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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 8/25/2004 6:29:13 PM EST
I just picked up one of the L.E.O. / MIL only 9mm lowers from a shop for $150. The guy tells me the thing is stamped...

AR-15
9mm carbine
Cal: 9mm
serial #

I figured it was a safe bet to build in pre ban config whether the ban sets or not, but will I run into any problems with the fire control parts? If so where can I get the right lower parts to build it? Can I buy them as a complete set, if so where? I did find out the lower is the small pivot pin. I was thinking of using a Bushmaster lower kit, but the size difference in the pins has me concerned that I wasted moneyon the Colt lower.

Next question is one of re-marking. I know that I can change the caliber stamping if I build it as 5.56, but what of the line that reads"9mm carbine"? Is this the model, which I belive I can not mess with? Or would the AR-15 be the model? I know that the manufacturer, address and serial number are bad JU-JU, but anything else I should know?

Thanks for the help!
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 10:24:19 AM EST
Did I say something wrong?
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 10:30:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By USCGflyer:
I just picked up one of the L.E.O. / MIL only 9mm lowers from a shop for $150. The guy tells me the thing is stamped...

AR-15
9mm carbine
Cal: 9mm
serial #

I figured it was a safe bet to build in pre ban config whether the ban sets or not, but will I run into any problems with the fire control parts? If so where can I get the right lower parts to build it? Can I buy them as a complete set, if so where? I did find out the lower is the small pivot pin. I was thinking of using a Bushmaster lower kit, but the size difference in the pins has me concerned that I wasted moneyon the Colt lower.

Next question is one of re-marking. I know that I can change the caliber stamping if I build it as 5.56, but what of the line that reads"9mm carbine"? Is this the model, which I belive I can not mess with? Or would the AR-15 be the model? I know that the manufacturer, address and serial number are bad JU-JU, but anything else I should know?

Thanks for the help!



You don't want to change any stampings or markings on the receiver. The thing that might be inhibiting posts is that you stated it was stamped LE only. Are you LE?
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 10:46:45 AM EST
Of course he is LE, he wouldn't have posted something like this if he wasn't.... Either that or he wants to be a felon.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:14:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2004 11:16:03 AM EST by ddc]

I figured it was a safe bet to build in pre ban config whether the ban sets or not,


would you like to expand upon that a bit?
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 12:40:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2004 12:42:23 PM EST by USCGflyer]
As I understand the law it can be built into a pre- ban config on an LEO lower if you have the proper credentials(i.e. a federal LE agency). Which is why I felt it was safe bet either way if I bought the marked lower. I have a few ARs and am very much looking foward to September so I can restore my guns the way they should be, without having to get a letter. I'm not trying to stir up crap here. I've been a member of the board for a couple years now, even though I don't post very often, I still read quite bit and understand some of the problems the board has had with some "people" asking certain questions. I'm just unfamiliar with the workings of the Colts in particular as my other rifles are Bushies and DPMS. I have seen other post refering to odd pin sizes and such. As to remarking, I just wanted to stamp the right caliber on the thing as it will no longer be 9mm, I was planning to use a M-4 upper.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 4:17:10 PM EST
Thanks for the vote of confidence Stickman... I try to stay out of trouble as much as possible.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 4:28:56 PM EST
no one wants to touch this one with a ten foot pole......
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 4:32:54 PM EST
Ok, but why?
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 5:21:05 PM EST
Wait till sept 13th then re-post
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 5:25:24 PM EST
Remarking the caliber is no problem. IIRC, all Colt semis have .170 FCG pins. And I'm pretty sure if you have a letter from your supervisor on dept letterhead authorizing it, you can have a post-ban AW.

But I could be wrong...except about the remarking.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 5:45:57 PM EST

Ok, but why?


1. There is a bit of a ongoing debate whether LE, with letter or not, can 'build' an LE Rifle on a LEO stamped lower. Some say it has to leave the manufacturer already built as a Rifle. There is also a question of building on a post-ban receiver that has AR-15 marked on it,.

2. As far as the 9mm markings go, it can be changed, so long as the serial number, mfr, location of mfr are not changed. American Manufacturing can do it for you, but he is having problems with his mother's health and isn't taking on work right now.

3. You stated your LE and are asking questions about building an AR15 on a AR15 Discussion Forum. Some have to put their tinfoil hats on before they give you an answer. If they give you an answer.

As for your question on parts. You can get the Colt parts kit from Brownells.

I would wait until after 9/14 to put together that rifle.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 6:56:37 PM EST
Thank you very much for the info, I wasn't trying to set off any alarms here. I may very well just wait another few weeks and build on it after the sunset, just to keep myself in the clear and save some headaches. The 9mm markings don't concern me all that much, I would just like to have it matching so to speak.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 8:30:57 PM EST


(4) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to--
`(A) the manufacture for, transfer to, or possession by the
United States or a department or agency of the United States or
a State or a department, agency, or political subdivision of a
State, or a transfer to or possession by a law enforcement
officer employed by such an entity for purposes of law
enforcement (whether on or off duty);



If you have the correct credentials, don't worry about it.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:48:55 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 12:15:07 AM EST
My only question is if the lower came with the 9MM block and your going to pull it, can I have it!!!

My next AR build is going to be a Colt Style 9mm, but have been waiting for the ban to sunset so I can get Colt mags with last round bolt hold open followers for less than $100 each.


_____________________
(4) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to--
`(A) the manufacture for[read SOT], transfer to, or possession by the
United States or a department or agency of the United States or
a State or a department, agency, or political subdivision of a
State, or a transfer to or possession by a law enforcement
officer employed by such an entity for purposes of law
enforcement (whether on or off duty);
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 12:32:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 12:45:08 AM EST by USMC03]
USCG Flyer,



The way a purchase of a LEO / Govt carbine works is you have to get a letter on official Department letterhead to puchase the rifle. On the official letterhead it has to state that you are a Law Enforcement Officer and that you are authorized to carry the firearm in performance of your official duties, the gun is not for resale, and that you have not been convicted of a misdemenor crime of domestic violence. The letter has to be signed by a "Supervisor", in most Depts they require either command staff or the Chief. Here is a simple copy of a letter from Specialized Armament Warehouse:

LEO Cover Leter

I have in the last 9 months purchased 3 Colt LEO M4 carbines through SAW, but would not purchase a gun on letterhead prior to this because basically you are purchasing a firearm under the athority of your department and upon leaving your department the Department could legally keep the firearm because once you leave you no longer fall into the catagory of legally owning a LEO firearm (except under certain circumstances, see below).

I was told by an Agent at the technical branch of the BATF that if an officer purchases a L.E. Only AR15 and were to leave the department one of a few things could happen to the rifle. The officer could sell it to another officer, the officer could convert the rifle to make it post ban legal (remove flash hider and perminately install a post ban legal muzzle brake, remove the bayonet lug, and put a non-telescoping or non-collapsable stock on the gun) or the Dept could keep the gun if the other 2 were not an option.

Now there is one loop hole to purchasing a L.E. Only rifle and keep it in post ban configuration (I was able to confirm this through Tina Elmore at SAW and the Agent at the ATF). If the Officer is a sworn full time officer, get's the the letter on offical Department letterhead and adds the phrase "Upon leaving in good standing the Officer shall retain possession of this firearm" in the letter, then the Officer can keep the gun and the gun can remain in it's preban configuration if he leaves in good standing.

That being said, there are a couple of things you have to know about going this route. Letterhead is NOT retroactive, meaning that if you have already purchased the gun and the letter did not have the "Upon leaving in good standing...." phrase in it then you can never go back and change things. If your letter does not have this phrase in it and you leave the Department, you either have to sell the gun to another sworn officer or put it in post ban configuration. If you do leave the department and have the letter that states "Upon leaving in good standing...." you MUST be able to present that letter at anytime as long as the gun is in a preban configuration. If you leave law enforcement and keep the gun in pre ban configuration (because you have a letter that has the "Upon leaving in good standing...." phrase in it) you must keep the Department letterhead with the gun (ie. when you go to the range, go to a shooting match, etc).....so if something happens and you are questioned about the legality of the firearm you can explain that the gun was purchased legally when you were a sworn officer, now you have left the job but were able to keep the gun because of the golden phrase "Upon leaving in good standing the Officer shall retain possession of this firearm".

So even though I'm a Detective and I have 3 L.E. Only guns that I've purchased on Dept letterhead (I had to get a seperate letterhead for each gun), if I go down to my local gunstore and purchased a LE Only lower, it's no differant than if I were buying a post ban lower. Without that Department letterhead I have to keep the LE Only gun in post ban configuration. And when you purchase a gun on Department letterhead your department has to keep a copy of that letter in your personel file (and it's always smart to keep a copy for you own files).

If the ban ends in a few weeks this is all a non issue, but if it doesn't than these rules will still apply. I hope this clears some things up for you.



Semper Fi
Jeff
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:27:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 4:28:03 PM EST by USMC03]
disreguard
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