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Posted: 9/19/2004 2:51:54 PM EST
]I want a gun to train on and just shoot for fun...what should i get, i want a AR or an Ak, what shouold i get and why, if i get an ar i want a bm\m4\a3. thanks....no more that 800 dollars
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 2:53:54 PM EST
Forget it. The military will teach you their way to shoot.

I would love to see some kid in Basic telling his DI/DS 'Oh, I already know all this. I prefer to do it this way.'

Can you say ass-whoopin'?
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 2:58:11 PM EST
Dont worry, they will teach you. But if you must get an AR. What MOS are you going for?
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 3:00:02 PM EST
What should you get? In Shape
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 3:00:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By BH1:
What should you get? In Shape



+1
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 3:02:43 PM EST
I am only 16 right now i am going to boot camp next year as 17 then coming back to finish hight school then active duty...I am going into the Airbone,Rangers,SPF, and then Dealta Force in that order...it is my dream, i have allready done tons of stuff to get ready like wrestle, shoot, football and i take a self-defense class called Krav Maga, which i am the highest ranked kid in the state
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 3:04:42 PM EST
Good luck have fun... run, run, run, and run some more..... Then after that run again...
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 3:17:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 3:18:05 PM EST by inzane123]

Originally Posted By 223raider:
I am only 16 right now i am going to boot camp next year as 17 then coming back to finish hight school then active duty...I am going into the Airbone,Rangers,SPF, and then Dealta Force in that order...it is my dream, i have allready done tons of stuff to get ready like wrestle, shoot, football and i take a self-defense class called Krav Maga, which i am the highest ranked kid in the state



I would watch the football. Noting screws up the dream that you have like a busted knee.

Edit, I would suggest getting an AK. You will learn to shoot an AR in the military, however, it would not hurt to be comfortable with the oppositions weapons as well.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 3:18:07 PM EST
What should you get???

LAID
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 3:26:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By mcgrubbs:
What should you get???

LAID



And then run some more.
George
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 3:31:49 PM EST
On top of the running do ruck marches(once you are in and know what ruck marching is all about) Try not to get injured either, I wanted to go to selection before my next rotation to Iraq but I broke my damn foot and have been OOC for two months now... And seriously... good luck to you, it is a hard go but you can do it if you stay focused...
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 3:36:50 PM EST
Thanks their is no doubt that i am ready for bootcamp...i train all the time and i am swithing schools so i can be in ROTC b4 i go....i know i will make delta,,,,i will also probly end up getting a bm-m4-a3-leo for about 800 their one of my firends
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 3:40:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 3:41:15 PM EST by DM1975]

Originally Posted By 223raider:
Thanks their is no doubt that i am ready for bootcamp...i train all the time and i am swithing schools so i can be in ROTC b4 i go....i know i will make delta,,,,i will also probly end up getting a bm-m4-a3-leo for about 800 their one of my firends



I hope you do make it but I dont think Delta is something you actually apply for, I think they come looking for you, might be wrong though... And boot camp is for the Marines (did that too)...

ETA... Good choice of rifle also...
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 3:45:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 3:47:48 PM EST by boofus]
Get an ACOG so you can use it on whatever weapon you end up with. That way you don't get shipped out to some 3rd world sandpit without good optics. Uncle Sam will give you a rifle anyway, maybe not the glass to go with it.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 3:45:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 3:50:34 PM EST by DM1975]
Just to add the Bushmaster M4 A3 LEO is a 14.5 inch barrel from what I read. You can not own that... Class III... I know Kentucky is a pretty free state but you have to be 21 from what I read to register a SBR... Going into the military I would not advise getting any NFA weapon due to you might go to a post where NFA weapons are not legal... I would get it with a 16 inch barrel... I am sure you already figured this into it but just in case...
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:01:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By 223raider:
I am only 16 right now i am going to boot camp next year as 17 then coming back to finish hight school then active duty...I am going into the Airbone,Rangers,SPF, and then Dealta Force in that order...it is my dream, i have allready done tons of stuff to get ready like wrestle, shoot, football and i take a self-defense class called Krav Maga, which i am the highest ranked kid in the state



Whoa killer, slow down. Lets get through basic, AIT, and Airborne school first.
Then you can think about all the other hispeed routes. After airborne, start looking for a R.I.P. (Ranger Indoctrination Program). You get to got to Ranger Batt while you wait your turn for Ranger School. After that and only after that think about SF selection course. As for the AR. Go for it, just remember that ranges at Basic are ran totally different.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:14:17 PM EST
Woah, hold on everybody. The kid is 16! No offense raider, we all were 16 at one point or another, but the legal age to own a rifle or shotgun in the US is 18. The last thing you want going into the military is a federal crime on your hands. Make sure your mom or dad buys you the rifle and be careful where and when you shoot it. If your family owns a large plot of land, great. Go out, have fun, nobody's going to bother you. If you take it to a shooting range, there's a cop 10 yards down, and he asks for your ID, good luck. Getting busted with an AR in your trunk will give you more problems than it's worth.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:15:47 PM EST
My mom would buy and hold it for me...
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:24:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By DM1975:


I hope you do make it but I dont think Delta is something you actually apply for, I think they come looking for you, might be wrong though...



You are correct.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:33:55 PM EST

Get a 20" A3.

This will give you the normal sight plain you will be dealing with for your rifle qualifications. In other words, stick with the rifle that you will be tested with on the range. Once you are getting an Army paycheck you can get all the other guns you want.

The A3 gives you the option to play with optics, without messing up your learning/training process.

And read the ammo oracle. www.ammo-oracle.com/
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:36:42 PM EST
robert2011 is correct to an extent I think but I always get what I want when buying a rifle... you will get the crap trained out of you in OSUT. Get what you will want for years to come, dont rely on your own rifle for training...
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:38:11 PM EST
That's good to hear amigo. Despite our passion for shooting, nobody here wants you to do anything illegal or get in trouble. I like the idea of getting an AK because the Army has a very specific way of teaching you how to shoot. Whether their methods the most effective or not is debatable, but they get the job done. It's never a bad idea to know how to shoot one of the most common weapons you'll encounter on a battlefield and AK's are generally much cheaper than AR's.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:38:37 PM EST
I'll disagree with many here. You need a goal, and to be driven hard from inside. If you want to get an AR15 to stay familiar with, fine. The comments from others are well thought out with laying off disabling sports, and that you should ruck and run (all after situps and pushups). Lean and mean? Yes. How are you with land nav? What are you rucking with? How are you test scores in school? There is a lot more to joining SF than simply getting good with a gun.

I wish you the best of luck in your future, and I applaud you for starting out right.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:38:38 PM EST
If your REALLY interested in the military, you finish high school first, take a couple months off, then sign your life away. Most people don't like the military life once they join and see what it's about. I wouldn't have made it through my senior year had I have went to Marine Corps boot camp first. (Probably the reason you have to have a waiver to join USMC if your not a graduate.) Don't get me wrong now, I love being a Marine, but I can't say the same for the other 85 out of 100 Marines I work with on a day to day basis. So take one step at a time, see where you REALLY belong, before finding out you don't have a choice in the matter. Once your in any type of special forces, it's the REAL thing, no more playing GI JOE with lil Billy across the street. Not everyone is a killing machine, nor likes the stress of being in another country, behind enemy lines, knowing that the only people who even know your there care about the mission first, your life a distant second. Your team will be the only ones who really care if everyone makes it back alive. It can really mess a guy up. Then again, never let anyone bring you down, if once your there, you still want to be a bad ass and be some Delta Force crazy running through a jungle with a knife and a bootlace in hand, stealin enemy info and killin bad guys...
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:49:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 4:49:58 PM EST by Trumpet]
Couple things,
If you really want to learn how to shoot, just keep practicing with a .22. Basics are basics and you get a lot more trigger time with a .22 than anything else. The army will teach you how to shoot a AR.

As others said, go easy on the football. You don't want to trash a knee before you even get there.
If you're going AB, Ranger etc. Don't worry about Krav Maga, they'll teach your their way there too.

Run.....alot
Get an ALICE, fill it up, put on your boots, and walk....far...and fast.

When doing PT, don't rest too much between excercises. 2 minutes of pushups, then immediately 2 minutes of crunches, then immediately 2 minutes of flutter kicks (no resting between excercises)etc....That's alot more like a real "smoking" than doing casual "sets" at the gym etc.

I suggest you take a look over at SOCNET. There's a huge amount of tacked FAQ there that are identical to yours. Read and learn.

If your mom is signing for it, then make sure she's at the range with you when you go.

If you're planning on doing SF etc., something you can do now is to make sure you bust your ass in school in your language classes. You'll need it.


R
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:50:04 PM EST
I promise to everyone here that i will become Dealta it is my dream,, all i do is think aobut it every second of the day for as long as i can remeber that is all i have ever wanted in my life. I will become Dealta i promise
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:53:34 PM EST
I assume you mean "Delta"?

R
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:06:00 PM EST
Marksmanship isn't nearly as important Teamwork and Leadership skills.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:18:06 PM EST
DM1975...

Good luck on selection when you get the chance... Nice avatar - that was a real SF warrior for those who don't know Frank Miller...

223raider...

Good luck to you! I have run across a good bunch of SF guys. The thing that sets them apart is a fierce determination and a quick mind. Some of those dudes speak 3 or 4 languages and have advanced degrees - study hard!

Spooky
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:32:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 5:33:06 PM EST by DM1975]

Originally Posted By Spooky130:
DM1975...

Good luck on selection when you get the chance... Nice avatar - that was a real SF warrior for those who don't know Frank Miller...

223raider...

Good luck to you! I have run across a good bunch of SF guys. The thing that sets them apart is a fierce determination and a quick mind. Some of those dudes speak 3 or 4 languages and have advanced degrees - study hard!

Spooky



Thanks... That man is my hero, I named my Son after him. I wish I could have met him before he passed... 223raider, if you realy want to be SF then I would suggest reading the book about the man in my avatar. It is called "Reflections of a Warrior" He is a MOH recipient. It will keep you in high gear for SF. On the language side I learned Serbo-Croatian when I was in Bosnia but it is starting to slip away now I am sure they will teach me furthur though... I tried to learn Arabic in Iraq but I just didn't have the time or the patients under the conditions...
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:33:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 5:36:15 PM EST by _DR]

Originally Posted By 223raider:
I promise to everyone here that i will become Dealta it is my dream,, all i do is think aobut it every second of the day for as long as i can remeber that is all i have ever wanted in my life. I will become Dealta i promise




Forget about special guns for now. some marksmanship sure can't hurt but that alone will not help you get where you want to go.

Work hard in school and at home.

If you really want to be successful at any MOS in the Army work on your physical and mental fitness.

Don't even worry about Delta or any other special unit until you first become a competent infantryman, then go from there. Keep your dream in the back of your mind, to yourself, let it drive you to excel at all things.

I know a few who dreamed about being Rangers, SOF, etc, who washed out of basic training. The dream is not enough. You must work hard to excel at everday life first. The weapons are only a very small part of it.

One step at a time.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 5:56:22 PM EST
get a 10/22 and learn proper breath control and trigger pull, follow through, etc. Practice all 4 positions according to the manual. There is no better way of honing marksmanship skills. Practice every chance you can. Learn to pick off empty shotshells at 50 + yds. Basics will help you when you are qualifying at 500yds - which gives everyone the most grief. Get those points up so you wont be awarded a "pizza box". You might want to practice standing slowfire. Another toughy. Good luck Chuck!
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:07:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2004 6:09:48 PM EST by DM1975]

Originally Posted By Powerlock25:
get a 10/22 and learn proper breath control and trigger pull, follow through, etc. Practice all 4 positions according to the manual. There is no better way of honing marksmanship skills. Practice every chance you can. Learn to pick off empty shotshells at 50 + yds. Basics will help you when you are qualifying at 500yds - which gives everyone the most grief. Get those points up so you wont be awarded a "pizza box". You might want to practice standing slowfire. Another toughy. Good luck Chuck!



He aint goin to the Marines... The Army does not shoot the four positions, nor do they shoot to 500M, or a KD course, or standing anything... Just prone supported and prone unsupported on a 300M pop up range... The logic is soud though... Anyway _DR and PhillipKP said it best I think...
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:31:16 PM EST
If you're serious, you should focus on your grades and leadership skills just as hard as you focus on the physical aspects.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 6:37:41 PM EST
As far as PT, do the warm up routine you do for Krav for about a hour. Brutal yes, get you in shape, hell yes. minute pushups, minute situps, minute jump sprawls, minute situps, minute burpies...and dont stop per revolution. I've trained in Krav for 2 years, gotten to train with Amir Peretz and Darren Levine down at the HQ in Los Angeles....it will only do so much for fitness, get used to punching on a bag barefisted, get all your knuckles scarred up so they dont rip up so easy.

BTW, Im down at MEPS/signing next week, planning on Basic in January. 31Bravo - Military Police.

I have a buddy whos life dream was Navy SEALS, I figured he would make it. (Had planned for most of teen/adult life.) got in navy....blew out his knee in Basic....Medically discharged.

What Im trying to say with that is keep your options open. Don't flip out if a door closes to you that you wanted to stay open. Take it and roll with it. Maybe get a couple years at a junior college, I have a few creds (20) at the local JC and Im getting bumped up to E3 before I leave because of it.

John
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 12:52:58 AM EST
Buy a .22 cal rifle iwith a peep sight and practice the basics like sight picture and trigger squeeze. I shot NRA small bore before joining and I shot very well in boot camp as I had the basics down pat.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 3:55:07 AM EST
Learn a language thats in demand and get in shape. Make yourself someone that is a real value add to a covert ops group.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 4:25:53 AM EST
Here's something I wish I'd been told when I was 16:
If you want to do real cool guy stuff with Delta Force/ NASA/ you name it- You're going to have to show people that you can give 110% _No Matter How Much You Don't Like What You're Doing_
You're in what? 10th Grade? How are your grades? Straight As? Probably not, right? Enjoy class? Neither did I.. But..Right now would be a good time to get used to pushing yourself as hard as you can physically and mentally as well and Setting Goals for yourself and Seeing Them Through.

Seriously- The school year just started- make a goal for yourself to get on the Honors list or whatever your school has by the end of the year. Go at it and Don't Quit. Its a lot less fun than Krav Maga or shooting but if you can't do well at things that aren't fun, how are you going to go to Delta Force?
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 5:30:15 AM EST
Get better grades, master a foriegn language, get into the best shape you can and then stay fit. Life is a learning process that will never end. Pay attention, listen, and learn all that you can. Make short and long term goals and stick to it!!!! Dreams don't just happen, you have to make them happen by being presistant, determined, focused and never giving up when you think it is impossible. One step at a time will get you closer.

Good luck with your future.

Link Posted: 9/20/2004 5:42:30 AM EST
Krav Maga, Have you been watching the movie "ENOUGH" with J.LO again????????
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 5:43:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By 223raider:
I am only 16 right now i am going to boot camp next year as 17 then coming back to finish hight school then active duty...I am going into the Airbone,Rangers,SPF, and then Dealta Force in that order...it is my dream, i have allready done tons of stuff to get ready like wrestle, shoot, football and i take a self-defense class called Krav Maga, which i am the highest ranked kid in the state



Link Posted: 9/20/2004 6:51:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By 223raider:
I am only 16 right now i am going to boot camp next year as 17 then coming back to finish hight school then active duty...I am going into the Airbone,Rangers,SPF, and then Dealta Force in that order...it is my dream, i have allready done tons of stuff to get ready like wrestle, shoot, football and i take a self-defense class called Krav Maga, which i am the highest ranked kid in the state






Link Posted: 9/20/2004 7:21:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2004 7:24:06 AM EST by 1-75Ranger]
Many things wrong on this thread, first markmenship is only part of the puzzle. Shooting before you join will help, but you will have alot of time master firing your weapons.

That is fine that your goal is to make it to SFOD-D, but that is a very high goal. Being in great shape is a good thing and being able to shoot is also a good, but these people look for a certain type of trooper.

Most if not all of the High speed guys are very low key, that is one of the traits they look for. In order to try out for SFOD-D you will need a few requirments:

Be atleast an E-6
Be on your 2nd enlistment also
Being Ranger Tab'd may help
and some sort of Special Ops backround will help, either from being assigned with a SF group or a Ranger battalion.

The CAG group have recruiters that will come to post, then you will be able to see if you can make it. I would first set my goals on making it through R.I.P., then life in a Battalion , Then SFAS, then The Q course, Then SERE school , then Lanuage school, then life in a Group. Then it will be time to go through selection for CAG's.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 7:38:41 AM EST
this thread is going to be a classic i can tell. we got another one who has plotted his rise to special ops stardom before he even signs his name to the dotted line.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 8:21:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By DM1975:

Originally Posted By 223raider:
Thanks their is no doubt that i am ready for bootcamp...i train all the time and i am swithing schools so i can be in ROTC b4 i go....i know i will make delta,,,,i will also probly end up getting a bm-m4-a3-leo for about 800 their one of my firends



I hope you do make it but I dont think Delta is something you actually apply for, I think they come looking for you, might be wrong though... And boot camp is for the Marines (did that too)...

ETA... Good choice of rifle also...



Actually, while I was in the Army 96-01 as an MP, every six months after I became an E-4 we would receive a card at our unit saying that Delta Recruiters would be coming to the base to run initial screening phyiscal tests. We always joked because the Army doesn't officially acknowledge their existence but sends out recruiting cards.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 8:38:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2004 8:38:41 AM EST by ThunderStick]
First, you should learn as much arabic as possible. Take classes (berlitz immersion class for a month or two during your next summer vacation) or buy some arab language tapes. This will prove invaluable, and it will make you more important to your superiors--as well as aid your comrades in interrogation or communicating with the natives.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 9:02:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2004 9:31:00 AM EST by MDavid]
I joined the Army at 17 after I finished high school and went the Ranger Regiment route. I loved the experience and had good times with great people. Ranger school was a cold gut check but earning the tab was worth it. Assignment to the Ranger Regiment is the best choice for a first enlistment in line with accomplishing your goals. Your shooting ability is not the thing to work on as it can be developed quickly by listening to the training you'll recieve. You need to focus on pushups, situps and the 2 mile run and pull ups. Humping a rucksack filled to 40 pounds of crap is a good place to start. Your path follows:

0. Get the Ranger option in your contract. There is NO GUARANTEE that you can join a RIP class after airborne unless this is stated in your contract. What MOS are you joining under/for?
1. Basic- Shut your mouth, get in excellent physical shape and do not hang out with snivelers.
2. AIT- Shut your mouth, listen to the NCO's and learn everything you can, perform above standards in EVERYTHING. You should (better) be maxing the PT test by now, focusing on pullups prior to airborne would be prudent.
3. Airborne- Try not to get injured, stay in great shape, don't get distraced by the women, DON'T go "visit" ranger units. You better be maxing the PT test by now and kicking ass in pullups.
4. RIP- No one wants your opinion on ANYTHING. Shut your mouth and kick ass. Volunteer immediatly when ANYONE asks for ANYTHING. These will be your brothers and you MUST be the most helpful, motivated and disciplined you can be. You MUST NOT EVER QUIT AT ANYTHING. Do not snivel, if you're bleeding or hurting focus on making the road marches and staying healthy. These traits are either with you by now or you won't hang.
5. Ranger Bn. Assignment- Same as above. You are a new private and in the company of great warriors/NCO's. People will "pick" on you and push your limits, shut up, absorb everything you can and work toward a Ranger school slot.

Once you get this far you will have a clear picture of what is needed should you want to pursue Delta/SF. You either are the right type of person or you're not. Not one Delta soldier I ever met was molded into a warrior by training alone. The training/gut checks only illuminate those who already have what is needed. Be advised these guys are 1. VERY SMART (gotta be top 5% types). 2. Olympic level atheletes (can you get here) and have 3. Total emotional control in hinky situations (you either respond this way to incredible stress or you don't).

You will notice that at every point no one is looking to be impressed by your skills or knowledge in any way. If you think you should say something, think again and shut up and listen. If you think they are wrong, shut up and listen. If you are confused about what to do.....listen.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 9:05:47 AM EST
What MDavid said.

"Keep your eyes, ears, nose and bowels open and your mouth shut."

Link Posted: 9/20/2004 9:32:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2004 9:39:10 AM EST by 02Overlander]


I hope you do make it but I dont think Delta is something you actually apply for, I think they come looking for you



Don't know for sure about Delta but TF works this way, and TF is made up of Delta among others. They come looking for you not the other way around.
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 9:34:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By DM1975:
Just to add the Bushmaster M4 A3 LEO is a 14.5 inch barrel from what I read. You can not own that... Class III...



Not correct, 14.5" plus Phantom comes to 16.1" (I've got one)
Link Posted: 9/20/2004 9:39:34 AM EST
#1 Life insurance

#2 Budweiser stock

#3 Coca-Cola stock

#4 A good 401K plan

It's never too early to prepare for retirement.
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