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Posted: 9/1/2008 5:22:08 PM EST
I'm poor. So no I cannot afford A larue anything or Knights or MI rails. I am not a ninja delta force frogman assasin either. I am a range and critter slayer.

I understand the utg is airsoft crap.
My question is this has anyone compared KZ 4 Rail Handguards from botach to UTG?
The kZ is at least made in america. Anyone?
Link Posted: 9/1/2008 7:00:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2008 7:01:14 PM EST by new-arguy]
Link Posted: 9/1/2008 9:08:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
Im dying inside.

I've not seen one (that I know of) but at $50 I find it hard to believe it could be any better. You saved enough to buy your AR instead of an SKS. Keep saving and get a decent rail. Troy MRF-DI retails at $150. Im sure you can find it less. If not that, buy a used rail from a good company. Just keep saving, another $70 to $100 will be well worth it.

Hey, don't knock the guy, I went with a UTG, then I ultimatly decided I didn't even like using a VFG and went back to M4 handguards. It's good to mess around with something cheap just to see if you like it first, IMO.

Also, I have never had a problem with UTGs, neither has anyone else who has actually used them, all hate is coming from guys like you who have never actually used them. (no offence, I know you are site staff and all, but hey, it's a free country(?) can't a guy do whatever he wants to his own gun???)
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 7:33:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 7:38:09 AM EST
Buy once, Cry once rule applied here
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 12:04:11 PM EST
fair enough I try the utg if i dont like the rail system idea i'm out 50 bones if i do like it i'll get the troy.
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 1:11:12 PM EST
When you can get a Midwest rail for 100, or Yankee Hill for even less, it makes no sense to buy shit.

The old "I just want to see if I like it, then I will buy a better one" is bullshit, and you know it. You are just trying to make an excuse for buying airsoft shit.

No, I have never owned one of the Chinese piles of shit. I have also never eaten a turd, but I am pretty confident I don't like the taste of shit.
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 1:58:11 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 4:38:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/4/2008 1:25:37 PM EST by Jimmy_Hoffa]

Originally Posted By new-arguy:

Originally Posted By Jimmy_Hoffa:
Hey, don't knock the guy, I went with a UTG, then I ultimatly decided I didn't even like using a VFG and went back to M4 handguards. It's good to mess around with something cheap just to see if you like it first, IMO.

Also, I have never had a problem with UTGs, neither has anyone else who has actually used them, all hate is coming from guys like you who have never actually used them. (no offence, I know you are site staff and all, but hey, it's a free country(?) can't a guy do whatever he wants to his own gun???)


I have never used them but dont mistake that for meaning I have never seen them. I see them quite a bit. In fact, I've probably seen more of them that most. I've seen enough to know I dont want them and to not recommend them. People have brought them in for me to install (or even better, to take them off). I've reason enough to suggest something else.

IMO, it's like saying "Don't smoke Have-A-Tampa cigars, because they suck compared to a $50 Cuban cigar".

I don't know of any failures of the UTG handguard, if I was hearing about malfuctions I'd be singing a different tune. I'm against all the stuff that's being imported and I think we need to do something to bring jobs back here to the US of A, but untill the .gov does something (like how they ruined the importing of AK kits) I'll buy whatever I can afford IF it functions! For a guy like me, if the choice was a $50 UTGNOTHING, or a $250+ LaRue, I wouldn't have anything. I don't think they really are even competeing with high end manufactures like that.
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 7:26:40 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/2/2008 8:14:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/2/2008 8:15:27 PM EST by SoloTwo]
Like I've said before, the people that say the cheap crap products are good or fine are usually the same people who have never bought or used quality products.

Don't try to hard arguy, there are certain people that will never understand.
Link Posted: 9/4/2008 9:26:32 AM EST
I've gone through MI, YHM and UTG. All I can say is it's a fucking handguard nothing more nothing less. I've seen all 3 take a beating and still have no problem holding a vert grip or light. It's a handguard plain and simple, get it if you want the rails and save your money for quality internals and optics/sights. I don't understand why people get so worked up over a handguard on a rifle. Seriously, this is better than that mine is better than yours, come on! Like I said I've used all 3 and have had zero problems with their intended purpose on any of them.
Link Posted: 10/11/2008 7:14:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By NoMoAMMO:
I've gone through MI, YHM and UTG. All I can say is it's a fucking handguard nothing more nothing less. I've seen all 3 take a beating and still have no problem holding a vert grip or light. It's a handguard plain and simple, get it if you want the rails and save your money for quality internals and optics/sights. I don't understand why people get so worked up over a handguard on a rifle. Seriously, this is better than that mine is better than yours, come on! Like I said I've used all 3 and have had zero problems with their intended purpose on any of them.



Well said! I couldn't agree more. I have UTG on 2 of my builds hand have no complaints or problems at all with them.
Link Posted: 10/11/2008 10:59:50 AM EST
I have UTG rails with no complaints.

They are solid, no rattles, and a clean finish. I'm not really sure what else I could expect out of a set of rails. Well maybe weight. They have a little bit of weight to them, but I'm not sure how the other brands compare.

You could test them out, and then sell them if you needed to.

I'd like to see someone do some tests on rails to see what you get for an extra 100 bucks.

Stuff like put a vfg on, and then see how much pressure you could apply to the grip before either the grip broke, or the rail snapped. You could just mount the rails on a piece of wood or pipe so that you wouldn't damage a rifle.
Link Posted: 10/11/2008 11:08:52 AM EST
I have a KZ 4 rail being delivered on Monday. Also got the $99 Super Tac package deal coming too. Along with the Maxpedition Sliver II gun case for $50 (they should still have some ODs in stock and it's on clearance). Ordered Khaki, but had to settle for OD. I'll try to post pics once I get it set up. Yes, I ordered from Botac, again. They shipped all items I ordered, except for 3 Sabre stun guns. Had a 2 week hold up on the order, since they were out of the Super Tac (an apparently couldn't fill the Sabre Stun guns).
Link Posted: 10/11/2008 11:12:50 AM EST
I think that a 4 rail HG on an AR is kinda silly unless you have a bunch of goodies to hang on it. A single rail will fuffice for a VFG and a light. Maybe you should wait a bit to try the Magpul MOE handguard, it will retail around $30 I think. It's your rifle though, and if you want the 4 rail, go for it. I fall into the catagory of thinking that the UTG handguard is the ONE product they make worth the money, IF you're not a hard user.
Link Posted: 11/8/2008 12:17:34 PM EST
Came in late to this party, but thought I'd weigh in, as there is something here that's been bothering me quite a bit for a long time. I recently bought a KZ tri-rail for a Coharie MP5 clone from Botach. I couldn't be happier with it. It fit perfectly, looks great and does exactly what I want it to do: it holds my VFG and TRL-2 in place without issue.
I liked it so much, that I thought I'd buy an AR version for a pistol build I am gathering parts for. It was only when I re-tried "finding the place that had such a killer deal", that I came across how crappy a place Botach alledgedly is.
Here's the score as I see it now - I have a Coharie CA94FS which (according to internet commandos) SHOULD suck, but doesn't, wearing a KZ handguard which (according to internet commandos) SHOULD suck, but doesn't, which I bought from Botach.com which (according to internet commandos) SHOULD have (according to the very same internet commandos) ripped me off, lost my order, or taken too long to ship.
Oh, BTW, this new one is going on a four year old CAR15 built from Model1Sales partskit, which (according to internet commandos) SHOULD have broken 3&9/10ths years ago, but hasn't ever even suffered a single stoppage with well over 10,000 rounds through it (based on number of cases bought in the same four year period)...*AND* now that I think of it, very nearly all of THAT ammo was steel cased WOLF!!!
My point is, while there is often profound wisdom to be found on this and other fine websites, an awful lot of it is prima donna "I drive a Porsche 911, you drive a Ford Escort" snobbery, and should be given about as much credence. Another factor to consider is that big, two column line of sponsors at the top of the page you're reading. Do you earnestly believe a website hosted by all those MFG's, and largely patronized by dealers SELLING the $$$ items made by those very same MFG's is going to tell you a $50 part is as good as their $300 part? Don't believe half the crap you read from the Internet Commandos, no matter who they are, or how many posts they've made, they are either trying to sell something, or belong to that other group, the Porsche snobs. Believe what you read from P.T.Barnum, it's likely much more accurate - “There's a sucker born every minute”.
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 2:53:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/17/2008 2:58:53 PM EST by goodoleboy]
Ive bought both from botach and the UTG is a better rail..Has lockdown allen bolts as opposed to the other..The other is good but the UTG has screws which can be tightened down..

You naysayers who say chinese stuff is crap need to look at EACH INDIVIDUAL product before opening their mouth...Its only way to give a fair evauluation of a product..

I guess its easier to think CHINA BAD,AMERICA GOOD so shopping easier for them..
Link Posted: 11/17/2008 3:50:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By new-arguy:
Dont compare a UTG to the Larue. You cant. But the fact is theres lots of sub $250 options without having to go ghetto cheap (i.e. UTG). It's shit metal with little prep, a silly finish and crude machining. It pushes so hard against the handguard cap that a set screw gas block cant even hold it. People who "get it" understand. Those who dont will find a reason to justify buying whatever they want. If it makes you happy, really, have at it.

Others with a little more brains and sense will find even a used Troy, MI, or even a Yankee Hill rail for just a little more money. UTG is junk and its good news for them that lots of people can be happy with junk. And honestly, if you're happy, Im happy.

But it *is* still junk.



So the UTG can actually push the gas block off of alignment with the gas port. Have you seen this up at the shop. If so Wow

Link Posted: 11/17/2008 3:51:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By new-arguy:
Dont compare a UTG to the Larue. You cant. But the fact is theres lots of sub $250 options without having to go ghetto cheap (i.e. UTG). It's shit metal with little prep, a silly finish and crude machining. It pushes so hard against the handguard cap that a set screw gas block cant even hold it. People who "get it" understand. Those who dont will find a reason to justify buying whatever they want. If it makes you happy, really, have at it.

Others with a little more brains and sense will find even a used Troy, MI, or even a Yankee Hill rail for just a little more money. UTG is junk and its good news for them that lots of people can be happy with junk. And honestly, if you're happy, Im happy.

But it *is* still junk.



So the UTG can actually push the gas block off of alignment with the gas port. Have you seen this up at the shop. If so Wow

Link Posted: 11/17/2008 5:50:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/23/2008 7:16:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By new-arguy:
Originally Posted By Chuck25:
Originally Posted By new-arguy:
Dont compare a UTG to the Larue. You cant. But the fact is theres lots of sub $250 options without having to go ghetto cheap (i.e. UTG). It's shit metal with little prep, a silly finish and crude machining. It pushes so hard against the handguard cap that a set screw gas block cant even hold it. People who "get it" understand. Those who dont will find a reason to justify buying whatever they want. If it makes you happy, really, have at it.

Others with a little more brains and sense will find even a used Troy, MI, or even a Yankee Hill rail for just a little more money. UTG is junk and its good news for them that lots of people can be happy with junk. And honestly, if you're happy, Im happy.

But it *is* still junk.



So the UTG can actually push the gas block off of alignment with the gas port. Have you seen this up at the shop. If so Wow



Yup. I just didnt get it. The guy had the UTG rail already, and he wanted some upgrades. He wanted to get rid of the front sight so he picked a LaRue gas block. I think he had an EoTech as well. I dont recall which type of gun it was but it was a decent brand. Everything on the gun was cool, but he was stock on that UTG. I installed the LaRue gas block for him and commented to him how much pressure that handguard was putting on the gas block. I didnt think it would be an issue though. He came back a few days later saying how the gun started short stroking after a while. Sure enough the gas block shifted.


The gun worked fine with the factory installed gas block and UTG rails. He then takes it to you to upgrade. Then the LaRue gas block just installed shifted? I have never heard of this occuring before with factory installed gas blocks. Guess it is easier to blame a Chinese product then yourself...
Link Posted: 11/23/2008 11:05:40 AM EST
I had a set of UTG on a DPMS i had it worked fine but weighed a ton and there was a lot of tilt and flex. so if you are putting anything on it sight wise i would suggest dropping another $40 bucks and getting a set of Yankee Hill Machine for $ 100. The YHM are a hell of a lot lighter and a lot sturdier.
Link Posted: 11/24/2008 6:44:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 9:15:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By new-arguy:
Originally Posted By hooah:
Originally Posted By new-arguy:
Originally Posted By Chuck25:
Originally Posted By new-arguy:
Dont compare a UTG to the Larue. You cant. But the fact is theres lots of sub $250 options without having to go ghetto cheap (i.e. UTG). It's shit metal with little prep, a silly finish and crude machining. It pushes so hard against the handguard cap that a set screw gas block cant even hold it. People who "get it" understand. Those who dont will find a reason to justify buying whatever they want. If it makes you happy, really, have at it.

Others with a little more brains and sense will find even a used Troy, MI, or even a Yankee Hill rail for just a little more money. UTG is junk and its good news for them that lots of people can be happy with junk. And honestly, if you're happy, Im happy.

But it *is* still junk.



So the UTG can actually push the gas block off of alignment with the gas port. Have you seen this up at the shop. If so Wow



Yup. I just didnt get it. The guy had the UTG rail already, and he wanted some upgrades. He wanted to get rid of the front sight so he picked a LaRue gas block. I think he had an EoTech as well. I dont recall which type of gun it was but it was a decent brand. Everything on the gun was cool, but he was stock on that UTG. I installed the LaRue gas block for him and commented to him how much pressure that handguard was putting on the gas block. I didnt think it would be an issue though. He came back a few days later saying how the gun started short stroking after a while. Sure enough the gas block shifted.


The gun worked fine with the factory installed gas block and UTG rails. He then takes it to you to upgrade. Then the LaRue gas block just installed shifted? I have never heard of this occuring before with factory installed gas blocks. Guess it is easier to blame a Chinese product then yourself...


Regular gas blocks are double pinned in place. He did not want the regular gas block/front sight. He wanted a low profile gas block. Nearly all of which use set screws to secure to the barrel.

I told the guy I could just put the regular front sight back on the gun for him, like I said, he didnt want that. I even proceeded to show him a couple flip up front sight gas blocks like the PRI and ARMS #41b whoich would probably work. He didnt want that either. But I sincerely appreciate your implication. Thanks.

The truth is his choice of the rail was preventing him from doing what he wanted with his gun.


Just curious, how did the gas block slip if the barrel was drilled for the gas block pins? The customer had to put a crazy amount of torque on the handguard. Was the gas tube bent? Were the gas block pins deformed/destroyed? Maybe he ran over it with his truck? :)

Link Posted: 6/15/2009 3:18:07 PM EST
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