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Posted: 7/11/2003 8:21:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2003 6:45:55 AM EDT by SMGLee]
There has been some talk about SOPMOD2 upgrade and chrome carriers. The pictures posted below are the submittial from LMT. This represents the next generation of bolt design. Wes has some in stock at this time for around 300 each.







Notice the front of the carrier with the reinforced ring, newly added holes on the side of the carrier. the Bolt has the new style extractor with dual spring and the strange cuts on the bolt lugs. I am thinking the bolt lug cut is to move dirt around for less jamming problem with dirt and sand. any ideas??
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 8:25:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2003 8:26:20 AM EDT by Bartholomew_Roberts]
Are these compatible with the standard GI barrel extension? What is the MRBF for the upgraded parts?
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 8:28:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 8:39:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2003 8:42:22 AM EDT by Green0]
What is the bolt plated with? What is new to the bolt carrier? ( I see a chamfer and a darker color but what else am I missing and what does the chamfer do)? Are those 2 springs semi-captive or will they fall out if you turn the carrier over?
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 8:43:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MSTN: SMG LEE, THANKS FOR THE HELP WITH THE PICS. YES, THESE WILL FIT THE STANDARD BARREL EXTENSIONS. WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL]
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Damn you Wes and your Jedi mind trick, you just made me buy two of those puppies. Thanks my friend, it will definitely be a worthy upgrade to my M4s.
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 9:09:53 AM EDT
Full auto carrier I suspect?? Will the bolt by itself work with a semi carrier?
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 9:10:54 AM EDT
MMM, looks interesting. I'm imagining with the dual extractor springs that extraction force to be at least 2X that of a standard extrator: wings out the brass like an AK or Mini 14? Ya'lls guesses are as good as mine when it comes to the grooves on the locking lugs. Is the bolt assembly compatible with a standard AR bolt carrier? And if so Wes, will you sell them individually?
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 9:25:01 AM EDT
[>Q]
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 9:29:52 AM EDT
I thought Knight's had a patent on the two spring extractor? What does the Knight's modification look like? ls
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 9:49:54 AM EDT
Increased extraction force will aid extraction. The AK's flying brass comes from it's fixed ejector the Ar has a spring loaded ejector the ejection speed and distnce should not change. [b]Is that Bolt carrier maxhard or --- treated or is it just a darker finish?[/b]
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 10:15:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SMGLee: Notice the front of the carrier with the reinforced ring, newly added holes on the side of the carrier. the Bolt has the new style extractor with dual spring and the strange cuts on the bolt lugs. I am thinking the bolt lug cut is to move dirt around for less jamming problem with dirt and sand. any ideas??
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Also look at the Number 1 and 7 lugs (next to extractor) The edges are rounded rather than square as opposed to the 2nd-6th. My guess is that this is done to decrease metal fatigue, as the 1st and 7th lugs are the first to break off after several thousand rounds when using a CAR length gas system. Looks like a fantastic design! Thanks for the pics SMG Calvin
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 10:42:56 AM EDT
The finish on the bolt looks like eletrolized chrome, which is thinner but more consistant chroming process. ls
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 10:54:33 AM EDT
Ah, new shit! [Where's my credit card?] So can the new bolt be used with a standard carrier? And the new carrier use a standard bolt?
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 11:00:50 AM EDT
new extractor design looks promising
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 11:09:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 11:12:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MSTN: YES, KNIGHT'S HAS TWO VERSIONS OF THEIR OWN ENHANCED BOLT CARRIER GROUP, ONE THAT WILL WORK WITH A STOCK BARREL EXTENSION AND ONE THAT REQUIRES A SPECIAL BARREL EXTENSION.
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Will you be getting any of these too?
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 11:42:31 AM EDT
SMGLee, Great pics! These looks awesome and now I have to start saving up again...[BD]
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 12:10:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 1:29:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MSTN: AND I AM ALREADY OUT, WITH MANY MORE ON ORDER. SMG LEE PULLED A JEDI MIND-TRICK ON ME AND CLEANED ME OUT.
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Wes, it wasn't a jedi mind trick I pulled, it was my credit card that did the trick. [:)]
Originally Posted By MSTN: YES, KNIGHT'S HAS TWO VERSIONS OF THEIR OWN ENHANCED BOLT CARRIER GROUP, ONE THAT WILL WORK WITH A STOCK BARREL EXTENSION AND ONE THAT REQUIRES A SPECIAL BARREL EXTENSION. WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL]
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And of course you know what I want, a Knight URX upper with that new enhanced bolt and extension in a Med length carbine upper.
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 1:49:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SMGLee: And of course you know what I want, a Knight URX upper with that new enhanced bolt and extension in a Med length carbine upper.
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My credit card is waiting for that [:D]
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 2:56:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MSTN: I WILL OF COURSE TRY TO GET THE KNIGHT'S VERSIONS, AS WELL THEIR COMPLETE UPPERS. BUT BE FOREWARNED IT TOOK ME TWO YEARS TO GET THEM TO START SELLING THE FREE FLOATING FORENDS. WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL]
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Too bad they will not sell the SR25 RAS.
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 3:24:30 PM EDT
Very interesting. Thanks for the pics.
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 3:31:12 PM EDT
Oh man now i gotta buy 2
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 3:38:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2003 4:18:58 PM EDT by HipFiredGun]
This is the same bolt design as the LW15.499 uses although the bolt face is opened up more to accomadate the bigger case head. The radius on the bolt lugs reduce what is known as the moment arm reducing the stress on the root of the lug. The lugs effectively work as springs moving forward on firing thus reducing the force on the barrel extension. The "missing lugs" even out the forces around the barrel extension preventing a failure of the extension in extreme circumstances. The lobster tail extractor design is also used on the LW15.499, the twin springs having the correct 4 to 1 ratio and thus, as they are not continually compressed and streched to full height, they last for millions of cycles rather than tens of thousands. this was developed for the M4 and the .499. You will also notice that the bolt has a full round face rather than the straight cut where the extractor claw sits, this aids strength. The finish is electroless nickel plating - cleaning is a delight. The bolt works in a standard barrel extension. The carrier is known as a long dwell carrier. The shoulder is not the important part, rather under the bolt key are two holes rather than one. These cause the gas to swirl around a bit and delay the bolt opening until the chamber pressure drops to a pre-determined level. The whole system works very well.
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 5:38:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 5:43:15 PM EDT
I just wish everyone would take two years off and stop making any upgrades... It's hard to keep up with the 'Joneses' around these parts...
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 6:35:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HipFiredGun: The finish is electroless nickel plating - cleaning is a delight.
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I know this process is not as desirable as hard chrome. Nickle plating flaks under high heat, i wonder how this bolt finish will hold up to my abuse.
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 6:42:33 PM EDT
Hey SMG, did you try and see if the bolt was compatable with a standard AR/M16 carrier?
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 7:29:17 PM EDT
Why electroless nickel? How does the plating withstand abuse (like 300-480rds in 5-6minutes?) What is the estimated useable life of the plating in firing cycles? I think the design looks fantastic and if more show up I will be very interested in buying but I have seen way too many guns with nickle plating flaking off from normal use so it is worry for me.
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 6:21:15 AM EDT
The plating is more durable than chrome and has a better friction coefficient. It outlasts it dramatically. We have shot many thousands of rounds full-auto in both 5.56 and .499 and can testify as to how it holds up. Hey Wes, steady on the praise, both Karl and Paul have been working on these projects since '98, they are the innovators both of the weapons and the ammo (also business partners). Talk to either and they first credit each other and the guys around them. There is lots more in the pipe so I hear.
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 7:41:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 9:14:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Green0: Why electroless nickel?
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Isn't Robar's NP3 essentially electroless nickel with teflon ?? That has always received very positive reviews.
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 9:28:19 AM EDT
So, SMGLee has a Diemaco C8 barrel, a new LMT bolt/carrier and a H&K G41 magazine in the well.. ..Making his carbine probably the most reliable M4 on the planet! My congrats to you- Now all you have to do is put about 1K rounds thru it in 2 minutes as a demonstration.. Whatdaya say? :P
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 10:53:36 AM EDT
I have to say the more I see, read and hear about LMT the more impressed I am! This B/BC looks spot on in quality/design!
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 11:32:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cnatra:
Originally Posted By Green0: Why electroless nickel?
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Isn't Robar's NP3 essentially electroless nickel with teflon ?? That has always received very positive reviews.
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It has sometimes actually proven to be problematic on precision functioning surfaces in firearms. The extractor would be one of those areas. Its an excellent, self-lubricanting finish that is as close to rust proof as is available, but it needs to stay off extraction surfaces.
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 4:02:10 PM EDT
I wish I could get Diemaco barrels [peep] -Cap'n
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 5:22:19 PM EDT
Maybe that's part of the reason they have two extractor springs : ) I don't know I am through doubting and ready to buy if they become availible.
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 11:53:10 AM EDT
The two springs are there for one simple reason, they prevent extractor spring failure.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 6:49:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2003 6:50:43 AM EDT by SMGLee]
[img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/guns/lmtbolt-5.jpg[/img] From eye balling it, thecarrier seem a bit longer, i will get a measurement this weekend [img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/guns/lmtbolt-6.jpg[/img] The spring recess is deep, which contains a thick coil spring compare to the stand extractor spring. BTW, the bolt fits the standard carrier, I am going to shoot it this weekend to make sure the bolt will function with the standard carrier.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 7:46:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 8:26:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2003 8:39:15 AM EDT by SMGLee]
Wes, I am got some of those McFarland gas rings, what do you think of them?? since it was only 1.25, I went ahead and order 16 of them. I only need about three more bolt heads. plus one complete carrier assembly fitted for the SPR barrel with the OPS brake. Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 2:31:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MSTN: AS WELL AS EXTRA BOLT ASSEMBLIES. AFTER I OR TWO LEFT FOR THE REST OF US. [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL]
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That new bolt design looks great! Will this be a patented/proprietary thing for LMT ??
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 2:51:25 PM EDT
It is patented. Most of the kit you are going to see coming out of LMT and LW is patented in some way or other.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 3:51:22 PM EDT
Nice, but too rich for my wallet. [>Q]
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 3:55:40 PM EDT
Not that I would expect one of these to malfunction. At least not for a long time. But How difficult do you guys think it would be to get parts for these BC groups? Springs, extractors, etc? AY
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 5:05:18 PM EDT
That is why I bought extra bolt heads.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 6:58:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 7:51:02 PM EDT
Thinking about getting the LMT bolt/carrier or the one from Knights. Knights costs less than the LMT. What do you guys think?
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 7:57:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By amuroray: Thinking about getting the LMT bolt/carrier or the one from Knights. Knights costs less than the LMT. What do you guys think?
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Got any pics of the KAC?
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 8:02:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2003 8:23:26 PM EDT by amuroray]
It is a hard chrome assembly. Again, with 2 extractor springs also. edit to add: It is hundred bucks plus less than the one from LMT.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 8:11:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By amuroray: No pic. It is a hard chrome assembly. Again, with 2 extractor springs also. edit to add: It is hundred bucks plus less than the one from LMT.
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How did you get the specifics on it? Is there info. available at KAC's website yet?
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