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Posted: 12/25/2003 12:33:20 PM EDT
I have a Colt pre-ban AR15 and I would like to install a M4 style upper on it that has a total barrel length of 14.5 inches with a A2 style bird cage flash hider that has been perminatly attached (pinned/welded. Is this legal ? or is the minimum legal barrel length  16 inches ? unless it is registered as a full auto or short barrelled rifle/pistol etc. Anybody know what the law states???? Please advise....Thank You.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 12:39:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2003 12:40:41 PM EDT by _DR]
Originally Posted By garand308:
I have a Colt pre-ban AR15 and I would like to install a M4 style upper on it that has a total barrel length of 14.5 inches with a A2 style bird cage flash hider that has been perminatly attached (pinned/welded. Is this legal ? or is the minimum legal barrel length  16 inches ? unless it is registered as a full auto or short barrelled rifle/pistol etc. Anybody know what the law states???? Please advise....Thank You.
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If the barrel comes to 16 inches OAL including permanently affixed muzzle device, pre or post ban, it is legal. if permnanent, it is considerd part of the barrel. Prebans are not exempt from the 16 inch rule, however registered full-autos are exempt.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 12:54:41 PM EDT
If its a REAL A2 flash hider and its a regular washer and not custom thickness thats an illegal SBR as its just a fraction of an inch too short.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 1:03:51 PM EDT
The Phantom would be long enough I believe
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 3:28:49 PM EDT
The legal measurement is from the bolt face to the muzzle, or in your case the end of the permantly attached flash suppressor. The ATF measures using a wooden dowel inserted from the muzzle with the breach of the gun locked.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 4:24:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By _DR:
however registered full-autos are exempt.
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Are you sure about that? All those I've seen are "two stamp" guns, but those were integrally suppressed SBRs.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 5:34:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2003 5:34:14 PM EDT by _DR]
now you've got me wondering...I was fairly certain but I'll look it up in the yellow book.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 6:00:53 PM EDT
_DR is correct. 16" OAL, 14.5" or shorter barrels must equal 16" with permanently attached Flash Suppressor. MG's can have any barrel length. Two stamps would make sense for an integrally suppressed machine gun because suppressor would be on one stamp and the registered reciever on another.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 6:12:19 PM EDT

Yeah, it looks like a Machinegun RR can't also be a registered short barreled rifle because the BATF does not consider a machinegun as a "Rifle". So it can have a sub 16 inch barrel, and can have all "assault rifles" features such as folding stock, bayo lug, flash hider, etc. since it is not a "rifle". Makes sense from their way of looking at it. If 40mm M203 is added, still have to have a DD letter though.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 10:58:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By _DR:
since it is not a "rifle".
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And as such it can't be a short barrelled rifle. Excellent.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 3:20:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By oneshot1kill:
_DR is correct. 16" OAL, 14.5" or shorter barrels must equal 16" with permanently attached Flash Suppressor. MG's can have any barrel length. Two stamps would make sense for an integrally suppressed machine gun because suppressor would be on one stamp and the registered reciever on another.
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When I was shopping for a Subgun I went to lomonts there and behold a nice MP5SD, he told me that they changed it to a one tax gun with a intergreated suppresser on it you still had to pay $400 but the forms were combined somehow Into a one taxed gun. so has when they proccessed the paperwork that you did not have to wait for two approvals.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 5:29:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LocknLoaded:
Originally Posted By oneshot1kill:
_DR is correct. 16" OAL, 14.5" or shorter barrels must equal 16" with permanently attached Flash Suppressor. MG's can have any barrel length. Two stamps would make sense for an integrally suppressed machine gun because suppressor would be on one stamp and the registered reciever on another.
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When I was shopping for a Subgun I went to lomonts there and behold a nice MP5SD, he told me that they changed it to a one tax gun with a intergreated suppresser on it you still had to pay $400 but the forms were combined somehow Into a one taxed gun. so has when they proccessed the paperwork that you did not have to wait for two approvals.
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It sounds more sensible to do it that way for certain weapons. I wonder how this would work for an M16 platform with a similar setup?
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