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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 8/26/2003 10:21:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2003 12:44:00 PM EST by Lockedon]
I've heard several members trashing lasers on this forum, and saying that they are not worth the money. Why?
I'm just looking for something cheap as a back-up for when the gun is fired from the hip position for example, (my primary sight will be an eotech/aimpoint). I saw a BSA sight for 30 bucks, and was wondering if it was any good. The local wal-mart has some lasers for "air-rilfes"....now before you laugh, i've learned in the past that you needed to have very rugged types of scopes to sustain the harsh "unique" recoil that air-rilfes give...so does this apply to lasers, and does that mean that, that one is decent?
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 5:03:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2003 5:04:30 PM EST by JCox]
Lockedon, I'm surprised that no one has responded to your question. I am by no means an expert on this but I think you deserve some kind of an answer. From what I have heard and read, lasers are fine if that's what you want. I don't think that there is a "heavy duty" laser. They are pretty much the same. As far as a scope. I am looking at BSA as well. Will probably get one in two weeks during a gun show. EO Tech is an excellent scope but it's pricy as well. From what I've been told BSA will do just fine. For $30, put it on there and see if you like it or not. If you do, then you have a $30 scope that suits your needs. If it doesn't, sell it and get you something else. I have learned with my Bushy that if you can find accessories fairly cheap and it suits your needs then you come out a winner all the way around. Just my $0.02 worth and I may be corrected which is fine. Good luck.
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 5:47:06 PM EST
I've used lasers and i can say with all honesty they are 'ok', but i would not put much stock in one. Get familiar with your rifle and at short range you should be able to hip fire into a man-sized target at 25m with no problems. I try 'rapid movement' shots with my pistol (Glock 23) and rifle (M4A2 with EOTech) from hip to unaimed shot and my goal is a 15m hit on a 4x6 index card and a 50m man sized target somewhere in the black. A little practice and you wont need a laser. To me, trying to find the dot will take your mind out of situational awareness, and any source of light drowns it out... A better investment, IMHO, would be a light which you can focus to a reasonable beam and use that for aiming. Surefires are great, but expensive, you can also try Scorpion lights or some other fancy off-brands that i hear work well. Really, tho, save your cash, get a nice EOtech (i have 2, the bottom line and the top line... very little difference) and you'll never need a laser. Your mileage may vary
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 6:07:02 PM EST
First of all, thank you for responding. By the $30 for a bsa sight I meant it was a laser. Well i see you guys' point. I've read that lasers can have an intimidating affect on threats and, in a defense situation for example, can AID in subduing an intruder non-violently. I recently ordered my surefire from Brightflashlights on the EE (excelent guy btw). I'm also definately getting an Eotech once, so i guess that laser will only serve a minor purpose.
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 6:22:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2003 6:28:53 PM EST by M4_Man]
I don't have much experience with the Eotechs, but would strongly endorse the Aimpoint. There was a thread from hell about the two, no need to rehash it here. You will be well served by either. Now on to the lasers. 1. Range isn't all that on a rifle, carbine, etc, it's use is minimal because of it's range. 2. Lasers wash out in sunlight. This is bad because if you learn to rely on it and it doesn't work when you need it you may be in BIG trouble. 3. Lasers give away your position in tactical situations. May seem like no big deal just for messing around with, but as a former army officer who's seen a couple of combat tours, I have seen time and again that people WILL react how they have trained. You can walk up to a soldier and ask why they took a certain course of action, and they will reply that they didn't think/reason at the time (even if it was something good). Training correctly really is of utmost importance! This applies if you aren't a soldier, nor wish to train as one. If you even consider using the weapon for real, then you have to train accordingly.
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 8:14:46 PM EST
I don't believe lasers provide a deterent. There could be a laser pointed at you right now and you wouldn't no it. Unless it hits you in the eye or something, or for some reason your in a lethal encounter and you take the time to examine your chest/back/etc for laser dots. I heard one anecdote, I think in a lasermax ad, about a border patrol guy pointing a laser at one of the guys in a group and that being a deterent. I bet if others saw the dot it might deter them from doing something, but than again you can't, or shouldn't, "dot" a non-aggressor hoping the aggressor will see it. I think they are garbage, even the $400 ones. Unless you go IR Laser and use it w/ night vision, go with a light and an Eotech. The light will help ID your target and the Eotech puts the dot on target without giving away your position. Also since the EO dot is always above the rifle, you don;t have to search down range for a dot.
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 10:20:53 PM EST
If it were to be used in a defensive situation (ESPECIALLY firing from the hip---you aren't serious, are you? NOONE who wants to actually hit anything fires from the hip), the time you spend trying to steer the dot onto it's intended target, is the same amount of time the other guy is spending filling you full of holes, because HE used his sights.
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 10:26:26 PM EST
A $30 laser will not hold zero on an AR for long if at all! Remember that first. Especailly one for an air gun. Lasers are fine for fun but and EOTECH or Aimpoint is far better in the real world. Hip shooting is fun as well but you better be 100% sure you can hit anything with it. I would not rely on shooting anything I cannot verify in my sights/scopes when in a life threatening situation!
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 10:37:22 PM EST
Lasers are very much a niche device, more so than just about anything else you could clamp to your AR. Lasers can be good for use with gas masks, NV goggles and scopes, and they can even be used in an emergency, where you can't line up your sights properly. However, a good laser that will actually take a lickin and keep on tickin and hold its zero will cost you at tge very least ten times more than the BSA unit, if not 100 times more. Unless you have loads of cash to spend, it should be low on your priority list. A good weapons light will cost as much or a little less than a quality. useable laser. A very good flashlight should be a priority on your list. Instead of wasting $30 on a cheap laser, use that money toward saving up for a weapon light. Next on the list is optics. An EOTech is an excellent choice and the Aimpoint is another good choice. After that, you can start with the really, really cool stuff.
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 7:04:24 AM EST
Spend your money on some GOOD training from a well respected Trainer (we're talking Giles Stock, Jim Crews, Pat Rogers, Louis Awerbuck, Randy Caine types). That will be worth far more than a laser (or even a dot type sight). Giles tuned us well enought that with blocked sights (tape over optics so you're looking at masking tape up close) we were getting consistant COM hits (and fairly small groups!) at 7yards no problem - from low ready to fire in a second. Get the training forget the gadgets till then. After you've gotten the training decide what you'll need (generally a light, then a red-dot type optic tops the list).
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 8:23:42 AM EST
Lasers are useless for civilians and not much use to police or military. The only exception i've heard of is the lead guy on a swat team shooting around one of those bunker shields with his handgun. Negatives are as mentioned you train with something then it had better be something that you can count on using for real, weight on the front end, real estate on the front that could be put to better use with a good light, tape switchs and crap in the way. Now if you want a toy to play with then fine, i understand that, just don't fool yourself that it is more than that and don't keep it on your social gun. Of course if you can hit a 3x5 card at 15 meters consistently from the hip then you don't need a laser, an eotech, a scope or even sights!
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