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Posted: 5/20/2005 5:48:17 AM EDT
doggone it !!!!!! i did not intend to cause a firestorm about the LMT, but some of you must admit SOME LMTs have a problem, OK ?

and NO my "friend" is not 48th.., although 48th is what I consider a "friend".., my friend in the post IS is a gunsmith who has extensive experience in converting gas operating systems uppers to piston opperated uppers. so please do not pile on 48th or anyone else, i wish i had a chance to reply to some of the posts before the lock, & i do support the lock !!

as for the troll comments, they are humorous & funny.., my experience with the AR-15 & M16.., welllllll, they go all the way back to 1963......., when i met Mr. AR himself at a shooting range in Southern Calif.

if any one wants speciffics, drop me an IM, i am really a warm fuzzy huggable person & i love my AR-15, starting with Colt, Bushy and more Colts
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 9:32:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 10:17:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LeitnerWise:
The Group Buy conversion process is well under way now and a number of uppers have been converted, tested, cleaned and packaged for shipping. All of these uppers are built within the tolerance range of the Colt Technical Data Package as the LW piston system was also designed to meet the same tolerance range; these conversions have been straight forward and simple to carry out.

Unfortunately, a number of uppers received for conversion have been found to have been manufactured outside the tolerance range of the TDP. Of those, some have minor and correctable issues which can be addressed by assembling the components correctly, others, and it seems that this group is in the majority, are so far out of tolerance that the only way to have the system operate is to replace the barrel and front sight assembly with our own which meet the TDP.

The decision, of course, is the owners as to whether we return the upper or whether we address the problem and return them a product which is built to the correct specifications. We are on hand to answer any specific problems or questions directly.

Anyone who hasn't yet sent in their upper for conversion, should check that the front sight is not canted as if it is, the only way that the upper can be converted is to replace the barrel assembly. In some instances, if the manufacturer has used roll pins rather than taper pins, we are able to correct the canted sight by converting the front sight retention to taper pin as per mil-spec. In some instances, the front sight has been bored at an angle to accept the gas tube or crossed drilled in the wrong place, both of which can be corrected by replacing the front sight at a cost of around $14.00 or so.

Once again, the piston system was designed to operate within the tolerance range of the TDP and will only work on uppers that have been manufactured in accordance with those dimensions. We cannot alter our parts to work with out of spec products.





Do you typically not have any tolerance issues with factory Colt uppers?
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 10:59:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 5:28:09 AM EDT
""The Group Buy conversion process is well under way now and a number of uppers have been converted, tested, cleaned and packaged for shipping.""

this is really great news for all who sent in their upper for conversion, i know that i will be as "giddy" as a virgin on prom night when i get mine
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 5:49:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LeitnerWise:
Every Colt upper we have converted so far (military and commercial) has been within the tolerance range called for on the TDP. As such, the conversion is straight forward. We are NOT saying that other manufacturers are not building within this tolerance range, we are saying that we have seen some out of spec issues on some upper receivers made by manufacturers other than Colt.



I understand. Thanks!
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 6:25:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2005 7:58:58 AM EDT by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By Buttplate:
doggone it !!!!!! i did not intend to cause a firestorm about the LMT, but some of you must admit SOME LMTs have a problem, OK ?




You did not intend to start a shit storm, yet you repost it again? Even after you saw the responses to the first thread? So let me get this straight; a "Friend" of LeitnerWise just decides to post about a "problem" with a competitor TWICE? Maybe we should go ask Bushmaster about Colt or vise versa.


This crap is absolutely ridiculous.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 7:43:25 AM EDT
Tagged with no additional comment.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 8:07:49 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 10:32:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/23/2005 9:06:23 PM EDT by Variablebinary]

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By Buttplate:
doggone it !!!!!! i did not intend to cause a firestorm about the LMT, but some of you must admit SOME LMTs have a problem, OK ?




You did not intend to start a shit storm, yet you repost it again? Even after you saw the responses to the first thread? So let me get this straight; a "Friend" of LeitnerWise just decides to post about a "problem" with a competitor TWICE? Maybe we should go ask Bushmaster about Colt or vise versa.


This crap is absolutely ridiculous.



+1
Threads are locked for a reason so you make a part 2 for what purpose. Allow me to be the first to offically call you a

Link Posted: 5/23/2005 5:54:36 AM EDT
did your mommy take that photo of you ?
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 10:21:05 AM EDT
Seemed to me that the thread was locked because of the personal insults hurling about which weren't coming from the author and were not related to the context of the thread. If you ignore the hype, the original intent seems to be about differences in manufacturing and QA from different manufacturers which is always useful knowledge.
HFG
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 10:45:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HipFiredGun:
Seemed to me that the thread was locked because of the personal insults hurling about which weren't coming from the author and were not related to the context of the thread. If you ignore the hype, the original intent seems to be about differences in manufacturing and QA from different manufacturers which is always useful knowledge.
HFG



you are exactly correct my friend, thank you for pointing that out to some folks who chose to ignore that fact of QA &/or lack of it.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 2:52:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/23/2005 2:54:42 PM EDT by mikeinkc]
Actually just about every LMT thread for the past 6 months has been locked. Wonder why??
By the way, I love my LMT stuff.

Once again IBTL+1
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 3:11:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/23/2005 3:12:20 PM EDT by FL-AR15]
With all the BS from people talking crap about LMT but don't have one, you would think I wouldn't go out and build a complete LMT, but I am/did. And low and behold LMT doesn't need a QA dept. There stuff is made spot on from the buttom up.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 9:11:21 PM EDT
I made comments on how I was disappointed in my canted front sight bock, the overall fit and finish. The install of pins with a rusty nail, the flash hider that looks like it was put on with a loose adjustable wrench. I thought it was servicable for my intended purpose. I was wrong. But, other than the canted block, it wasn't that bad.

Would I have sent it back for a refund? Yes. I didn't have time to as I needed it converted ASAP for R&D on the midlength ARM-R and the LW low-pro gas block. So now it has an LW barrel on it. I will sell the barrel cheap to anyone who wants it. Probably wont get any takers.

LMT makes the DSA FAL receivers which are the bomb. When I met with LMT, their machine work was exceptional. If I did not get this upper direct from them, I would have thought for sure it was a home build. When I discussed it with a major dealer here in S. Texas who stocks everything, he told me he was also finding QA issues and was cancelling his current order until he found out they fixed whatever was going wrong. He has never seen these issues before with them.

Why did I get LMT? Because their uppers, barrels, etc are supposed to reflect the M4 Tech package and I did not want to spend an extra $400 for colt and just end up trashing it doing T&E. The most important measurement was the receiver rail height. We have megas and bushmasters and all are slightly different by less than a hair. The LMT was preported to have been made off the Colt Tech Data package. THAT is why I bought LMT.

Sometimes people around here act like we are attacking their Gucci purse. Save your queer eye for the straight guy crap for someone else. Its like kids at high school laughing at a kid who doesn't have latest NBA player endorsed sneakers. Would LMT react to such QI complaints in such a juvenile way calling people names and questioning their knowledge or motives? Hell no. They would want to know about it and correct it to make their customers happy, or scale things back a bit.

LMT trash thread? I think not. Stick to sneakers or gucci purses, grow some pubes and start acting like adults. Buttplate does not claim to be "AR15.com politically correct", but from my PM with him in which I apologised profusely thinking he was victem of my big mouth about my upper, I found out he was shooting AR's and M16's before I was born. It turns out he got his info from someone completely different. And why should I apologise to him on behalf of bunch of faggy little internet bullies who spend all their time exchanging their brand name quips, and jumping peoples shit everytime someone says something they don't like about their favorite logo'ed rifle. I notice the same internet ninjas get pretty meek and quiet at tac shoots or schools when in the presence of anyone with any life experience, military or otherwise. Its you guys that give this board a bad name while guys like HFG who can actually offer something don't wade into your pillow fights in pink frilly panties as it is not worth their time. So much for actually learning something.

Let me reiterate. LMT can make a fine product. I own several LMT products. This upper I bought did not measure up to the other stuff I have owned from them. They have manufacturing capabilities beyond most. Go get a "insert brand here" tattoo on your forehead, so we know when we can or can't talk about any product offering. If your machismo is so tied into your brand loyalty, then let us all know upfront.

I just wasted a shitload of my life wading in here. It aint for you guys that equate your post count with your testosterone level. It is out of respect for Buttplate.
Link Posted: 5/23/2005 9:12:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/23/2005 10:05:48 PM EDT by Variablebinary]
Thought I might share some ZEN sent to me in an IM from ButtPirate...err...I mean Buttplate


how about fuck you


So not only are you a troll, but a moron. Thanks for sharing the stupidity though, but save the secret notes with naughty words for gym class with the other teenagers.

Say it isnt so when a mature person equipped with valuable knowledge worth sharing would say "How about fuck you" in an IM

You know what, I've disagreed with Va_Dinger, _DR, Forest, mongo001, and cgv69 on many things, and never once have they responded with a "fuck you" IM, and as a result, I disagree with them, but know that I can still gain valuable information from each of them on certain products, brands and features. People like them make arfcom a valuable information source for all AR15 owners.

What has Buttpirate given besides locked threads and unsubstantiated rumors against certain brands. Respect is earned. Troy is worthy of respect. Lumpy is worthy or respect (sarcasm and all). Buttpirate gets a bag full of my fresh turds until he learns not to troll and not send rude IM's

And let’s not forget


did your mommy take that photo of you ?


If that doesn’t reek of adolescence….
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 4:43:04 AM EDT
""I just wasted a shitload of my life wading in here. It aint for you guys that equate your post count with your testosterone level. It is out of respect for Buttplate.""

Thank you sir !!

Link Posted: 5/24/2005 4:57:22 AM EDT
And let’s not forget



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
did your mommy take that photo of you ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




If that doesn’t reek of adolescence….

i guess you failed to recognize the smilie ? had you acted like an adult & addressed the issue rather than start a personal attack on me you would have gotten an adult type reply, but you chose to be THE troll in this instance, so live with IT my friend.here ""Buttpirate gets a bag full of my fresh turds..."

if you care to continue your personal attacks on me on this public forum i will request your posting priviledges be suspended, OK ? IMs are for flaming & personal attacks, most likely somthing you fail to recognize, since you never read the TOS !!

have a great day my friend.,, you need a few
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:06:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2005 5:07:23 AM EDT by HipFiredGun]
Variablebinary; seems to me that Buttplate responded in kind at an intellectual level you would understand based on your postings, ergo, if you don't like the way he's talking to you, moderate your tone with him; you'll find that you are treated with respect if you respect others. Personally, reading what you've posted before, I consider this beneath you. Sometimes it's like herding cats - read, contribute and learn, that's what this forum is all about.
HFG
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:38:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 48thHighlander:

Why did I get LMT? Because their uppers, barrels, etc are supposed to reflect the M4 Tech package and I did not want to spend an extra $400 for colt and just end up trashing it doing T&E.



Where did the idea that LMT had the M4 TDP and was using it for commerical purposes come from?
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 3:21:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2005 4:24:19 PM EDT by JLM]

Originally Posted By Ekie:

Originally Posted By 48thHighlander:

Why did I get LMT? Because their uppers, barrels, etc are supposed to reflect the M4 Tech package and I did not want to spend an extra $400 for colt and just end up trashing it doing T&E.



Where did the idea that LMT had the M4 TDP and was using it for commerical purposes come from?



Who knows. The do NOT have the TDP.

48th, I loved the Gucci purse comment. Its spot on too. People form these odd personal attachments
to shit they spend a lot of money on, and then for some reason take it personally when they find out
there are 'issues' with said product. You aren't the only one that had a canted FSB, trust me. Since they do not test fire for mechanical zero windage, its no wonder. BM had the same problem years ago, got smart, and started laser boresighting their uppers.


variablebinary, instead of some unsubstantiated 'rumours' how would you like to hear it from the horses mouth? The likely cause for those that have had canted FSB's on their LMT upper's, and the reason why they won't accept Paul's conversion. From Chip Witt, the 'quality' manager at LMT.


WE TEST FIRE FOR FUNTCION ONLY NOT FOR ZERO. THAT WOULD DRIVE THE COST UP CONSIDERABLY IF WE DID TEST FOR AND SET ZERO. I DON'T KNOW THAT I WOULD CONSIDER ANYTHING EXCESSIVE UNLESS YOU RAN OUT OF ROOM ON THE SIGHT BASE. IF YOU LOOK AT THE SIGHT BASE AND THE PEEP SIGHT YOU WILL NOTICE THAT THERE IS OVER A 1/4" OF TOTAL TRAVEL AVAILABLE. BECAUSE OF TOLERANCE STACK UP ISSUES WITH THE DESIGN, THAT IS THE TRAVEL THAT WAS NEEDED TO ADDRESS ZEROING ISSUES WITH THE AR15/M16 DESIGN.

RESJPECFULLY,

CHIP



Well now, translated into English: as of last fall when I got this email, they did NOT consider any amount of windage excessive. In other words if you had to crank your rear sight all the way to the left
to get mecanical zero because your FSB was canted, then so be it! Too bad that's at direct odds with the .gov M4 accurarcy requirements, which you can find on this very website. I actually had to point out that requirement TO them, before they would issue me an RGA number. How's that for customer service? Would it drive the cost up THAT much? Apparently not, since BM is doing it now.

Moving on to how the FSB's are attached to the barrel, again from the horses mouth:


THERE IS QUITE A LARGE AMOUNT OF TOLERANCE FOR THE FRONT SIGHT POST DIAMETERS TO THE FORGING ON A FRONT SIGHT. THE MACHINED SURFACES AND THE DIAMETERS ARE ALL HELD TO CLOSE TOLERANCES TO EACH OTHER. THE GAS HOLES IN THE BARRELS ARE ALL DRILLED WITH THE SAME FIXTURE WHICH LOCATES ON THE INDEX PIN. THE SAME IS TRUE FOR THE FIXTURE THAT IS USED FOR MOUNTING THE FRONT SIGHT.
RESPECTFULLY,
CHIP WITT



and....


WE SHOULD HAVE IT TORN DOWN AND LOOKED AT BY THE END OF THE WEEK. WE SUSPECT THE SIGHT WAS PUT ON CANTED. ALTHOUGHT WE ARE NOT SURE HOW THEY CAN DO THIS CONSIDERING OUR FIXTURE. I WILL LET YOU KNOW WHAT WE FIND OUT.
CHIP



What does that tell us? Obviously drilling the pins for the FSB is an automated or semiautomated process. So, the question then becomes: how many barrels went thru that fixture before they realized the fixture was misaligned, and how long did it take them to realize it was misaligned? Since 48th and I both had
canted FSB's, the answer is obviously more than TWO. I highly doubt that they caught onto it during one day's production. And it could easily have gone on even longer than that.


I'd be REAL interested to have LW gauge my replacement upper, and see what the results are, and if the conversion could be carried out satisfactorily. To be fair, the windage problem on upper #2 is nowhere near as excessive. On upper number 1, it was shooting 3 inches to the right at 25m.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 3:42:21 PM EDT
Buttplate- it's one thing for you to let a bunch of us think you are an idiot, but then you go and start a second thread to prove it? Did your mommy not hold you enough when you were a kid? Or, did your uncle hold you too much?
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 4:10:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2005 4:42:18 PM EDT by Va_Dinger]
I wonder why LMT gets to use actual M4 feedramps and advertise the fact without getting into trouble? While other AR manufacturers get sued for even using the name "M4". This should keep the LMT trolls busy for awhile.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 4:54:18 PM EDT



Originally Posted By HipFiredGun:
you'll find that you are treated with respect if you respect others




Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:03:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2005 5:49:00 PM EDT by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By DrMark:


Originally Posted By HipFiredGun:
you'll find that you are treated with respect if you respect others










ARFCOM would not be same without one "Colt Kool Aid Drinker" inspired anti-LMT thread a week. I guess it took Buttplate two tries to get what he wanted in the first place; another moron pissing contest.


JLM - How in God's green earth can you even attempt to twist Mr Witt's words this badly? All I read is somebody trying to explain a problem to you. Yet, you turn into a negative? Do you honestly think you have credability in an LMT thread considering your past? One or two canted sights on all of ARFCOM does not mean the end of the world or that company has problem. Hell, you rant and rave about Colt quality all the time. I've personally held a NIB Colt 6400C with a badly canted FSB. You even know who owned it. What does this say about Colt? Does Colt suck? Should all of the Kool Aid Drinkers run out a sell their safe queens? My God, give this crap a rest.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 8:02:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2005 8:21:11 PM EDT by JLM]

JLM - How in God's green earth can you even attempt to twist Mr Witt's words this badly?


Twist what? He plainly stated that he considered NO amount of windage excessive, which appears to be the root problem vis a vis people getting their LMT uppers converted to LW's gas piston. Which, coincidentally is what this thread is about. It's not about M4 feedramps in case you were wondering. You're argument seems to be that since Lewis has the M4 feed ramps that they............what exactly?

Its plain English. At the time he considered NO amount of Windage excessive excluding running out of room on the RSB. Which is CLEARLY out of milspec. Jesus, you'd think he know that without me having to tell him that, since he's......the QUALITY MANAGER? I HAD TO QUOTE THE RELEVANT
DOCUMENTS TO THEM TO GET AN RGA. They didn't say "Oh jeah, you obviously have a problem, send it right back."

Jeah, I've said buy a Colt. So has Pat Rogers. I don't see you pissing in his cheerio's about it.

I guess if you are willing to believe that my FSB, and 48ths were drilled consecutively on the same day, and that the fixture was immediately recalibrated, then YES there are only TWO canted LMT's out there To believe that you must be drinking the Milan made kool-aide.

The fact that Colt, BM, blah blah XYZ has/has had problems HAS NOTHING TO DO with the issue being discussed HERE. Its just a distraction device, because you have a love affair with your gucci purse. I doubt if you called Colt, Armalite, FN, or Bushmaster they would tell you that they don't consider any amount of Windage to be excessive.

Fact is, as I understand it, LW cannot perform their conversion on the Lewis guns with canted FSB's, because they are OUT OF SPEC.

Its just mind bogglingly IRONIC that you would quote HFG, because he knows more about Lewis than everyone else put together in this thread. I suspect he'll be along shortly to straighten you all out, hopefully before you guys can turn this thread into another flame war, derail it, and get it locked.


What did he say in his email? That it was basically impossible for them to install the FSB crooked, due to the type of fixture they use to drill the pin. That should be apparent if you visualize how the fixture works. If the fixture does indeed index on the index pin at TDC on the top of the barrel, then the pin holes should be drilled correctly, at a right angle to the index pin, ie 90 degree's. Well, apparently the impossible happens there in Milan. I'd like to see it myself someday, except that I don't need to, as I have reliable info from somebody that has, and that actually knows what the hell he is talking about. And no, he doesn't work for Colt either He's posted about these types of QA issues before, and has been ignored. In fact, you just quoted him above, see the irony yet?

You might find it interesting to know that I had a BM upper that had: guess what: a CANTED FSB? What do you think they told me? Do you think they told me that they didn't consider that it had an excessive windage problem? Do you think they told me that they were not sure how it happened due to their magical drilling fixture? Do you think that I had to educated THEM as to why it was out of spec? In fact, they told me what the spec was, and that it was clearly outside it. No, they replaced it, no questions asked. And now they boresight them with a laser before going out the door.

Do you even know how many Colts I currently own? Its an easy number to remember: ZERO. So, you can lay off with the juvenile "Colt Kool Aide Drinker" arugument because it doesn't wash.

Link Posted: 5/24/2005 8:39:01 PM EDT
bla bla bla...

This thread is completely off topic subject.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 10:03:54 PM EDT
FL-AR15................Go Cyber stud go! Go tell mom!
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 10:28:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2005 10:59:55 PM EDT by Va_Dinger]
Wow, you have truly gone off the deep end. You have to be one of the most delusional ARFCOM members I have ever seen. To call you strange and a little wierd would be an understatement.


Originally Posted By JLM:
Twist what? He plainly stated that he considered NO amount of windage excessive, which appears to be the root problem vis a vis people getting their LMT uppers converted to LW's gas piston. Which, coincidentally is what this thread is about. It's not about M4 feedramps in case you were wondering. You're argument seems to be that since Lewis has the M4 feed ramps that they............what exactly?

Its plain English. At the time he considered NO amount of Windage excessive excluding running out of room on the RSB. Which is CLEARLY out of milspec. Jesus, you'd think he know that without me having to tell him that, since he's......the QUALITY MANAGER? I HAD TO QUOTE THE RELEVANT
DOCUMENTS TO THEM TO GET AN RGA. They didn't say "Oh jeah, you obviously have a problem, send it right back."



Where exactly does Mr. Witt state that he does not consider ANY amount of excess windage to be a problem? It looks to me like you are merely reading in exactly what you want for your agenda. Oh and if you think for one second I believe you schooled Mr. Witt on a damn thing, you are in need of professional help.


Originally Posted By JLM:
Jeah, I've said buy a Colt. So has Pat Rogers. I don't see you pissing in his cheerio's about it.



Yes, Pat Rogers likes Colt. He also raves about LMT. Odd that you seem to only pick out the information that fits and leave out what does not. Since Mr. Rogers seems to like LMT products; what does that say about about your trolling? It also shows just what your opinion is worth considering you don't even own a Colt.


Originally Posted By JLM:
I guess if you are willing to believe that my FSB, and 48ths were drilled consecutively on the same day, and that the fixture was immediately recalibrated, then YES there are only TWO canted LMT's out there To believe that you must be drinking the Milan made kool-aide.



So based on only TWO (Not 10,20,100, or 200) canted FSB stories, one of which comes from an LMT competitor you are stating all LMT FSB's have a problem? Not even you can be this delusional. This is nothing but baseless sesationalizing. Funny, every LMT I own has been sighted with less than a dozen rounds.

Trust me, I have no personal love for LMT. I get involved with these threads because I cannot stand Internet experts who spread BS becuase they love to see their words on an internet forum. I also praise them because I actually own three and they have all performed Flawlessly. My opinion is based on personal experience with their products. I just went through a Blackwater class with my LMT. Guess what; I had zero problems. My opinion is not based on mere sensationalized rumors started on an internet forum, contrary to yours.


Originally Posted By JLM:
The fact that Colt, BM, blah blah XYZ has/has had problems HAS NOTHING TO DO with the issue being discussed HERE. Its just a distraction device, because you have a love affair with your gucci purse. I doubt if you called Colt, Armalite, FN, or Bushmaster they would tell you that they don't consider any amount of Windage to be excessive.



I truly love the moronic "Gucci Purse" statements. Especially coming from a Colt fan. They highlight just how arrogant and off base you really are. Personally, I thank you for making them. It saves me the COC voilations of putting you in your place AGAIN. I'm starting to think all of this just hot air from a true blowhard. Have you ever even sighted in a weapon? From the sounds of your posts it does not sound like it. Even though you are trying so hard to portray yourself as an "Expert".

I only post about Colt's rare problems to rain in the stupidity of the Colt fan club. Personally, I think they make a fine weapon. Even though the company sucks. Hell, I have owned three of them. The problem is that many of you Kool Aid Brigade members seem to overlook and ignore any of Colts problems. It seems even if only for a moment to keep you guys in check.


Originally Posted By JLM:
Fact is, as I understand it, LW cannot perform their conversion on the Lewis guns with canted FSB's, because they are OUT OF SPEC.



Coming from a different manufacturer who is suppose to release an upper that is in direct competition to LMT's MRP, I will take anything they say with a grain of salt. Buttplate pushing the issue twice and stating his friendship with them does help their credibility. Obviously it is in their best interest to discredit LMT. You’re only siding with them because it fits your agenda. Does LW have solid statistics to prove these claims? If not this is just more the same baseless sensationalizing you have personally made famous on ARFCOM.


Originally Posted By JLM:
I suspect he'll be along shortly to straighten you all out, hopefully before you guys can turn this thread into another flame war, derail it, and get it locked.



You are just too damn funny. Did you just get amnesia? How many LMT threads have you personally helped destroy? Hell, we cannot have even one decent LMT thread without you or one or two others from coming in and spreading the same BS of lies, half truths, and baseless accusations.


Originally Posted By JLM:
Do you even know how many Colts I currently own? Its an easy number to remember: ZERO. So, you can lay off with the juvenile "Colt Kool Aide Drinker" arugument because it doesn't wash.



Now this I find truly astonishing. I've read countless posts by you over the past six months raving about Colt and their “Superior” QC standards. Even after I post a long list of threads about Colts with problems. You are certainly a member of the Colt “Kool Aid Drinker” club as other members have gotten fed up with your posts and called you out on it several times. Now I find out you do not even own a Colt? Do you even own an AR? How is it that you post over and over about Colt and their supposed superiority when you do not even own one? My God, I would have a lot more respect for you if at the very least you owned a Colt. At least I could just write it off by saying:”He is just proud of his AR”, but hell you don’t even own a colt. Nothing is worse than an Internet expert who bases his posts on arrogance and somebody else’s knowledge.

Link Posted: 5/25/2005 12:00:58 AM EDT

Where exactly does Mr. Witt state that he does not consider ANY amount of excess windage to be a problem?


Umm, right here:


I DON'T KNOW THAT I WOULD CONSIDER ANYTHING EXCESSIVE UNLESS YOU RAN OUT OF ROOM ON THE SIGHT BASE.


I am not so sure the rest of your post is worth addressing, since you obviously can't READ. But I'll give it a crack.


Yes, Pat Rogers likes Colt. He also raves about LMT.


Raves? He stated on TF that he didn't consider Lewis to be a Tier I manufacturer. So, I don't know if that
qualifies as 'raves' exactly. He has said he likes them, with the caveat that the sample size is limited. If you wanna call that a 'rave', then have at 'er.


So based on only TWO (Not 10,20,100, or 200) canted FSB stories, one of which comes from an LMT competitor you are stating all LMT FSB's have a problem? Not even you can be this delusional. This is nothing but baseless sesationalizing.


No, its based on logical extrapolation, unless your willing to believe that my upper, and 48th's came off the line right after each other, and then the drilling fixture was immediately recalibrated after the fact. Of course YOU might be willing to believe that. Since they do not test fire for zero, how would they catch it after two single sets of FSB pins were drilled? Nor did I say ALL the FSB's had a problem. Where did you read that? Talk about delusional, sheesh.


I also praise them because I actually own three and they have all performed Flawlessly. My opinion is based on personal experience with their products. I just went through a Blackwater class with my LMT. Guess what; I had zero problems. My opinion is not based on mere sensationalized rumors started on an internet forum, contrary to yours.


Well great, you have owned three. I have owned two so far. I'm curious as to why you got rid of the one just because it didn't have the LMT logo on it when it was perfectly functional. Was the logo that important to you?

My 'opinions' are not based upon sensationalized rumours stated on some forum, they are based upon reports of others that I trust implicitly (one of them especially so, as would you if you had a clue), and my personal experience, which is equally as valid as yours in any case.


It saves me the COC voilations of putting you in your place AGAIN


LOL! You're one to talk about COC violations. I'm honored to be put in my place by someone that dropped a brand new Wilson CQB on their concrete driveway shortly after receiving it. Bravo!


You’re only siding with them because it fits your agenda


You've mentioned my 'agenda' several times. I wish you'd enlighten me as to WHAT IT IS, so at least I MYSELF know. That way I can REALLY get to work Colt STILL hasn't sent me
my free schwag, damn them! And, who are 'they' and 'them' exactly?


How many LMT threads have you personally helped destroy?


Look in a mirror. I think you've got the wrong guy. I guess your definition of destroying a thread is to provide information based upon my personal experience, correspondence with the principals at the company, and information from 3rd parties who actually know what the fuck they are talking about. The past pattern has been for you to show up in the thread, bait someone into flamming you, and then
getting it locked. I must say your kung fu is pretty good in that respect.


Now I find out you do not even own a Colt? Do you even own an AR?


I don't own a Colt 'currently'. Sold my Colt upper prior to the ban expiring, and bought the Lewis upper from Grant, based upon its feature set. Which you allready know I'm sure. I also sold my BM upper prior to the ban expiring, after they replaced the barrell due ITS canted FSB issue. So currently its the replacement
Lewis upper, riding on my old BM lower. Yes, I post here because I don't own an AR, righty-O!


Oh and if you think for one second I believe you schooled Mr. Witt on a damn thing, you are in need of professional help.


If you were to read the entire email exchange (which I may very well post, allthou since you allready know everything about everything this would most likely be futile) you would see that he completely dodged my excessive windage issue until I actually quoted the SPEC to him, more precisely the .mil accuracty requirements, which if not met is grounds for rejection. So, he either didn't know the spec, or just plain didn't want to deal with the issue, which is unnacceptable in either case. Since they don't test fire for zero, how will they ever even KNOW they are rolling canted FSB's out the door? Unless its really extreme its not allways easy to eyeball, as I am sure you are aware. What's YOUR solution to that problem Dinger? They could send them out the door all day long without knowing it, unless it was VERY visually obvious.
BM KNEW my upper was out of spec, when I told them how far to the right it was shooting, quoted the spec to me, and said 'send it right back'. No bullshit. As I said before now they LASER BORESIGHT THEM, without a huge mythical price raise as Chip asserts.

If I want an honest opinion on Colts QC/QA process, I'll get it from real deal people like Tweak, and HFG, not you. And yes, like everyone else, they certainly make mistakes. But as you can't seem to grasp, this thread is NOT about Colt, its about people who can't get their LMT guns converted. Do you have anything valuable to add, other than trying to flame bait me? Since all your guns are 'perfect', I can't see where anything you could possibly have to say will help the people that are unable to get their LMT guns converted to LW's gas piston. The fact the YOUR three weapons meet
YOUR standards does nothing to solve the problems that people have reported, does it? Nevermind
that's obvious a rhetorical question.

<­BR>


Link Posted: 5/25/2005 12:44:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2005 12:45:39 AM EDT by FL-AR15]
JLM, really man, get a life. Just walk away from the computer for a minute and talk to somebody other than online. You and 48th received one product each that was out of spec. You do not know the inner workings of LMT manufacturing capabilities. Nor do you have any reasonable facts to even imply that LMT is unable to produce quality products. Many arf.com'ers have LMT products and find them to be excellent in quality and workmanship. Granted LMT does not have the same capabilities of Colt or BM, but that does excuse the fact that everything you have stated only amounts to slander of reputation


Oh and 48th, I told your mom!
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 12:53:36 AM EDT
Holy shit! 10,000 posts! Of what? This kinda shite? What a waste of time. Get a life! You sure do spend alot of time on your web fu.

Who cares about colt? I don't, nor does anyone else who posted in the thread. Who cares about your your opinion? I don't. I just wanna make it clear cause it is really funny! When did this become about you? Hell, I don't know. When did this become about LW and LMT? Hell, last time I checked, they had used them as a vendor. When did LW say anything about LMT in his posts? Never. What exactly does this have to do with colt again? Since when would I spend a second justifying or providing "evidence" to you? You been watching too much Judge Joe Brown and playing on your computer my friend What exactly is your grand conspiracy theory? I'd like to know, cause apparently I am a conspirator.

What makes you worthy of wasting my time at 351 AM. Well, I got to admit, its all kinda funny and you just can't get this sort of ninjatainment when you are working during the day. My only imput to this thread thus far has been commenting on folks like you! I don't have enough sense to do otherwise.

This is like fight club, only with a bunch of sniveling maladjusted pre-pubescent boys engaged in full contact quilting, gossip and discussing the latest book in the "Rouge Warrior Series" while snickering at those that are here to actually discuss an issue. A rational person plainly describes his problem - (not me cause I don't think you ought to give a shite about my problem, so I could give a rats ass about telling you about it )- how he has followed it up, and in comes SUPER TURD to bless us with all his tinfoil theories on why the rational guy is posting.

Confusious say, man with 10,000 opinions, no one care about, when man (boy) have no horse in race could be seen as web ninja. He has place of honor in the very "special" forces.



Lock'er up boys! Go tell mom! Nobody cares!

Oh....no takers on my brand new 10.5 barrel for cheap?
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 1:09:29 AM EDT
FL-AR15, I sorta do have insight in to LMTs inner workings. They currently make the finest FAL receiver in the world. It makes FN's look like dog crap. I think they are more capable than alot of other companies you mention. I don't know how many times I have to say they make kick ass stuff that I own. ALL I am saying is this particular upper sucked. END OF STORY. Nobody has ever said that LMT is out of spec so they are not being converted! JEEZ!

I reply to you in a civil way (unlike my previous smart arse thread) out of respect for you.

Deep down I really do believe there are alot of fellers here who take themselves a bit too serious, and start to believe this little internet world is the real world. Somewhere along the line they believe their post count contributes to RANK and somehow believe that it gives their opinion validity. They may even think that someone gives a shite about their opinion. The fact that these rifles are mere toys to most of us is testament to just how serious people take themselves. Next time you meet a real ground and pound infantryman, ask him if his bolt is MP'ed and watch the look of confusion spread across his face.

I usually skip the pillow fights, but I had a bit of tonge and cheek fun in my last post. I hope nobody gets their panties in a bunch over it. Just trying to bring some perspective to this rediculous argument.

I suggest we all go on the Dr. Phil show and work it out!
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 1:20:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FL-AR15:
JLM, really man, get a life. Just walk away from the computer for a minute and talk to somebody other than online. You and 48th received one product each that was out of spec. You do not know the inner workings of LMT manufacturing capabilities. Nor do you have any reasonable facts to even imply that LMT is unable to produce quality products. Many arf.com'ers have LMT products and find them to be excellent in quality and workmanship. Granted LMT does not have the same capabilities of Colt or BM, but that does excuse the fact that everything you have stated only amounts to slander of reputation


Oh and 48th, I told your mom!



Jeap its just me and 48th. See what happened is this:

By some SHEER MIRACLE of coincidence, my upper and 48ths rolled off the line right after each other. Subsequent to that, with a total LACK of test firing to verify mechanical zero, the wizards in Milan realized that their drilling fixture was misalinged and immediately fixed the problem! So hence, me and 48th are the only 2 people in the known universe that got canted FSB's. After all, there have only been 2 REPORTS on the holiest of thou ARFCOM, so there must only be TWO out there.

I don't know how they attach the FSB's? How do you figure when Chip TOLD me? Reading is FUNDEMENTAL.

As far spending too much time on the internet, I haven't actually posted here much in the last two months because well, what's the point?


Deep down I really do believe there are alot of fellers here who take themselves a bit too serious, and start to believe this little internet world is the real world. Somewhere along the line they believe their post count contributes to RANK and somehow believe that it gives their opinion validity. They may even think that someone gives a shite about their opinion.


Exactamundo, my friend! I'd concur on the FAL's as well. My neighbor had one, and it was quite nice.
My knowledge of the FAL is limited however.

I'll also state for the record that my replacement upper is pretty much golden, and quite accurate as well, which was a nice little added bonus. Its good thing I can do my own QA, thanks to people like Tweak.


OBTL!

Link Posted: 5/25/2005 1:31:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2005 1:31:26 AM EDT by Lumpy196]
I will lock, and I will continue to lock, as long as this school kid stupidity continues in the tech forums.
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