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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/16/2004 5:03:00 PM EST
I am looking at lasers. Can anyone advise on a laser? I want one that is incoporated into the gun that does not hang out anywhere.

Are there any grips you can get for the ar-15 that also have a lser incorporated into them?
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 5:10:40 PM EST
I found one folks! Coming soon! Check it out!

Oh YEAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.crimsontrace.com/indexLGP.htm
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 5:12:36 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 5:14:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2004 5:19:44 PM EST by DM1975]
If you want a laser get a Laser Devices OTAL... try looking in the Lights and Lasers section on this board it might be more helpful.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 5:20:52 PM EST
Think HARD about why you really want one............
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 5:22:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Think HARD about why you really want one............



Why is that? I have one and do not regret it.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 6:50:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2004 6:53:58 PM EST by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By DM1975:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Think HARD about why you really want one............



Why is that? I have one and do not regret it.




What do you have and what are you using it for?


I don't consider putting a little red dot on someone's chest a necessary or even desirable thing. Those types tend to be toys. Hollywood appeal.

Now the military type uses are something else, but then we are talking big dollar lasers.


I'm not aware of any tactical courses that recommend lasers, but I can't be certain.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 6:56:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2004 6:58:39 PM EST by Sidx]

Originally Posted By YO:
I found one folks! Coming soon! Check it out!

Oh YEAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.crimsontrace.com/indexLGP.htm



That is interesting looking.. laser thingy.. I picked up two MR2 Lasers for about $400 each but I never ever never ever ever used them .

I am not sure what to say about this.... just a interesting looking laser idea..



Link Posted: 10/16/2004 6:57:46 PM EST
I think lasers act not only as an aiming device in some situations, but also as a deterent to pulling the trigger. Not to say I am against killing someone if it needs to be done, but the intimination of a laser on someones chest can do quite a bit to bring the situation down. Mabey others have different opinions though.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 7:04:29 PM EST
If I point a weapon at someone, they are probably going to die. I don't need a laser as a detterent, if me pulling the weapon on them hasn't stopped them, I'll probably end up killing them anyway. I prefer a red dot optic. More reiable, longer ranged and it doesnt give up my position. NVDs and IR lasers are another thing entirely.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 7:04:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 7:13:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2004 7:15:10 PM EST by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
If I point a weapon at someone, they are probably going to die. I don't need a laser as a detterent, if me pulling the weapon on them hasn't stopped them, I'll probably end up killing them anyway. I prefer a red dot optic. More reiable, longer ranged and it doesnt give up my position. NVDs and IR lasers are another thing entirely.




Yup this is what I was trying to say.


Also, Real life isn't hollywood.


If you point a gun at someone, do you really expect them to look down at their chest to see if you are aiming correctly?


If you need the laser for aiming, you need more training. Trying to find that little dot, then move it to where you want it, you are DEAD. Time kills.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 7:21:27 PM EST
I use an OTAL on my rifle for CQB/reflexive fire and find it alot easier than useing my M68.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 7:50:44 PM EST
I agree with you regardless of what the others say. I want the laser not because I am incapable of using the iron sights or a scope, but for looks and also the intimidating factor. And, once, again, because I can have it.

Anyway, thanks to all of you for them replies.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 10:06:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2004 10:07:30 PM EST by eodinert]

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Trying to find that little dot, then move it to where you want it, you are DEAD. Time kills.



Yeah, that's why those aimpoints suck. Oh wait, they don't suck.

The only difference between the aimpoint and the laser at night is that I have to put my head behind the aimpoint to use it, the laser works wherever my head is. That, and the visible red light over my weapon when I activate the light.

If you look through the aimpoint at the laser dot, it's difficult to tell which is from the aimpoint, and which is from the laser.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 11:23:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2004 11:25:00 PM EST by DM1975]

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
If I point a weapon at someone, they are probably going to die. I don't need a laser as a detterent, if me pulling the weapon on them hasn't stopped them, I'll probably end up killing them anyway. I prefer a red dot optic. More reiable, longer ranged and it doesnt give up my position. NVDs and IR lasers are another thing entirely.




Yup this is what I was trying to say.


Also, Real life isn't hollywood.


If you point a gun at someone, do you really expect them to look down at their chest to see if you are aiming correctly?


If you need the laser for aiming, you need more training. Trying to find that little dot, then move it to where you want it, you are DEAD. Time kills.



I guess I didn't see this... I train with a laser all the time, I use one on my rifle all the time... Real world, not pretend land day at the range (although there is nothing wrong with that) The OTAL performed well enough in training that my CO decided to get them for the entire Company for our return to Iraq... Tell me more about how real life isn't Hollywood please...
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 11:29:56 PM EST
DM, they may work for you, but for me its a hindrance. To each his own. Also, I was thinking more for self defense than military applications. I havent considered the ramifications of a visible laser in combat, and with my level of training I probably couldn't think of them all.

Good luck in the sanbox, BTW.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 11:37:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2004 11:38:34 PM EST by DM1975]
The thing we are going to use them for is reflexive fire in a MOUT environment. By the time you have a door kicked in everyone knows you are in the house. With these you have instant feedback on where your rounds will impact without having to look through an optic or anything else for that matter, it is an instant target aquisition. I was not directing my last comments at you however in my time as a police officer alot of the officers I worked with had lasers on their pistols and used them always for the same purpose, target aquisition (which is easier with the laser than looking down iron sights) not intimidation. Something to think about concerning self defense.
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 11:51:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By YO:
I am looking at lasers. Can anyone advise on a laser? I want one that is incoporated into the gun that does not hang out anywhere.

Are there any grips you can get for the ar-15 that also have a lser incorporated into them?
Posted :: 10/16/2004 10:03:00 PM





I found one folks! Coming soon! Check it out!

Oh YEAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.crimsontrace.com/indexLGP.htm

Posted :: 10/16/2004 10:10:40 PM



Took you only 7 minutes to google "Laser Sights", find Crimson Trace's website and read enough to get happy and repost. You, sir, are a true internet surfing veteran

I salute you!
Link Posted: 10/16/2004 11:53:34 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 1:03:19 AM EST
Lasers do have other uses.

I took a scoped AR-10, clamped a monoloc and a Gen3 mini night vision monocular to the scope's eyepiece and attempted to nail a fist sized target at 100 yds in complete darkness.

Suffice to say the target (center of mass on a standard cardboard silhouette) was very difficult to see. As more magnification was dialed in the scope the mono would get darker as less light was available to it. A happy compromise was about 3.5x, where I could make out the silhouette with fair definition.

Then I lit it up with a visible laser. This is like having a pinpoint flashlight beam that will illuminate a small area, perfect for seeing a small target. Within 3 seconds I could place the crosshairs COM and fire. Reset and repeat. Results weren't that bad. 5 hurried shots within 3moa. Without the laser I could still easily hit the silhouette but there wasn't the precision I would expect.

Next trip in the dark I'll use an AR-15 with an EOTech 552. No magnification but the NVD won't be restricted by a scope. There shouldn't be a need then for a laser so I could go completely passive. We'll see.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:02:11 AM EST
I think lazers belong on Aisoft.......
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 6:32:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By DM1975:

I guess I didn't see this... I train with a laser all the time, I use one on my rifle all the time... Real world, not pretend land day at the range (although there is nothing wrong with that) The OTAL performed well enough in training that my CO decided to get them for the entire Company for our return to Iraq... Tell me more about how real life isn't Hollywood please...




As I tried to say, I'm not talking about military tactics and military grade units,


I am critical of commerical lasers that are essentially toys.


As with any electronic device you rely on, it's likely to be turned off or DOA just when you need it most - Murphy's Law


Hey, it's Yo's money, he can do what he wants. I just suggested he seriously consider why he wants it. If you want if for serious purposes, you need to buy serious gear.

If not, why not just go Airsoft so you can play with your toy all the time?

I have lasers - I used them to play with my dogs in the basement, they love chasing them.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 6:54:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
I am critical of commerical lasers that are essentially toys.

As with any electronic device you rely on, it's likely to be turned off or DOA just when you need it most - Murphy's Law

Hey, it's Yo's money, he can do what he wants. I just suggested he seriously consider why he wants it. If you want if for serious purposes, you need to buy serious gear.




Thats why I suggested the OTAL, it is about as reliable as the Aimpoint is and works better in my opinion but who am I to know anything, its not like I do this shit for a living...
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 6:58:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2004 7:10:18 AM EST by ebgb68]
Look how there using them.
www.crimsontrace.com/indexLGP.htm
Lets do it this way

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