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4/22/2019 5:32:20 PM
Posted: 12/22/2003 11:30:38 AM EDT
I am not one to reccomend lasers, but they look cool and you never know when you might have to don a gas mask and use a laser to aim. So alright guys, be honest. No brand loyalties or brand hatred. Which laser is better? The Surefire L72 or the Laser Devices MR2? Anyone have experience with either or both? I know the weaknesses of lasers, but which unit has more strengths over the other?
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 12:54:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 1:21:27 AM EDT
My OTAL has ceased to function. I've not had a chance yet to see about getting something done about it. But it was a little disheartening.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 1:58:20 AM EDT
Go for Laser Devices. I don't know about MR2 but I used to have an OTAL. It is a nice gadget. Regarding the L72, it is a piece of junk. It is over price and has design fault. Just ask how many L72 owners have shipped their L72 back to Surefire for services because of the broken laser diode. Speaking of my L72, now it is sitting somewhere at Surefire service center. If you want the best one, go for the Insights CVL if you can find one.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 10:35:46 AM EDT
I have the OTAL and the L72. While the L72 is a far better product, I do not see the value add justifying the price and weight, as far as visible lasers go.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 9:27:16 PM EDT
In what way is the L72 better? It it an issue of material and finish? Or is the laser diode better quality?
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 12:44:16 AM EDT
Or is the laser diode better quality?
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Oh my, don't mention it anymore! [b]L72[/b] [heavy]
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 12:50:38 AM EDT
So the Mr2 has a better diode, but the l72 just looks slicker?
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 2:06:35 AM EDT
I have the L72, and just don't like the bulk over the OTAL, but it is nice and modular with the rest of my Surefire gear. I want an OTAL, specifically a green OTAL but they tell me not to hold my breath. BTW, the MR2 is the small pinpoint dot, I recommend against it and go with the larger dot of the OTAL, it is much easier to see. One of the reasons I got the L72 was for the large dot that, like the better lasers, remains focused better than a lot of others at longer distances.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 6:28:34 AM EDT
I looked at the specs on both the OTAL and MR2 as well as several other on their site. They all have the smae specs. I thought there were two diodes available for each model: the daytime super power point and the magnum power point. Don't they have different intensities and diameters? Maybe I'm wrong, though. Does anyone know for certain what's up?
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 8:54:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2003 9:02:47 PM EDT by AK_Mike]
Originally Posted By knightone: I looked at the specs on both the OTAL and MR2 as well as several other on their site. They all have the smae specs. I thought there were two diodes available for each model: the daytime super power point and the magnum power point. Don't they have different intensities and diameters? Maybe I'm wrong, though. Does anyone know for certain what's up?
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Look again, they do NOT have the same specs. OTAL = Beam Diameter: 6.5 mm @ 25 meters MR2 = Beam Diameter: 0.58 sq. cm @ 25 meters That's the primary difference. All the civilian lasers are limited to 5 or less milliwatts, and the better ones all operate at 635nm wavelength (except for green or IR). No visible red laser is good enough for open bright daylight, period (beyond 3 meters that is). They are only good enough for shadowed areas, overcast or dim lighting conditions, and indoors. IR, green, and military lasers are another matter. So in general, there is no "Magnum" intensity, they are all limited in power to 5mw, however, the differences come into play as to how large the projected dot is, what shape the dot is, the wavelength (smaller wavelength is brighter in appearence to the eye) how well focused they are (some dot's get much bigger quicker as they go out in range, which disperses the light causing it to get dimmer instead of remaining concentrated). Some lasers also pulsate at different rates so you can more easily spot them or differentiate your dot from someone elses.
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 8:33:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2003 8:34:23 AM EDT by knightone]
Originally Posted By AK_Mike:
Originally Posted By knightone: I looked at the specs on both the OTAL and MR2 as well as several other on their site. They all have the smae specs. I thought there were two diodes available for each model: the daytime super power point and the magnum power point. Don't they have different intensities and diameters? Maybe I'm wrong, though. Does anyone know for certain what's up?
View Quote
Look again, they do NOT have the same specs. OTAL = Beam Diameter: 6.5 mm @ 25 meters MR2 = Beam Diameter: 0.58 sq. cm @ 25 meters That's the primary difference. All the civilian lasers are limited to 5 or less milliwatts, and the better ones all operate at 635nm wavelength (except for green or IR). No visible red laser is good enough for open bright daylight, period (beyond 3 meters that is). They are only good enough for shadowed areas, overcast or dim lighting conditions, and indoors. IR, green, and military lasers are another matter. So in general, there is no "Magnum" intensity, they are all limited in power to 5mw, however, the differences come into play as to how large the projected dot is, what shape the dot is, the wavelength (smaller wavelength is brighter in appearence to the eye) how well focused they are (some dot's get much bigger quicker as they go out in range, which disperses the light causing it to get dimmer instead of remaining concentrated). Some lasers also pulsate at different rates so you can more easily spot them or differentiate your dot from someone elses.
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You are right, I must have gotten the MR2 confused with the ITAL or something. Thanks! I also took the different "magnum" types to mean the diameter.
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 7:13:32 PM EDT
That's probably what they mean when they bandy about the term Magnum. When I first started buying lasers, I used to get the ones with the smallest projected dots cause I thought they would have better range. Then I noticed how much harder they were to see. I also realized as far as visible lasers went, I had no need to see them 100's of yards away, they were mostly needed for closeup work. That's why I like the large dots. I am not sure what the purpose behind the MR2 is - I need someone to explain it to me...
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 7:51:23 AM EDT
Knighttone, Sorry for my delay in getting back to you. I do not get to check this forum that often. AK-Mike answered in the same manner as I would regarding the laser debacle. I prefer the L72 due to the modularity it offers me with my M4. The Surefire body allows for quick swaps between light & laser. The construction, in my opinion, is better, and the bright dot of the L72 makes for much faster target acquisition. If weight is a primary requirement, consider the OTAL. Regards, J
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 8:14:44 AM EDT
Which body works best with the L72? The six volt or the nine volt? Also, does it require the Millenium series body or can you use a classic series body?
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 8:35:28 PM EDT
The L72 is a 6 volt unit, and uses REVERSE polarity. I use mine on a M952 millenium body (with the batteries reversed). I see no reason you couldn't use any 6 volt body as long as it can take the standard lamp heads. I had the newer design which I though had addressed a design flaw issue which I ran across. I slapped it on my M952 body and hit the switch, forgetting to reverse my batteries. I killed the laser within the first two minutes I had it out of the box, and had to send it back for repair. The design upgrade I think had something to do with working with the dual head adaptor better among other things. My next plan is to get the dual head adaptor and thus have the L72 and a lamp head on the same 6 volt body. That would save some bulk/weight issues but then I wouldn't have a selective choice, they would both come on at the same time. Currently, it's mounted on a M952 body and ranger banded to a M900 grip light. If I squeeze lightly, I get the laser, if I grip tighter, then I get the lamp as well unless I have it locked off. [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=18779[/img] [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=18778[/img]
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 9:10:37 PM EDT
That's a cool setup AK. That was kind of what I wanted to do, use it along with an M900. What suppressor do you have on that rifle?
Link Posted: 12/31/2003 5:04:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2003 7:58:18 AM EDT by smithjss]
I have a set-up similiar that Mike. I do not like my toggle option though, as I find myself having to squeeze the laser's pressure pad too hard to activate the light pad. I usually end up locking out the light and using the light/laser independantly. When using this configuration with the 900, a tail cap pad for the laser might solve my problem. Is your front flip-down PRI or KAC?? Same here with the batteries. My unit suposedly (according to production date) had been updated to correct the polarity issue, but that was not the case. I was fortunate that Wes @ MSTN gave me a heads up before I fried the unit. Happy New Year guys. Jay [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/063315.JPG[/img]
Link Posted: 12/31/2003 5:25:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2003 5:27:18 AM EDT by TheRicker]
Link Posted: 12/31/2003 8:51:43 AM EDT
Good call, Ricker, right on both accounts. Unfortunately, I did not get the warning about the polarity thing and fried mine promptly - I was one of the first to get the updated model so (from MSTN) so I don't think Wes thought he needed to warm me as that was supposed to have been fixed. More and more I find myself switching over to click tailcaps. Not much choice with the M900, but for the rest of my lights, I have pretty much gone to click tailcaps. That's probably what will happen to the rifle in my picture as if I ever did use it for serious business, I don't know if I would want to accidentally activate my light when all I wanted was the laser, but this was how I first tried out the combo and took a picture.
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