolution.com www.stickgunner.com |
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Nice. Waiting for review.
Its $179!!!
And it adds 1.3 inches to stock length...which I might like. |
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Originally Posted By ak4784:
Nice. Waiting for review. Its $179!!!
And it adds 1.3 inches to stock length...which I might like. Well my usual shooting position when not on a bench is 2 clicks out on carbines. Could just throw an entry-length ACE skeleton stock on there... But before too much longer, I'll have a folding AR or two that WILL fire when folded |
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Im not interested in shooting with a folded stock, but I am interested in making my SBR even smaller for storage. I currently disassemble the rifle to keep it stored discreetly and this stock adapter would get the rifle into action more quickly. If this is made well and doesn't affect reliability, I'm in.
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Originally Posted By TitusAndronicus:
Im not interested in shooting with a folded stock, but I am interested in making my SBR even smaller for storage. I currently disassemble the rifle to keep it stored discreetly and this stock adapter would get the rifle into action more quickly. If this is made well and doesn't affect reliability, I'm in. That is my thoughts towards it as well. I have no interest in shooting a folding stock AR with the stock in, but to pack it up smaller or to carry in it a vehicle, I like that idea. |
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Stick
sales@rainierarms.com www.rainierarms.com (253) 218-2999 Office (253) 218-2998 FAX www.weaponevolution.com www.stickgunner.com |
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Here’s my experience with a folding stock AR…
I bought (and just sold) an RRA LAR-PDS. Read all about my adventures with RRA here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_126/566818_Rock_River_Arms_Piston_Driven_System.html. I will NEVER buy another RRA product for as long as I live. That being said, the folding stock does have its advantages such as storage. When folded, you can carry it in a reasonable sized duffel bag that doesn’t scream “steal me!”. I was going to shorten the barrel and install this stock: http://shop.nordiccomp.com/NC-Compact-Retractable-Butt-Stock-STK-CRS-BRS.htm It will fit an AR that doesn’t need a buffer tube and WILL fire folded. That is pretty much only 3 AR’s ever made (unless it’s a .22). The short barrel, combined with an HK-style stock would have been a great CQB AR. I was going to add a vertical grip to the left rail and a laser somewhere up front. I had visions in my head of a “chainsaw” type rifle. What I didn’t think of, however, are some of the less-obvious problems. The battery release is impossible to reach with the left hand. You will need a BAD lever. Same with the safety. You can’t have an ambi-mag release. Basically, you need to move everything from the left to the right.. Plus, you look like an a-hole shooting it with the stock folded. About the only person that could pull it off and look cool would be Chuck Norris. And I, sir, am no Chuck Norris… All this being said, I will NEVER buy another Rock River arms product and I encourage you all to think long and hard before you do! They have not lived up to their promises and are unreliable. I am just happy I realized how bad they are before I ever needed them. If you ever end up with their products, pray that you never need their help… I have the stock on gunbroker for $100 with free shipping. If someone wants it, please PM me. |
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My law stock was shipped today. I plan on primarly running it on a 11.5" 5.56 upper with a lower using an ACE ultralite entry stock. Will also throw on suppressed 9mm sbr upper from time to time. Also have a 8" .45 acp upper too; which I willing to bet with the stock folded I can stick it in my backpack. Pics when stock arrives.
My real concern with be the bolt carrier extension. Not sure of the weight but I can assume it will affect the gas system on something as finicky as my .45acp DI upper. Don't really think it will make a difference on my 5.56 upper using brass ammo(not sure on the weak Tula ammo though) or the blow back 9mm upper. |
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Originally Posted By Stickman:
Originally Posted By TitusAndronicus:
Im not interested in shooting with a folded stock, but I am interested in making my SBR even smaller for storage. I currently disassemble the rifle to keep it stored discreetly and this stock adapter would get the rifle into action more quickly. If this is made well and doesn't affect reliability, I'm in. That is my thoughts towards it as well. I have no interest in shooting a folding stock AR with the stock in, but to pack it up smaller or to carry in it a vehicle, I like that idea. +1 Looking forward to that review. I assume you will be working your photography mojo as well |
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I am a slave to my creations.... my image cannot be seen in them, but they bear my heart and soul - evl....
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Originally Posted By evlblkwpnz:
+1 Looking forward to that review. I assume you will be working your photography mojo as well I've got no doubt there will be lots of pictures. If it gets here soon enough, I'll include it with the 5,000 round 10 upper 300BLK review that is upcoming as well.... |
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Stick
sales@rainierarms.com www.rainierarms.com (253) 218-2999 Office (253) 218-2998 FAX www.weaponevolution.com www.stickgunner.com |
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Originally Posted By kenndogg:
My law stock was shipped today. I plan on primarly running it on a 11.5" 5.56 upper with a lower using an ACE ultralite entry stock. Will also throw on suppressed 9mm sbr upper from time to time. Also have a 8" .45 acp upper too; which I willing to bet with the stock folded I can stick it in my backpack. Pics when stock arrives. My real concern with be the bolt carrier extension. Not sure of the weight but I can assume it will affect the gas system on something as finicky as my .45acp DI upper. Don't really think it will make a difference on my 5.56 upper using brass ammo(not sure on the weak Tula ammo though) or the blow back 9mm upper. It;s like you are reading my mind. Please let us know how that works out! |
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"I cannot save the world, nor can I save mankind. The best I can possibly hope to achieve in my lifetime, is to save myself from the world, and mankind."
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I'm very interested as well. I like the idea of being able to cram it into a much smaller backpack, and still be quickly deployable. I live in a state which does not let me have SBR's, so anything to shrink the rifle is appealing to me. I've thought about the XCR and other options, but I really just enjoy the AR platform too much to leave it.
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As homotroid as their video appears, I'm mildly interested in this for my SPR
Pros; 1. compact storage 2. Add 1.3" to A2 stock for my 14.5" LOP 3. Easier cleaning of barrel 4. Additional buffer mass for those heavy 77g SPR loads |
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dupe
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Thanks for the initial report. Any chance you can get video of this thing operating? I can't believe the spring tension wouldn't be enough to hold that ultralight ace folded.
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Tagged as this is very interesting.
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The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them.
Patrick Henry 1 Samuel 8 |
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I'll see what I can do as for as a video tomorrow at the range.
Yeah kinda of suck to it just dangles if tilted 90 degrees to the left, but it does go back in its folding position on its own when rotated back 90 degrees. Been just doing some function test with dummy rounds and everything seems fine. Also if I'm more conscious when I rack the charging handle I can most of the time not hit the top of the adapter I also tried one of my other uppers and the extension was again too tight for the carrier. It will fit my 7.62x39 carrier though. So far will fit in my BCM full auto carrier and the 7.62x39 semi auto carrier but not the DD full auto carrier. |
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Interested but would miss the Noveske endplate as a sling atachment point.
ETA: Looking at the pictures on the site... perhaps it will still work. |
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"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." 1791 Dec. 23. (Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart)
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Originally Posted By jasonusvi:
Interested but would miss the Noveske endplate as a sling atachment point. ETA: Looking at the pictures on the site... perhaps it will still work. if you're talking about this, than it would stil work since you do still use an end plate for a carbine buffer. |
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Have one inbound. Guessing it will impact buffer weight choice.
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"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." 1791 Dec. 23. (Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart)
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Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
I dont understand the need to fire a rifle with the stock folded like some inbred third worlder. You say its better to fire from your vehicle, but wouldnt it still be a better idea to shoot the rifle with the stock open to get a cheak weld? I mean who sits there and actually holds a 5.56 rifle like a Uzi and fired from their vehicles? Raise your hands? As far as a military role, wouldnt it be better to leave your windows up for protection, never heard of anyone shooting through their windows to engage a target in the real world ![]() I'll let Larry Vickers ( a well known inbred 3rd worlder) explain why more capabilities are a good thing. Larry Vickers explains why a folding stock and the capibility to fire is a good thing |
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Originally Posted By albatrossarmament:
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
I dont understand the need to fire a rifle with the stock folded like some inbred third worlder. You say its better to fire from your vehicle, but wouldnt it still be a better idea to shoot the rifle with the stock open to get a cheak weld? I mean who sits there and actually holds a 5.56 rifle like a Uzi and fired from their vehicles? Raise your hands? As far as a military role, wouldnt it be better to leave your windows up for protection, never heard of anyone shooting through their windows to engage a target in the real world ![]() I'll let Larry Vickers ( a well known inbred 3rd worlder) explain why more capabilities are a good thing. Larry Vickers explains why a folding stock and the capibility to fire is a good thing Video is fun but to your point, more capabilities are a good thing. The adapter adds a capability otherwise not possible on the standard AR platform. Before now, if a folding stock was a high priority for any reason, you had to go with something other than an AR. |
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"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." 1791 Dec. 23. (Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart)
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Thanks for the writeup! Would you mind to tell me what the length of your rifle is with the stock folded?
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Observe-Overreact-Destroy-Apologize
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I am also interested for the same reasons, though I wonder if this would require a tax stamp if used on a non SBR.
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Si vis pacem, para bellum.
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kenndogg:
If you are worried about the carrier insert rotating you can try loctite 620. That will keep it in place but might make it a bit of a bitch to try and remove if you wanted to. |
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Originally Posted By TrackSol:
I am also interested for the same reasons, though I wonder if this would require a tax stamp if used on a non SBR. Why would it require a tax stamp? Theres tons of foldig AK's out there. Besides when you measure your OAL you extend the stock, also SBR purely relates to barrel length |
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Originally Posted by Iraqgunz
This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really? |
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Originally Posted By dan9591:
Here’s my experience with a folding stock AR… I bought (and just sold) an RRA LAR-PDS. Read all about my adventures with RRA here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_126/566818_Rock_River_Arms_Piston_Driven_System.html. I will NEVER buy another RRA product for as long as I live. That being said, the folding stock does have its advantages such as storage. When folded, you can carry it in a reasonable sized duffel bag that doesn’t scream “steal me!”. I was going to shorten the barrel and install this stock: http://shop.nordiccomp.com/NC-Compact-Retractable-Butt-Stock-STK-CRS-BRS.htm It will fit an AR that doesn’t need a buffer tube and WILL fire folded. That is pretty much only 3 AR’s ever made (unless it’s a .22). The short barrel, combined with an HK-style stock would have been a great CQB AR. I was going to add a vertical grip to the left rail and a laser somewhere up front. I had visions in my head of a “chainsaw” type rifle. What I didn’t think of, however, are some of the less-obvious problems. The battery release is impossible to reach with the left hand. You will need a BAD lever. Same with the safety. You can’t have an ambi-mag release. Basically, you need to move everything from the left to the right.. Plus, you look like an a-hole shooting it with the stock folded. About the only person that could pull it off and look cool would be Chuck Norris. And I, sir, am no Chuck Norris… All this being said, I will NEVER buy another Rock River arms product and I encourage you all to think long and hard before you do! They have not lived up to their promises and are unreliable. I am just happy I realized how bad they are before I ever needed them. If you ever end up with their products, pray that you never need their help… I have the stock on gunbroker for $100 with free shipping. If someone wants it, please PM me. Strange, I have three RRA and they all run great, building another one now and from what I personally seen, they have always backed up thier product. |
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Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
Originally Posted By TrackSol:
I am also interested for the same reasons, though I wonder if this would require a tax stamp if used on a non SBR. Why would it require a tax stamp? Theres tons of foldig AK's out there. Besides when you measure your OAL you extend the stock, also SBR purely relates to barrel length Not in every state. |
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NRA Endowment
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Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
Originally Posted By TrackSol:
I am also interested for the same reasons, though I wonder if this would require a tax stamp if used on a non SBR. Why would it require a tax stamp? Theres tons of foldig AK's out there. Besides when you measure your OAL you extend the stock, also SBR purely relates to barrel length I also thought about the folding AK's but I thought it might only be legal if it came that way from the factory, kind of like the pistol grip shotguns. After your reply I did a bit more research and saw that at the federal level it's legal. I just need to check my state's laws. Thanks. |
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Si vis pacem, para bellum.
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KYtechmike,
Length folded with an 11.5" and Battle Comp 1.5 is approx. 21.5" chuck1, Since have 4 uppers I am going to rotate using this lower so I don't see that as an option. I will say tha after putting 500 round of 5.56 and 100 rounds of 7.62x39 that it rotated no more than 45 degrees and I was able to fold the stock without issues. Will put 500 rounds of Tula tomorrow. This ammo is pretty weak so we'll see if the added 2 oz of the extension with affect this rifle with a standard carbine buffer. I will be taking Travis Haley's carbine class in Oct., so by then I hope to have shot at least 3k before than and if all goes well at the class than I would say it's a keeper. |
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Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
Originally Posted By TrackSol:
I am also interested for the same reasons, though I wonder if this would require a tax stamp if used on a non SBR. Why would it require a tax stamp? Theres tons of foldig AK's out there. Besides when you measure your OAL you extend the stock, also SBR purely relates to barrel length Not in every state. The weapon cannot function in the folded position, so how is it not the same as the KelTec Sub2000 or SU-16, which I believe are 50 state legal with the proper mags... (I guess you could get a single shot off before it locks up, though...) |
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Originally Posted By kenndogg:
KYtechmike, Length folded with an 11.5" and Battle Comp 1.5 is approx. 21.5" chuck1, Since have 4 uppers I am going to rotate using this lower so I don't see that as an option. I will say tha after putting 500 round of 5.56 and 100 rounds of 7.62x39 that it rotated on more than 45 degrees and I was able to fold the stock without issues. Will put 500 rounds of Tula tomorrow. This ammo is pretty weak so we'll see if the added 2 oz of the extension with affect this rifle with a standard carbine buffer. I will be taking Travis Haley's carbine class in Oct., so by then I hope to have shot at least 3k before than and if all goes well at the class than I would say it's a keeper. How far does the piece extend into the carrier? Maybe a setscrew (either straight up or at an angle) in the piece that can be reached with it in place. Might provide enough resistance from rotating. There should be some way to keep it interchangeable but secure. |
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Stick
sales@rainierarms.com www.rainierarms.com (253) 218-2999 Office (253) 218-2998 FAX www.weaponevolution.com www.stickgunner.com |
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Originally Posted By Stickman: http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Magpul%207/STKL8235-B-1200-Stick.jpg Got a review up anywhere yet? |
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Overkill is underrated.
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Originally Posted By sdman11890:
Originally Posted By Stickman:
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Magpul%207/STKL8235-B-1200-Stick.jpg Got a review up anywhere yet? Nope, just picked it up today. First impressions should be up shortly at Military Times/ Gear Scout. |
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Stick
sales@rainierarms.com www.rainierarms.com (253) 218-2999 Office (253) 218-2998 FAX www.weaponevolution.com www.stickgunner.com |
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Originally Posted By Stickman: Originally Posted By sdman11890: Originally Posted By Stickman: http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Magpul%207/STKL8235-B-1200-Stick.jpg Got a review up anywhere yet? Nope, just picked it up today. First impressions should be up shortly at Military Times/ Gear Scout. Awesome, thanks! |
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Overkill is underrated.
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