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Posted: 6/5/2009 8:47:51 PM EST
Do one piece scope mounts need lapping? I was wondering if the fact that they are one piece would preclude the need to lap. - Phil
Link Posted: 6/5/2009 9:38:37 PM EST
Can't hurt to check. Especially the upper half fit/alignment.
Link Posted: 6/5/2009 9:59:13 PM EST
Just wondering if I need to buy the tools or not. Thanks. - Phil
Link Posted: 6/6/2009 12:38:14 PM EST
I think it's best to use the tools. Here is the page from Brownells (but Midway USA sells a similar product): http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=833&title=SCOPE%20ALIGNMENT%20RODS

OR you could use wood dowling at the correct OD of your scope. But you'll need to believe that the dents in the wood that the rings will make, as you tighten the screws, are important and will point to what needs to be fixed! I prefer the tools because the rods won't get damaged during normal use, and it's really easy to see if the points line up. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 6/6/2009 1:10:53 PM EST
I considered the wood dowel as well, but I am using a 30mm tube, and no dowel is that size I can find. Besides, I am with you on reliability of that method.

I have trouble with the points lining up idea. The points can "line up" or touch even the two bars are at 90 degrees to one another. The rings could be anywhere and with some movement of the rings, the points could always line up. This site explains it better than I. As such, I think his product's make more sense.


- Phil
Link Posted: 6/7/2009 8:50:37 AM EST
Excellent thinking, Phil!

I was going to recommend turning the alignment rods around to make them butt up, but you already found that information! Another technique, in addition, is to use small levels. There are some that are machined flat on the bottom and magnetic based as well (for use on steel rings and receivers, not aluminum scopes.) I bought a set from Midway USA that was branded "Wheeler." I think I paid 9 or 10 dollars for them. This was a while back.

It's always been my opinion that the best thing you can do for a scope is to properly mount it. Most people don't realize just how much even a small deflection in the tube affects the light path. We use a general rule of them that a .001 inch of deviation equals 1 MOA; .002 inch equals 2 MOA, etc. And there are further consequences of bending the tube that people don't realize, so as having to use so much adjustment that the erector tube (this is the inner tube) will actually make contact with the inside of the main tube during the recoil event because they're so close to each other. That will kill a scope in a matter of a few hundred rounds.

You're on your way to doing it right!
Link Posted: 6/9/2009 10:54:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/9/2009 10:54:49 AM EST by Phil3]
I agree on the sensitivity of the scope to mounting. I am no expert, but I would want to be extra sure the scope tube and innards are well supported in a stress free way. I got to thinking and recalled that various scope reviews sometimes report inconsistent MOA adjustment range for s specific scope. The reviews can differ from one another as well as what the manufacturer says. I wonder if these variations are in any way connected to scope mounting stresses introduced by the people testing the scope?

- Phil
Link Posted: 6/10/2009 8:56:11 AM EST
There's a number of reasons why reviews do and don't differ.
Reasons for different review findings: using different weapons, using different ammunition, using different methods to take the measurements.

Reasons for the same review findings, but still saying that the magazines are great (shameless ass kissing) : the basic story line for the article was developed by a staff, but shared among a number of by-lines for a number of titled publications.

Individual scopes will vary just as individual weapons do. For scopes the geometry of placing the erector tube is critical (assembly) and the machining of the teeth in the drums of the adjusting screws is, in my opinion, not giving enough importance by the actual manufacturer. (The old style infinite adjustment screws don't have this problem [non-clicking screws,] but no one wants this type of screw anymore.) These parts normally come from a sub-contractor for the manufacturer. The buy thousands upon thousands at a time, and there are bad ones mixed in with the good ones. Contrast this way with how Schmidt and Bender do it: say they are going to produce a run of 800 units for model X; each scope needs two screws=1600 screws; they buy or produce 4 times that number and select the best ones for the production run; The unused screws are then sold down the line (they're still good, just not good enough for this specific run.)

The funny thing about bending the scope because of improper mounting is that if the scope was put together properly with good parts, the scope will still allow shots to group consistently. However, you as the user will not be able to adjust this group to move it to the center of the target. In other words, you run out of "adjustment."

Phil, I can't tell you how happy I am that you are taking the time to learn this. At the previous company I worked for, I saw scopes that were so bent they looked like skis. The bend was visible to the eye. (Normally I measured the eccentric movement against a scale for suspect scopes.) Good Shooting!
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 12:12:28 PM EST
Thanks for the reply. I ordered and received Burris Signature Zee rings which should eliminate scope marks and alignment issues. Ordered these with a 1/2" riser rail. But, just not sure how well suited these are for an AR15. There are a Weaver mount, have no floating side piece to clamp down on the rail (the ring just bends in a but under screw pressure), they use a small screw with slot head. I like the idea, just not 100% sold on the execution. On the other hand, having to buy lapping tools, have scope ring scars is not something I like either. Looks like this is the best for managing scope alignment.


- Phil
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 3:31:14 PM EST
Larue specifically says no lapping needed on their mounts. Other brands I don't know; I would check with the manufacturer.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 4:56:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By Wild_Man:
Larue specifically says no lapping needed on their mounts. Other brands I don't know; I would check with the manufacturer.

I agree. Get a Larue and don't worry about it.

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