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Posted: 7/11/2003 8:21:28 AM EDT
There has been some talk about SOPMOD2 upgrade and chrome carriers. The pictures posted below are the submittial from LMT. This represents the next generation of bolt design. Wes has some in stock at this time for around 300 each.
   Notice the front of the carrier with the reinforced ring, newly added holes on the side of the carrier. the Bolt has the new style extractor with dual spring and the strange cuts on the bolt lugs. I am thinking the bolt lug cut is to move dirt around for less jamming problem with dirt and sand. any ideas?? |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 8:25:49 AM EDT
[#1]
Are these compatible with the standard GI barrel extension? What is the MRBF for the upgraded parts?
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Posted: 7/11/2003 8:28:31 AM EDT
[#2]
SMG LEE,
THANKS FOR THE HELP WITH THE PICS. YES, THESE WILL FIT THE STANDARD BARREL EXTENSIONS. WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 8:39:21 AM EDT
[#3]
What is the bolt plated with? What is new to the bolt carrier? ( I see a chamfer and a darker color but what else am I missing and what does the chamfer do)? Are those 2 springs semi-captive or will they fall out if you turn the carrier over? |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 8:43:10 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: SMG LEE, THANKS FOR THE HELP WITH THE PICS. YES, THESE WILL FIT THE STANDARD BARREL EXTENSIONS. WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] Damn you Wes and your Jedi mind trick, you just made me buy two of those puppies. Thanks my friend, it will definitely be a worthy upgrade to my M4s. |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 9:09:53 AM EDT
[#5]
Full auto carrier I suspect?? Will the bolt by itself work with a semi carrier?
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Posted: 7/11/2003 9:10:54 AM EDT
[#6]
MMM, looks interesting. I'm imagining with the dual extractor springs that extraction force to be at least 2X that of a standard extrator: wings out the brass like an AK or Mini 14? Ya'lls guesses are as good as mine when it comes to the grooves on the locking lugs.
Is the bolt assembly compatible with a standard AR bolt carrier? And if so Wes, will you sell them individually? |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 9:25:01 AM EDT
[#7]
[>Q]
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Posted: 7/11/2003 9:29:52 AM EDT
[#8]
I thought Knight's had a patent on the two spring extractor? What does the Knight's modification look like?
ls |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 9:49:54 AM EDT
[#9]
Increased extraction force will aid extraction.
The AK's flying brass comes from it's fixed ejector the Ar has a spring loaded ejector the ejection speed and distnce should not change. [b]Is that Bolt carrier maxhard or --- treated or is it just a darker finish?[/b] |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 10:15:34 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Notice the front of the carrier with the reinforced ring, newly added holes on the side of the carrier. the Bolt has the new style extractor with dual spring and the strange cuts on the bolt lugs. I am thinking the bolt lug cut is to move dirt around for less jamming problem with dirt and sand. any ideas?? Also look at the Number 1 and 7 lugs (next to extractor) The edges are rounded rather than square as opposed to the 2nd-6th. My guess is that this is done to decrease metal fatigue, as the 1st and 7th lugs are the first to break off after several thousand rounds when using a CAR length gas system. Looks like a fantastic design! Thanks for the pics SMG Calvin |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 10:42:56 AM EDT
[#11]
The finish on the bolt looks like eletrolized chrome, which is thinner but more consistant chroming process.
ls |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 10:54:33 AM EDT
[#12]
Ah, new shit!
[Where's my credit card?] So can the new bolt be used with a standard carrier? And the new carrier use a standard bolt? |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 11:00:50 AM EDT
[#13]
new extractor design looks promising |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 11:09:19 AM EDT
[#14]
THAT IS STANDARD COLT M4 GEAR TO THE RIGHT IN EACH PIC, FOR COMPARISON'S SAKE.
THESE ARE SO NEW THAT LMT DOES NOT EVEN HAVE LITERATURE AVAILABLE YET. I CAN'T ANSWER THE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT THE FINISHES ARE. THEY DO LOOK VERY GOOD, I CAN SAY. I DO NOT YET KNOW IF THE BOLTS, WHICH WILL BE SOLD SEPARATELY, WILL WORK WITH THE STANDARD CARRIER. THE BOLT ASSEMBLIES ALONE ARE $185. THE COMPLETE BOLT CARRIER GROUP WIT BOLT ASSEMBLY IS $300. AND I AM ALREADY OUT, WITH MANY MORE ON ORDER. SMG LEE PULLED A JEDI MIND-TRICK ON ME AND CLEANED ME OUT. YES, KNIGHT'S HAS TWO VERSIONS OF THEIR OWN ENHANCED BOLT CARRIER GROUP, ONE THAT WILL WORK WITH A STOCK BARREL EXTENSION AND ONE THAT REQUIRES A SPECIAL BARREL EXTENSION. WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 11:12:51 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: YES, KNIGHT'S HAS TWO VERSIONS OF THEIR OWN ENHANCED BOLT CARRIER GROUP, ONE THAT WILL WORK WITH A STOCK BARREL EXTENSION AND ONE THAT REQUIRES A SPECIAL BARREL EXTENSION. Will you be getting any of these too? |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 11:42:31 AM EDT
[#16]
SMGLee, Great pics! These looks awesome and now I have to start saving up again...[BD] |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 12:10:00 PM EDT
[#17]
I WILL OF COURSE TRY TO GET THE KNIGHT'S VERSIONS, AS WELL THEIR COMPLETE UPPERS.
BUT BE FOREWARNED IT TOOK ME TWO YEARS TO GET THEM TO START SELLING THE FREE FLOATING FORENDS. WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 1:29:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: AND I AM ALREADY OUT, WITH MANY MORE ON ORDER. SMG LEE PULLED A JEDI MIND-TRICK ON ME AND CLEANED ME OUT. Wes, it wasn't a jedi mind trick I pulled, it was my credit card that did the trick. [:)] Quoted: YES, KNIGHT'S HAS TWO VERSIONS OF THEIR OWN ENHANCED BOLT CARRIER GROUP, ONE THAT WILL WORK WITH A STOCK BARREL EXTENSION AND ONE THAT REQUIRES A SPECIAL BARREL EXTENSION. WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] And of course you know what I want, a Knight URX upper with that new enhanced bolt and extension in a Med length carbine upper. |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 1:49:33 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: And of course you know what I want, a Knight URX upper with that new enhanced bolt and extension in a Med length carbine upper. My credit card is waiting for that [:D] |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 2:56:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: I WILL OF COURSE TRY TO GET THE KNIGHT'S VERSIONS, AS WELL THEIR COMPLETE UPPERS. BUT BE FOREWARNED IT TOOK ME TWO YEARS TO GET THEM TO START SELLING THE FREE FLOATING FORENDS. WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] Too bad they will not sell the SR25 RAS. |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 3:24:30 PM EDT
[#21]
Very interesting.
Thanks for the pics. |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 3:31:12 PM EDT
[#22]
Oh man now i gotta buy 2
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Posted: 7/11/2003 3:38:09 PM EDT
[#23]
This is the same bolt design as the LW15.499 uses although the bolt face is opened up more to accomadate the bigger case head.
The radius on the bolt lugs reduce what is known as the moment arm reducing the stress on the root of the lug. The lugs effectively work as springs moving forward on firing thus reducing the force on the barrel extension. The "missing lugs" even out the forces around the barrel extension preventing a failure of the extension in extreme circumstances. The lobster tail extractor design is also used on the LW15.499, the twin springs having the correct 4 to 1 ratio and thus, as they are not continually compressed and streched to full height, they last for millions of cycles rather than tens of thousands. this was developed for the M4 and the .499. You will also notice that the bolt has a full round face rather than the straight cut where the extractor claw sits, this aids strength. The finish is electroless nickel plating - cleaning is a delight. The bolt works in a standard barrel extension. The carrier is known as a long dwell carrier. The shoulder is not the important part, rather under the bolt key are two holes rather than one. These cause the gas to swirl around a bit and delay the bolt opening until the chamber pressure drops to a pre-determined level. The whole system works very well. |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 5:38:47 PM EDT
[#24]
WE ALL OWE A VOTE OF THANKS TO:
HipFiredGun THIS SIMILARITY IN DESIGN IS EASILY EXPLAINED BY THE FACT THAT LEWIS MACHINE AND TOOL BUILDS THE LW15.499, WHICH HAS BEEN ADOPTED BY THE COAST GUARD. IT'S PURPOSE IS TO CAUSE PEOPLE AND MACHINERY TO NO LONGER WORK. THE PIECES OF THE PUZZLE ARE COMING TOGETHER. AND THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN IS... KARL LEWIS! WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 5:43:15 PM EDT
[#25]
I just wish everyone would take two years off and stop making any upgrades...
It's hard to keep up with the 'Joneses' around these parts... |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 6:35:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: The finish is electroless nickel plating - cleaning is a delight. I know this process is not as desirable as hard chrome. Nickle plating flaks under high heat, i wonder how this bolt finish will hold up to my abuse. |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 6:42:33 PM EDT
[#27]
Hey SMG,
did you try and see if the bolt was compatable with a standard AR/M16 carrier? |
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Posted: 7/11/2003 7:29:17 PM EDT
[#28]
Why electroless nickel?
How does the plating withstand abuse (like 300-480rds in 5-6minutes?) What is the estimated useable life of the plating in firing cycles? I think the design looks fantastic and if more show up I will be very interested in buying but I have seen way too many guns with nickle plating flaking off from normal use so it is worry for me. |
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Posted: 7/12/2003 6:21:15 AM EDT
[#29]
The plating is more durable than chrome and has a better friction coefficient. It outlasts it dramatically. We have shot many thousands of rounds full-auto in both 5.56 and .499 and can testify as to how it holds up.
Hey Wes, steady on the praise, both Karl and Paul have been working on these projects since '98, they are the innovators both of the weapons and the ammo (also business partners). Talk to either and they first credit each other and the guys around them. There is lots more in the pipe so I hear. |
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Posted: 7/12/2003 7:41:43 AM EDT
[#30]
THAT'S WHAT I HEAR, AS WELL...
WES |
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Posted: 7/12/2003 9:14:03 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: Why electroless nickel? Isn't Robar's NP3 essentially electroless nickel with teflon ?? That has always received very positive reviews. |
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Posted: 7/12/2003 9:28:19 AM EDT
[#32]
So,
SMGLee has a Diemaco C8 barrel, a new LMT bolt/carrier and a H&K G41 magazine in the well.. ..Making his carbine probably the most reliable M4 on the planet! My congrats to you- Now all you have to do is put about 1K rounds thru it in 2 minutes as a demonstration.. Whatdaya say? :P |
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Posted: 7/12/2003 10:53:36 AM EDT
[#33]
I have to say the more I see, read and hear about LMT the more impressed I am! This B/BC looks spot on in quality/design!
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Posted: 7/12/2003 11:32:20 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Quoted: Why electroless nickel? Isn't Robar's NP3 essentially electroless nickel with teflon ?? That has always received very positive reviews. It has sometimes actually proven to be problematic on precision functioning surfaces in firearms. The extractor would be one of those areas. Its an excellent, self-lubricanting finish that is as close to rust proof as is available, but it needs to stay off extraction surfaces. |
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Posted: 7/12/2003 4:02:10 PM EDT
[#35]
I wish I could get Diemaco barrels [peep]
-Cap'n |
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Posted: 7/12/2003 5:22:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Maybe that's part of the reason they have two extractor springs : ) I don't know I am through doubting and ready to buy if they become availible.
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Posted: 7/13/2003 11:53:10 AM EDT
[#37]
The two springs are there for one simple reason, they prevent extractor spring failure.
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Posted: 7/15/2003 6:49:53 AM EDT
[#38]
[img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/guns/lmtbolt-5.jpg[/img]
From eye balling it, thecarrier seem a bit longer, i will get a measurement this weekend [img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/guns/lmtbolt-6.jpg[/img] The spring recess is deep, which contains a thick coil spring compare to the stand extractor spring. BTW, the bolt fits the standard carrier, I am going to shoot it this weekend to make sure the bolt will function with the standard carrier. |
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Posted: 7/15/2003 7:46:40 AM EDT
[#39]
ACCORDING TO LMT REP, IT WILL.
I HAVE MORE OF THESE LMT BOLT CARRIER GROUPS INBOUND, BOTH SEMI AND FULL AUTO, AS WELL AS EXTRA BOLT ASSEMBLIES. AFTER I FILL ALL OF SMG LEE'S BACKORDERS, THERE MAY BE ONE OR TWO LEFT FOR THE REST OF US. WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] |
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Posted: 7/15/2003 8:26:42 AM EDT
[#40]
Wes, I am got some of those McFarland gas rings, what do you think of them?? since it was only 1.25, I went ahead and order 16 of them.
I only need about three more bolt heads. plus one complete carrier assembly fitted for the SPR barrel with the OPS brake. Thanks. |
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Posted: 7/15/2003 2:31:29 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: AS WELL AS EXTRA BOLT ASSEMBLIES. AFTER I OR TWO LEFT FOR THE REST OF US. [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] That new bolt design looks great! Will this be a patented/proprietary thing for LMT ?? |
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Posted: 7/15/2003 2:51:25 PM EDT
[#42]
It is patented. Most of the kit you are going to see coming out of LMT and LW is patented in some way or other.
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Posted: 7/15/2003 3:51:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Nice, but too rich for my wallet. [>Q]
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Posted: 7/15/2003 3:55:40 PM EDT
[#44]
Not that I would expect one of these to malfunction. At least not for a long time. But How difficult do you guys think it would be to get parts for these BC groups? Springs, extractors, etc?
AY |
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Posted: 7/15/2003 5:05:18 PM EDT
[#45]
That is why I bought extra bolt heads.
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Posted: 7/15/2003 6:58:57 PM EDT
[#46]
THE VARSITY TEAMS USE ONE-PIECE GAS RINGS.
BUT I VERY SELDOM HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH MY GUNS RUNNING, AND ALL OF THEM HAVE 3-PIECE GAS RINGS. THOSE PROBLEMS THAT I DO ENCOUNTER USUALLY END UP BEING MAGAZINE RELATED. BUT MY GUNS STAY PRETTY CLEAN AND WELL LUBED, AND I INDULGE IN DECENT AMMO. EXAMPLE: I WAS SHOOTING SPR'S TODAY. ONE NEW CONDITION COLT 20-RD MAG WOULD PUT THE 4TH ROUND OUT OF FIVE LOADED LOW EVERY TIME. I SWEAR IT WASN'T ME! DID IT FIVE GROUPS IN A ROW. WES |
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Posted: 7/16/2003 7:51:02 PM EDT
[#47]
Thinking about getting the LMT bolt/carrier or the one from Knights.
Knights costs less than the LMT. What do you guys think? |
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Posted: 7/16/2003 7:57:00 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: Thinking about getting the LMT bolt/carrier or the one from Knights. Knights costs less than the LMT. What do you guys think? Got any pics of the KAC? |
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Posted: 7/16/2003 8:02:47 PM EDT
[#49]
It is a hard chrome assembly. Again, with 2 extractor springs also.
edit to add: It is hundred bucks plus less than the one from LMT. |
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Posted: 7/16/2003 8:11:03 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: No pic. It is a hard chrome assembly. Again, with 2 extractor springs also. edit to add: It is hundred bucks plus less than the one from LMT. How did you get the specifics on it? Is there info. available at KAC's website yet? |
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