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Posted: 3/5/2010 5:07:36 PM EDT
I finally got all my parts in for my LR build, I WAS so EXCITED! I vice'd the upper between two 2x4's and tried to take off the barrel nut....no go. Then SNAP, one tooth comes off. Ok, theres two left, it should still work. An hour later, the barrel nut still doesnt come off, and another tooth SNAPS off.

DSA must have torqued this thing to like 100ft/lbs, jesus H!!!
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 5:19:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 5:25:56 PM EDT
I put a lighter to it for a couple of minutes, and sprayed it with break-free, still no go. I really dont want to pay a shop 80$ to do this, that will really perturb me. As it stands now I'm out 30$ for an effin' barrel wrench.
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 5:52:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2010 5:53:33 PM EDT by Gamma762]
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
I put a lighter to it for a couple of minutes



You need a propane torch if you're trying to smoke out loctite.

Link Posted: 3/5/2010 6:06:11 PM EDT
Been there...  I know a barrel nut is not an expensive part.  I ruined a barrel nut with a pipe wrench, but it came off. I had an extra nut at home anyway.  
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 6:17:36 PM EDT
My FF rail came with the new one, but this stock one wont come off
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 6:21:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2010 6:22:13 PM EDT by Mad-Machinist]
you have to exceed 500 degrees to mitigate red loctite........turns it to a brown powder. If you try it with a pipe wrench ...without 500 degrees.....I'd bet you'll wind up doing damage to your upper.
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 6:38:33 PM EDT
Yeah well...time to invest in a butane torch I guess...
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 6:40:20 PM EDT
I know what you mean. Roomate had to help me get mine off of my DSA, and we had no vice! Perseverance is your friend! And I do not recall seeing any loc tite when I got mine off, but then again I wasnt looking for it either,
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 6:48:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By blwallace5:
I know what you mean. Roomate had to help me get mine off of my DSA, and we had no vice! Perseverance is your friend! And I do not recall seeing any loc tite when I got mine off, but then again I wasnt looking for it either,


O Rly? If yours doesnt have any than mine probably doesnt either...I'm going to buy a new barrel wrench tommorow at the local rape store so we'll see how my saturday goes
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 7:01:38 PM EDT
I just got one last week. I broke the barrle nut loose easily. It was well-greased with black grease. Maybe I lucked out?
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 7:25:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
I finally got all my parts in for my LR build, I WAS so EXCITED! I vice'd the upper between two 2x4's and tried to take off the barrel nut....no go. Then SNAP, one tooth comes off. Ok, theres two left, it should still work. An hour later, the barrel nut still doesnt come off, and another tooth SNAPS off.

DSA must have torqued this thing to like 100ft/lbs, jesus H!!!


You'll be back.
Know when to stop
458
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 8:35:26 PM EDT
I bought a cheap heat gun at harbor freight to get
everything off.  Then again it wasn't a DSA upper but
instead a DPMS quad rail on a LR-308c
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 9:46:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
O Rly? If yours doesnt have any than mine probably doesnt either...I'm going to buy a new barrel wrench tommorow at the local rape store so we'll see how my saturday goes


Link Posted: 3/6/2010 1:44:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2010 2:18:36 PM EDT by GearHead_1]
I have two of the Nitrided DSA uppers. Neither of these were Loctited. I took them apart to put a quad rail on and lap the uppers. They were well lubed nuts and neither required a great deal of effort to loosen. I know that this could change at any time during their production run and a phone call would confirm this but I don't believe that DSA uses Loctite on the barrel nut. RockRiver... now that's another story. Of course I have no way to prove this but I would bet good money that having the appropriate tools (the least of which would be an upper receiver clam shell) would make this a relatively simple task.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 2:07:13 PM EDT
Wow! Clamping the upper between 2x4's? Sounds like you'll have more serious problems than a broken wrench.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 2:54:19 PM EDT
Just to be safe, you are turning it counter-clockwise right?  Also, it may help to use impact rather than force.  Give the wrench a good rap with a rubber mallet or 2X4 rather than pushing or pulling.  The same goes for screws...simply spinning them will often bugger up the slot whereas turning them with an initial jerking motion will usually free them better...
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 3:34:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Redbone:
Wow! Clamping the upper between 2x4's? Sounds like you'll have more serious problems than a broken wrench.


Yup. I bent my upper receiver with the clamp, the bolt no longer fits more than halfway into the upper.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I'm ordering a new upper this week, and getting a bigger, screw-down vice...

Link Posted: 3/6/2010 3:37:55 PM EDT
I'd also recommend investing in a action block for the upper. Good luck with the next one.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 5:31:47 PM EDT
I wrapped my DSA upper in about 20 layers of stretch wrap, and then clamped it in my Versa-Vice to unscrew the barrel nut and then install a free-float rail. I've taken the rail on and off 4 times now. Not a mark anywhere. Worked fabulously. They can keep their clamshell devices.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 6:41:12 PM EDT
Don't have any of that.
Think I'll stick with using tools designed for the process.  
Good luck with that
458
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 6:45:35 PM EDT
Well, either mine's special, or something; cause this bitch aint moving.

I just tried for a fourth round this weekend, and still doesnt move. i tried putting the brrel wrench on and then jumping on the upper with my body while it was at an angle, still wont come off. I've broken teeth off of the stock barrel nut. I've doused it in CLP, i've clamped it by the barrel, between two 12" 2x4 piece, and it's on so tight that when you try and unscrew it, the barrel moves IN BETWEEN the two pieces of 2x4 while clamped down....

My GF's dad has a HUGE screw-down vice in his garage, I'm going to buy an armorers block and a new upper. If that doesnt work, so help me god I'm going to go ballistic.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 7:29:44 PM EDT
At this point it sounds like you need real grip and leverage.  Keep in mind that even with perfect torque, a barrel nut can get really well stuck, so a long breaker bar on the wrench is a good idea.  But now, I think you need the next step: a pipe wrench.  It won't hurt to put the upper in the freezer for 30-45 minutes before you go at it, either-aluminum and steel contract at different rates, so the upper should shrink a little bit and make the job easier.  Once you get it PROPERLY secured in a vise and action block, apply the pipe wrench and put a LOT of weight onto it.  It should not take long before the nut comes loose.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 11:01:02 PM EDT
It's probably more difficult than it needs to be because you're not using proper tools.  Get an upper receiver block.
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 12:04:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 7:31:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2010 7:39:21 AM EDT by GearHead_1]
Originally Posted By forker:
I wrapped my DSA upper in about 20 layers of stretch wrap, and then clamped it in my Versa-Vice to unscrew the barrel nut and then install a free-float rail. I've taken the rail on and off 4 times now. Not a mark anywhere. Worked fabulously. They can keep their clamshell devices.


That's sound advice that any new builder can take to the bank.

For any given task there are no doubt many ways to get to the end of the road. Don't let anyone tell you that there isn't a place for the right tool.
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 7:56:31 AM EDT


Is that one better than the ones that actually clamp the upper between the grips? Seems like that one would break with too much force...
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 8:13:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2010 8:26:03 AM EDT by GearHead_1]

This one certainly has it's place and is arguably more versatile than the clam shell. It will work well in all but the toughest of situations. I say this because I did see a friend pop the take down pin extension when really cranking on a receiver while removing a barrel. In fairness the panther claw broke on the top end also, no doubt he pushed it too far. Interestingly enough he borrowed my clamshell and said it worked like a charm. It also works on the not so typical upper receivers that are becoming more reasonably priced and more popular. The clam shell won't work without modification on the billet receivers. If I could buy only one I would probably get the clam shell unless I had billet. Ultimately if you get hooked on AR's you'll want one of each.
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 11:25:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GearHead_1:

This one certainly has it's place and is arguably more versatile than the clam shell. It will work well in all but the toughest of situations. I say this because I did see a friend pop the take down pin extension when really cranking on a receiver while removing a barrel. In fairness the panther claw broke on the top end also, no doubt he pushed it too far. Interestingly enough he borrowed my clamshell and said it worked like a charm. It also works on the not so typical upper receivers that are becoming more reasonably priced and more popular. The clam shell won't work without modification on the billet receivers. If I could buy only one I would probably get the clam shell unless I had billet. Ultimately if you get hooked on AR's you'll want one of each.


For those exceptionally tough nuts, I bought a barrel vise block.  Chuck the barrel into that somewhere near where you're cranking and it ain't going anywhere.  But my last extremely tight barrel nut gave it up to a combination of freezer treatment and pipe wrench on the second tug on the pipe wrench while held by my PantherClaw.  I would think that the nut would have to be extremely bad AND the user would have to have a really poor tool in play to bust both the upper and the PC.
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 11:41:45 AM EDT
This is probably a stupid question, but you did take the gas tube out, right?
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 11:49:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2010 11:49:37 AM EDT by GearHead_1]
Originally Posted By GHPorter:
I would think that the nut would have to be extremely bad AND the user would have to have a really poor tool in play to bust both the upper and the PC.


Pretty sure either the receiver or the panther claw let go (I don't know which went first) and the other piece let go as a  result. Oddly enough the barrel nut teeth were unscathed.

Link Posted: 3/7/2010 11:56:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TerryC:
This is probably a stupid question, but you did take the gas tube out, right?


lol yes

Link Posted: 3/7/2010 4:09:40 PM EDT
Well guys, looks like I'm going to have Spikes do all of the work on this one. If I buy an upper, Spike's offered to install the whole deal for me from GB to HG and even test-fire it in under 4 days. So I'm gonna go with that option and have it done properly.
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 4:57:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Yeah well...time to invest in a butane torch I guess...




And a receiver block.

Seriously. No torch... No receiver block...

WTF?
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 5:59:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 6:00:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 6:58:44 PM EDT
+1 for the DPMS Claw fixture plus the DPMS multi-tool.



I have used mine over and over, more than I ever thought I would when I bought them.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 11:49:40 AM EDT
it's not possible to bend a barrel right? Wondering if i culda messed something up in gorilla mode, but i doubt it?
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 1:14:39 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Mattyvac:


it's not possible to bend a barrel right? Wondering if i culda messed something up in gorilla mode, but i doubt it?





i use a 1/2" 24" breaker and never break teeth or slip.


but i use a brownells clamshell receiver clamp and a vice as well.





i'm thinking the aluminum receiver would bend before the barrel would be damaged.

i have never seen a barrel extension broken from forces generated by a barrel wrench.
 
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 3:57:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheRegulator:
Been there...  I know a barrel nut is not an expensive part.  I ruined a barrel nut with a pipe wrench, but it came off. I had an extra nut at home anyway.  


This is the correct answer.  Barrel nuts are CHEAP
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 3:59:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By Redbone:
Wow! Clamping the upper between 2x4's? Sounds like you'll have more serious problems than a broken wrench.


Yup. I bent my upper receiver with the clamp, the bolt no longer fits more than halfway into the upper.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I'm ordering a new upper this week, and getting a bigger, screw-down vice...



Might wanna buy a proper vice block set while you are at it.

What are you gonna do with your old upper?  Wanna sell it?
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 4:18:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By Redbone:
Wow! Clamping the upper between 2x4's? Sounds like you'll have more serious problems than a broken wrench.


Yup. I bent my upper receiver with the clamp, the bolt no longer fits more than halfway into the upper.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I'm ordering a new upper this week, and getting a bigger, screw-down vice...


You're using a 'C' clamp??
458

Link Posted: 3/8/2010 4:26:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 458winmag:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By Redbone:
Wow! Clamping the upper between 2x4's? Sounds like you'll have more serious problems than a broken wrench.


Yup. I bent my upper receiver with the clamp, the bolt no longer fits more than halfway into the upper.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I'm ordering a new upper this week, and getting a bigger, screw-down vice...


You're using a 'C' clamp??
458



Yes, I WAS using a C-clamp. I know, i learn the hard way.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 3:45:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2010 3:46:15 PM EDT by Mattyvac]
Incase anyone was wondering: (bad pics, i know, 3mp camera!)





And done properly:

Link Posted: 3/9/2010 4:01:00 PM EDT
I just noticed you mentioned the pin broke off of your barrel wrench.  Are you using the right side of the wrench?  Most barrel wrenches have 3 pins on one side and then what looks like a giant bottle cap tool on the other.  You should be using the bottle cap tool looking side on your barrel nut and NOT the 3 pinned side unless you are working with a free float barrel nut.  But yes, a action block is worth it's weight in gold when working with ARs.
Link Posted: 3/9/2010 7:09:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By 458winmag:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By Redbone:
Wow! Clamping the upper between 2x4's? Sounds like you'll have more serious problems than a broken wrench.


Yup. I bent my upper receiver with the clamp, the bolt no longer fits more than halfway into the upper.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I'm ordering a new upper this week, and getting a bigger, screw-down vice...


You're using a 'C' clamp??
458
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.  
Well I least you're honest
458



Yes, I WAS using a C-clamp. I know, i learn the hard way.


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