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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 11/24/2005 7:19:04 AM EDT
Has anyone seen the new Keltec pistol version of their .223 rifle. Do you think it or the AR-15 pistols will be better?

Thanks
Brian Stewart
Link Posted: 11/24/2005 7:39:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2005 7:39:39 AM EDT by new-arguy]
Link Posted: 11/24/2005 9:04:21 PM EDT
It will be less than half the price and not have a buffer tube sticking out the back.
sounds good to me!
Link Posted: 11/24/2005 10:32:07 PM EDT
kel-tec pistol in .223?

got a link?

Link Posted: 11/24/2005 11:43:15 PM EDT
I saw one of keltecs 9mm target pistols at Tacoma Sportsmen club in Tacoma when I was on leave and it was a POS, fired fine bu why would you buy something that will have its front sight fall off after 10 shots right out of the box?

Link Posted: 11/25/2005 12:06:00 AM EDT
Hey, people. This is already being discussed on the AR-15 Pistol Page. Not only is this not an AR-15, it's a Pistol, not a rifle.
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 12:07:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By svtfast:
I saw one of keltecs 9mm target pistols at Tacoma Sportsmen club in Tacoma when I was on leave and it was a POS, fired fine bu why would you buy something that will have its front sight fall off after 10 shots right out of the box?



First of all, KelTec doesn't make a 9mm TARGET pistol. They make a 9mm backup pocket pistol. Mine have all been 100% reliable and the front sights have never come off.

"My anecdote can beat up your anecdote!"
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 2:48:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By svtfast:
I saw one of keltecs 9mm target pistols at Tacoma Sportsmen club in Tacoma when I was on leave and it was a POS, fired fine bu why would you buy something that will have its front sight fall off after 10 shots right out of the box?


do you think you might mean Hi-Point?
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 8:38:51 AM EDT
no way close
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 11:29:36 AM EDT
This is what he's talking about:



Link Posted: 11/25/2005 7:02:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By svtfast:
I saw one of keltecs 9mm target pistols at Tacoma Sportsmen club in Tacoma when I was on leave and it was a POS, fired fine bu why would you buy something that will have its front sight fall off after 10 shots right out of the box?




Only pistol I have ever seen the front sight come off of, was a Glock. Happened to a friend of mine. He had it for several months before I finally managed to talk him into coming to the range with me to try it out (I couldn't understand how someone could go for months without firing a brand new gun). After the sight came off, I told him to either take it back to the dealer and ask if they could do something about it, or contact Glock about a warranty return. He said he'd probably just superglue it back on.

He seemed to have more fun shooting my Colt revolver (I've never had a problem with it's sights), than his Glock.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 5:26:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 6:16:55 PM EDT
It all depends on how you define "better"....


For sure it will be light weight. It will be shorter then most. The only one that would compare to it would be the Oly pistol. A 9" barrel on the Keltec is better then the 6" barrel on the Oly IMO. Granted, it will ONLY be a 223. Unlike the other pistols out there, you can't swap on a 9mm barrel (if you have the right buffer on the back).

Currently, the AR pistols using the traditional receiver (including Bushmaster's) are at least $900.00 Most people don't wish to spend that much on an item like an AR pistol. With the Keltec pistol, it opens up a different price range for people.

My AR pistol has a 10.5 or 11" barrel, plus the length of the buffer (M1S). That's a long pistol. The PLR-16 (it's name) should allow one/double handed shots like a traditional pistol because of it's weight/length. If one wanted, a longer rail could be attached to the Keltec, which extends toward the front to put on decent sights....or just use an optical one.

I say the PLR-16 is its own duck.

-it's lighter
-it's cheaper
-it's shorter OAL
-has longer barrel other then most 7"

Most AR pistols
- heavy
-short barreled or too long
-long OAL


At least they created one! Gives people OPTIONs (unless you're in an occupied state.....)
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 5:51:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
Please tell me those scope rings are not made from plastic.



no, they're not plastic....they're black anodized aluminum.

about half way down the page here: www.kel-tec.com/su-16_accessories.htm
Link Posted: 12/3/2005 12:18:37 PM EDT
man i think the kel tec plr16 is way cool.i just wonder how bad the trigger is.wonder if its good enough to bump fire?
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 12:09:11 PM EDT
Looking at the dissasembled view on KetTecs web site, it appears to be built more like an AK47, the bolt carrier and pist and such.
I'd buy one if it is $300 or less. Any one know what they sell for? What did the rifles go for? (for an idea what this'll be)
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 9:12:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Real_estate_salesman:
Looking at the dissasembled view on KetTecs web site, it appears to be built more like an AK47, the bolt carrier and pist and such.
I'd buy one if it is $300 or less. Any one know what they sell for? What did the rifles go for? (for an idea what this'll be)



Rifles go for around $500, so I would expect the pistol would be in that ballpark too.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 11:24:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 11:29:37 PM EDT by PromptCritical]
I wonder if it's Beta-Mag friendly.

Might be some promise to it...

Link to press release: www.kel-tec.com/plr16pr.htm
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 12:53:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dawg180:

Originally Posted By Real_estate_salesman:
Looking at the dissasembled view on KetTecs web site, it appears to be built more like an AK47, the bolt carrier and pist and such.
I'd buy one if it is $300 or less. Any one know what they sell for? What did the rifles go for? (for an idea what this'll be)



Rifles go for around $500, so I would expect the pistol would be in that ballpark too.


BLAH! I can build an AR pistol for $500!
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 12:52:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 6:09:19 AM EDT by joe1972]
The case deflecting handle looks interesting?

Link Posted: 12/17/2005 11:05:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2005 11:09:44 PM EDT by Dawg180]
I got to handle one of these in person, and here is my impressions:

I am not impressed at all...

Although the construction of the pistol looks solid, there are a lot of flaws in the design, and I'll go through them on by one.

1. The single point sling you see in the pic- well, the gun I saw doesn't have any way to actually mount it. Mayeb the sling comes with a replacement screw or something.

2. No bolt catch release. Magazines lock the bolt popen when empty, upon loading a new one you have to work the bolt handle to chamber a fresh round.

3. Magazine release poorly done. A small button on the RIGHT side of the pistol which is apparently meatnt to be operated by the right index finger. All fine and dandy, but you need an 8" index finger to actually reach it! The only way to release the magazine is to hold the weapon with the offhand, remove your hand from the pistol grip, and pres the button. Being taht the button is only on the right side, you can't actuate it with your left hand!

4. Basic gun does not come with foregrip- only exposed barrel.

5. The biggie flaw of them all- charging handle is on the right side. Think about #2 for a minute. You physically cannot charge/load the weapon without either A. rotating the weapon 90 degrees to the left 'gangsta style" to operate the charging handle with your left hand or B. remove your right hand from the pistol grip while hold the weapon with the left hand (on the non-existant foregrip) and operating the bolt with your right hand!

I was astounded at the, well, absurdly stupid controls layout of this weapon. Aboslutely no though about the manual of arms whatsoever. In fact, this weapon would work really well for a left handed person, as firing left handed your right hand would be free to operate the bolt handle and magazine release!

The ergonomics of the grip and balance were pretty good and the integral picatinney rail were nice. It also has a threaded muzzle with a portector, and will fit standard AR-15 muzzle attachments, although the shop owner said that nothing would time proerly from what he had tried. Magazines were snug and did not drop free- had to be pulled out by hand althogh they were not jammed by any means.

Regardless of if it fires well, I ould have to give it a big thumbs down, unless you plan on firing it left handed.

[eta] sorry for bad spelling, it is 2am and I am tired.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 12:20:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Real_estate_salesman:

Originally Posted By Dawg180:

Originally Posted By Real_estate_salesman:
Looking at the dissasembled view on KetTecs web site, it appears to be built more like an AK47, the bolt carrier and pist and such.
I'd buy one if it is $300 or less. Any one know what they sell for? What did the rifles go for? (for an idea what this'll be)



Rifles go for around $500, so I would expect the pistol would be in that ballpark too.


BLAH!hr


How? I am building one right now, Stag lower $100, parts kit $50, CAR buffer tube assembly $40, bolt, carrier and charging handle $95. So far I have that in my build so far, $285.
Where can I find an upper assembly for $215?
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 12:58:53 PM EDT
Dawg, click your heels together and tell yourself three times....'this is NOT an AR15'
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 5:43:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RBK:
Dawg, click your heels together and tell yourself three times....'this is NOT an AR15'



LOL, true enough.

It doesn't need to be an AR-15, but I would hope someone put some though into how a person operates the 'pistol' and it definitely did not seem that anyone really though about more than chopping down their SU-16 rifle. IMHO, unless you are left handed the controls are pretty damn useless, YMMV.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:06:58 AM EDT
Maybe they might offer a left hand model so us right handers could use.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:07:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dawg180:
I got to handle one of these in person, and here is my impressions:

I am not impressed at all...

Although the construction of the pistol looks solid, there are a lot of flaws in the design, and I'll go through them on by one.

1. The single point sling you see in the pic- well, the gun I saw doesn't have any way to actually mount it. Mayeb the sling comes with a replacement screw or something.

2. No bolt catch release. Magazines lock the bolt popen when empty, upon loading a new one you have to work the bolt handle to chamber a fresh round.

3. Magazine release poorly done. A small button on the RIGHT side of the pistol which is apparently meatnt to be operated by the right index finger. All fine and dandy, but you need an 8" index finger to actually reach it! The only way to release the magazine is to hold the weapon with the offhand, remove your hand from the pistol grip, and pres the button. Being taht the button is only on the right side, you can't actuate it with your left hand!

4. Basic gun does not come with foregrip- only exposed barrel.

5. The biggie flaw of them all- charging handle is on the right side. Think about #2 for a minute. You physically cannot charge/load the weapon without either A. rotating the weapon 90 degrees to the left 'gangsta style" to operate the charging handle with your left hand or B. remove your right hand from the pistol grip while hold the weapon with the left hand (on the non-existant foregrip) and operating the bolt with your right hand!

I was astounded at the, well, absurdly stupid controls layout of this weapon. Aboslutely no though about the manual of arms whatsoever. In fact, this weapon would work really well for a left handed person, as firing left handed your right hand would be free to operate the bolt handle and magazine release!

The ergonomics of the grip and balance were pretty good and the integral picatinney rail were nice. It also has a threaded muzzle with a portector, and will fit standard AR-15 muzzle attachments, although the shop owner said that nothing would time proerly from what he had tried. Magazines were snug and did not drop free- had to be pulled out by hand althogh they were not jammed by any means.

Regardless of if it fires well, I ould have to give it a big thumbs down, unless you plan on firing it left handed.

[eta] sorry for bad spelling, it is 2am and I am tired.



Gee, sounds like an AK pistol that is chambered in 223 and takse AR15 mags. You have just described some of the major draw backs of the AK47...
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:20:43 PM EDT
Yes, but at least an AK pistol has a foregrip you can hold with your left hand while doing all the loading/charging/safing actions with the right hand...the Keltec doesn't even have that!
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:38:40 AM EDT
Looking at the Kel-Tec Pistol, I think Kel-Tec missed a big user group, and that is this group. If they could build a Pistol Top-End that you could just pin onto an AR lower. with a switchable (ambi) Charging Handle, they could probably sell some of those.

Just thinking out loud.

Chief
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:39:14 AM EDT
Given the interest in piston-uppers now, I think that, yes, any company that mates a piston upper to an AR-15 lower is going to do well. I'd personally like to see the HK 416 produced for us peons, but I'd also think an AR-18 upper altered to mate directly to the AR-15 lower would be a hoot. Why not?
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