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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 6/14/2003 1:17:10 PM EDT
I have been using Lake City for a long time now and I think its ok but what I really like about it is the HUGE fireball it produces out of my Bushmaster M4 (no break just plain crowned barrel). I shoot other brands of ammo including South African, Seller and Bellot, Winchester White box, PMC. None of these create a fireball the size of the the LAKE CITY. The LAKE CITY is also noticbly louder and deeper sounding than all the rest. I love it when its a little cloudy and the lite isnt so great and I tear off a long string of this stuff at the range. Heads turn and people begin to stare at me. Its kinda cool. They ask me questions like is that a .308 or whats wrong with your rifle? Have any of you had similar experiences with this ammo. I like it and will continue to shoot it even though its a little more costly.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 2:33:00 PM EDT
It's truly a beautiful thing isn't it.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 4:28:43 PM EDT
I shot LC XM193 in my Bushmaster M4 w/14.5" barrel with A2 combat brake in a tactical rifle match in the rain 2 weeks ago and the guys in the squad nicknamed it "the howitzer"!
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 4:59:45 PM EDT
I've found that the LC XM193 is loaded 100 fps hotter than Winchester Q3131A. I think they powder they use doesn't have the same flash suppressant properties at Q3131A either because the LC does make a huge fireball you can notice in day time. I get about 3100 to 3200 fps from Q3131A and 3200 to 3300 fps from LC XM193. (20" bushmaster). I buy both, but the Winchester would be better for SHTF ammo if you don't want your position to be given away.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 5:09:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VonOnken: I have been using Lake City for a long time now and I think its ok but what I really like about it is the HUGE fireball it produces out of my Bushmaster M4 (no break just plain crowned barrel). I shoot other brands of ammo including South African, Seller and Bellot, Winchester White box, PMC. None of these create a fireball the size of the the LAKE CITY. The LAKE CITY is also noticbly louder and deeper sounding than all the rest. I love it when its a little cloudy and the lite isnt so great and I tear off a long string of this stuff at the range. Heads turn and people begin to stare at me. Its kinda cool. They ask me questions like is that a .308 or whats wrong with your rifle? Have any of you had similar experiences with this ammo. I like it and will continue to shoot it even though its a little more costly.
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How old are you? [;)] If this is your point in shooting, you need a Mosin Nagant Model 44. Most people are more concerned with what happens [b]downrange[/b] and in the weapon when the shoot. Anyway, don't mind me. I'm feeling a little surly today.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 7:39:08 PM EDT
Worst fireball I've seen on one of my AR15s was while using the XM2015 powder with 40grain varmint bullets. Was shooting my 14.5 inch barreled gun with AK74 brake, at night the darn bloom is about 1 1/2 feet wide by 2 feet long. Quite gross really.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 7:45:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Q-Man: I think they powder they use doesn't have the same flash suppressant properties at Q3131A either because the LC does make a huge fireball you can notice in day time.
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There is No flash retardant in either ammo. LC might be a tad hotter which would account for the velocity diff as well as the bigger flash.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 9:13:03 PM EDT
I just picked up 1000 rds and I was amazed at the fireball myself. From what I have learned reloading, doesn't this mean the powder isnt burning fast enough? Thus, causing a flash of burning powder to follow the bullet... Prosise
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 4:32:57 AM EDT
The flash isn't burning powder, it is incandescant gasses from the powder burning. It shows that there is still a high pressure wave of superheated gasses and probably a lot of burning powder as well. Watch for "tracers" in and out of the flash; those are the powder grains. It does demonstarte a loss of velocity from the ideal, efficient use of the powder, yes. A longer barrel should give a little higher velocity.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 7:45:50 AM EDT
[b]
There is No flash retardant in either ammo. LC might be a tad hotter which would account for the velocity diff as well as the bigger flash.
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[/b] Are there other makes of ammo that contain flash retardant besides Black Hills ammo? Thanks
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 9:32:18 AM EDT
I really like the LC. Its fun as hell to shoot. It could be a little more consistent though. I find that the average grouping is not as good as Blackhills and Seller and Bellot. Its fairly clean although most of the cases show some signs of tarnish on them. I would not shoot this through my Model 700VSS but I use it on my Galil and HK93 all the time without any problems at all. The flash hider on these rifles does diminish the overall effect of the blast but it still sounds very different than any other ammo I use. As for OHIO and his question I am 32 and I am concerned about what happens downrange and the weapon. My point of the post was to see if anyone else had a similar experience. Besides sometimes it is fun to just let loose and make as much noise as possible while not caring about being all that accurate. After all its my money and my rifle.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 9:40:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By uglygun: Worst fireball I've seen on one of my AR15s was while using the XM2015 powder with 40grain varmint bullets. Was shooting my 14.5 inch barreled gun with AK74 brake, at night the darn bloom is about 1 1/2 feet wide by 2 feet long. Quite gross really.
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oh, that's nothing.... my dissipator (before adding a CavComp) with XM193 would produce a 2x3 foot flame in broad daylight here in sunny AZ. there is a video of me shooting a match in the AZ hometown forum where you can overhear the spectators commenting on the flash. i referred to it as my "secondary close range flame weapon." the CavComp disperses it but its still there...
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 11:08:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By VonOnken: As for OHIO and his question I am 32 and I am concerned about what happens downrange and the weapon. My point of the post was to see if anyone else had a similar experience. Besides sometimes it is fun to just let loose and make as much noise as possible while not caring about being all that accurate. After all its my money and my rifle.
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Yep, sure is. I meant it when I said that you would enjoy a Mosin M44 with surplus ammo. If you are not recoil sensitive this would be a real hoot; fireball 3-4 foot log and as big around visible at full noon. LC has always had a rep for loud, flashy shooting.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 2:51:59 PM EDT
Hell yeah! I just got back from the range...I was shooting a bunch of Lake City outta my 16" Bushy...love that awesome flash and boom! As usual, some guy came over and said, "what the hell are you shooting outta that thing???" Ya gotta love it!!! [}:D]
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:00:35 PM EDT
OHIO, Are the Mosin 44's a mini flame thrower? Is it because of the ammo or the barrel length? With my M4 and LC ammo there is also a great deal of heat associated with the flash. It isnt hot enough to do any damage but the first few rounds are a little suprising. I wonder what LC ammo would look like in a AR-15 pistol or 10" sub gun. Now that would be cool.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:25:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VonOnken: OHIO, Are the Mosin 44's a mini flame thrower? Is it because of the ammo or the barrel length? With my M4 and LC ammo there is also a great deal of heat associated with the flash. It isnt hot enough to do any damage but the first few rounds are a little suprising. I wonder what LC ammo would look like in a AR-15 pistol or 10" sub gun. Now that would be cool.
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It's a 30-06 class cartridge in a rifle with a 19" barrel. The miltary ammunition is optimized for +30" machine gun use. Super bright and large; and the boom has brought people out of the clubhouse 200 yards away. Lots of fun, and people don't want you near them on the line. BTW, I was more of an ass in the first reply than I meant to be; I am sorry for that.
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 8:10:08 AM EDT
Something must be wrong with my rifle or ammo. I shoot that stuff all the time and I never see any flash at all. Whats wrong? That stupid Vortex flash suppressor wont let me see any of it!!! [rofl2]
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 8:51:44 AM EDT
You must have gotten one of those "flash eliminators" by accident. You should ask for your money back; you got ripped off. See all of the fun you're missing? Larry
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 12:52:35 PM EDT
You should try shooting LC with that darn mini-Y comp Brake BM puts on its M4s. Talk about getting everyone at the range looking at you with an angry eye. And the hot un burned powder/smoke flying back in your face is really crapy. I had to change the brake on mine. Just could note stand the thought of not using LC. John
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 7:19:17 PM EDT
My page at http://www.geocities.com/optimus_84 I got pics of a the side of my Bushy and bump fire vids w/ a nice flash.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 7:17:53 PM EDT
its all about the FIRE the fireball I see from my 16 inch barreled bushmaster is huge and you can feel the heat too its really noticeable any time of day i wish i can get a pic of it quite impressive i might add
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 7:58:52 PM EDT
Very Cool movie Scooby223, [url]www.geocities.com/optimus_84[/url]
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 8:33:36 PM EDT
I just ordered 500rds of this stuff. Can't wait to give it a try :)
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 8:48:44 PM EDT
It does generate a lot of looks/questions at the range. Last week I mixed half XM193 and half Q3131A in a mag. There was a noticeable difference when I hit the Q3131A. My son even asked me what was the matter with the rifle. It is a lot of fun to shoot.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 8:57:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2003 8:59:11 PM EDT by Luke308]
Couple questions - What is the difference between the XM193 and the Q3131A? looked around (probably not enough...) and didn't find anything... Secondly: does the large muzzle flash cause any problems when shooting at night by washing out your night vision (not goggles, just your ol' rods and cones[:)]) Where's the best ("best" defined as cheap nuff for my budget...) place to buy it?
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 9:03:56 PM EDT
Federal XM193 and Winchester Q3131(a) are not the same, but they should be close enough to the same to not really try decide which is which. They're loaded to the same specs. Yes, shooting that stuff in low light will flat out blind you. You will not be able to see. A big flash may be cool to see, but its not something you really want in defensive ammo. Only way to really avoid it is a flash suppressor.
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 1:29:26 PM EDT
I love XM193 and so does my rifle My Glocks also happen to love Speed Gold Dot big muzzle flash there too I was scaring the two people on either side of me today at the indoor range who were shooting 22 target guns sounded like this plink, plink, BOOM!!! whoa what was that!!!
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 11:28:33 PM EDT
HeHeHe just bought 500rds of XM193. Can't wait to try it out now, maybe I'll take my AR and both of my M44's out to the range with me to do a little comparison.
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