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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/28/2006 7:51:41 PM EDT
i am new to AR's and have been an ak guy since i got one a few months back. All i seem to hear about ar's on the dark side is they are accurate but jam allot. I know theyre accurate, but do they jam allot?
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 7:53:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2006 7:54:29 PM EDT by Snaps]
my colts never have through probably about 8K rounds between them, my bushmaster did a few times
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 7:54:30 PM EDT
Its called a "FTF" Failure to Feed".

IF it is built properly and you have good quality mags and use good ammunition, you will have little or 0 problems.

On the other hand, using poor parts, cheap ammo and cheap mags= NO GOOD.
YMMV
JF
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 8:05:13 PM EDT
good ammo makes a world of difference in mine
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 8:13:55 PM EDT
Properly built AR's do not "jam"

Sometimes people run into problems if they use shitty magazines, or have buffer springs that are too powerful, gas ports drilled too small, etc.

The AK can definitely take more abuse, and if you shovel mud into an AR and an AK, the AR will undoubtedly fail first.

However, given the normal maintenance that any person should easily be able to do, the AR is a 100% reliable system.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 8:44:44 PM EDT
If you know how to maintain and lube it,use good mags and ammo it will shoot and shoot and shoot.Go to armalite.com click on tech notes and tech note 62 will explain everything.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 9:04:29 PM EDT
As a rule, they DO NOT JAM. But when they do, then they were either not built (usually home built) properly; or have used faulty ammo; or have not been properly maintained. IMO
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 11:25:18 PM EDT
ahhh ok
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 12:58:41 AM EDT
I spent 6 years in the Army, and saw exactly ONE M16 that wouldn't run.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 3:14:54 AM EDT
No jam problems.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 4:33:17 AM EDT
AR15's will not jam with propper care. They require propper cleaning and lubrication (more often than an AK). My service rifle nor my personal rifle never jammed on me.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 4:39:40 AM EDT
MALFUNCTION, MALFUNCTION, MALFUNCTION!
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 4:51:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:54:32 AM EDT
Only if your playing Tom Petty
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:34:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
However, given the normal maintenance that any person should easily be able to do, the AR is a 100% reliable system.




Originally Posted By eye_spy:
As a rule, they DO NOT JAM.




Originally Posted By clasky:
AR15's will not jam with propper care.



Methinks that people are letting their love of the AR-15 cloud their reasoning. There is no such thing as a mechanical system that is 100% reliable. Way back in 1960, the proponents of the AR-15 were waving around trial results and pointing out that the new rifle was the most reliable small arm ever tested by the US military, and that it was almost ten times more reliable than the M1 Garand. But even then, it still had a failure rate (of about 0.9 stoppages per 1000 rounds fired, if I recall).

In general, a well- built and maintained AR-15 can be expected to provide a MTBF (mean time between failures) of several hundred rounds, maybe even 1000, but all of them do JAM eventually.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:08:21 AM EDT
The only malfunctions I have ever had was with my first AR when I tried to lube it with Remmington Dry Lube and then after about 5K rounds I had the extractor wear to the point it would tear the rim on some soft SA brass.

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 12:39:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 12:48:08 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By BattleRife:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
However, given the normal maintenance that any person should easily be able to do, the AR is a 100% reliable system.




Originally Posted By eye_spy:
As a rule, they DO NOT JAM.




Originally Posted By clasky:
AR15's will not jam with propper care.



Methinks that people are letting their love of the AR-15 cloud their reasoning. There is no such thing as a mechanical system that is 100% reliable. Way back in 1960, the proponents of the AR-15 were waving around trial results and pointing out that the new rifle was the most reliable small arm ever tested by the US military, and that it was almost ten times more reliable than the M1 Garand. But even then, it still had a failure rate (of about 0.9 stoppages per 1000 rounds fired, if I recall).

In general, a well- built and maintained AR-15 can be expected to provide a MTBF (mean time between failures) of several hundred rounds, maybe even 1000, but all of them do JAM eventually.



Hey - I thought it was my job on ar15.com to be anal and technical !!!


You are of course correct - there is no such thing as 100% reliable for a mechanical system, and I certianly overstated that. Thanks for the correction.

I was merely trying to say that with proper maintenance, the AR is not really any more prone to "jamming" or breakage than an AK. I would suggest that a properly built AR (especially a new one that this guy is asking about), with minimal maintenance and decent ammo, should be expected to easily go a thousand(s) rounds between mechanical failure. (That has certainly been my experience with all of my ARs). If I had any reason to believe that any of my AR's might fail every couple of hundred rounds, I would throw them away, and never use the system again.

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 12:46:53 PM EDT
I dont seem to have any problems with decent ammo, good equipment and proper maintenance.

they do run out of ammo all the damn time though - the lead belching brass WHORES!!!!!!
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 12:49:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By BattleRife:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
However, given the normal maintenance that any person should easily be able to do, the AR is a 100% reliable system.




Originally Posted By eye_spy:
As a rule, they DO NOT JAM.




Originally Posted By clasky:
AR15's will not jam with propper care.



Methinks that people are letting their love of the AR-15 cloud their reasoning. There is no such thing as a mechanical system that is 100% reliable. Way back in 1960, the proponents of the AR-15 were waving around trial results and pointing out that the new rifle was the most reliable small arm ever tested by the US military, and that it was almost ten times more reliable than the M1 Garand. But even then, it still had a failure rate (of about 0.9 stoppages per 1000 rounds fired, if I recall).

In general, a well- built and maintained AR-15 can be expected to provide a MTBF (mean time between failures) of several hundred rounds, maybe even 1000, but all of them do JAM eventually.



Hey - I thought it was my job on ar15.com to be anal and technical !!!


You are of course correct - there is no such thing as 100% reliable for a mechanical system, and I certianly overstated that. Thanks for the correction.

I was merely trying to say that with proper maintenance, the AR is not really any more prone to "jamming" or breakage than an AK. I would suggest that a properly built AR (especially a new one that this guy is asking about), with minimal maintenance and decent ammo, should be expected to easily go a thousand rounds between mechanical failure. (That has certainly been my experience with all of my ARs). If I had any reason to believe that any of my AR's might fail every couple of hundred rounds, I would throw them away, and never use the system again.




Yes, all guns eventually malfunction. I have seen too many AKs and Glocks malfunction to believe the "they NEVER jam" tripe. On the other hand, the MTBF on an AR is certainly higher than 1 in 1000. Last time my Bushmaster had any issues, with good mags (always the key ingredient here), was way more than 4K rounds ago, and I hardly ever clean the thing, and I shoot a LOT of Wolf ammo. And I know for a fact that mine is NOT an isolated case. Most of the malfunctions I have seen with ARs have been:

Match guns that are too tight.
Crappy ammo
Crappy magazines.

Get a normal, chrome lined, non-match AR from a reputable manufacturer, run USGI mags with good springs, good ammo, and that it will run a lot of rounds before something wrong happens.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 12:53:38 PM EDT
Mine has not had a failure of any kind yet. Failure to feed, failure to eject, "jamming", anything.

It's only been through a year of recreational shooting though so a lot of these other guys have put more rounds through theirs. I honestly don't know how many I've put through it. A couple hundred per range session I guess and going between twice a month to once every two months...probably 2 thousand, maybe three.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 1:03:22 PM EDT
I have had a few failure to feeds with my two, but I haven't had a single one since I bought some Magpul anti-tilt followers. I don't think it is related to the weapons as often as it is the magazines.

IMHO, the Magpul followers are probably the cheapest and best investment you can make to make an AR-15 / M16 run reliably.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 1:06:29 PM EDT
Got two Bushmasters and neither have jammed once, one has probably about 5,000 rounds through it and the other only has about 250 rounds through it, cause I got it last weekend!
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 1:07:20 PM EDT
No offense to my AK brothers, but whenever I hear someone on the other side say that AR's jam a lot, I pretty much ignore their posts because they obviously dont know what they are talking about.

The only time I have ever had an AR problem was when my Bushmaster gas key worked loose, dont know why it wasnt staked at the factory.

Ive had WAY more jams in my WASR than Ive eer had in an AR15.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 1:15:18 PM EDT
Colt owner for goin on 3 yrs now , no Jam yet ...plenty rounds down range through it also.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:56:00 PM EDT
my rock river tac entry model with USED isreali surplus orlite mags neveer had a problem. I took down the mags and cleaned all the orange dust out and they are perfect. As for the weapon itself we did a jam test straight out of the box. Keep in mind we had just come from Benning training using restamped a1s to a2s that were prolly older than I am lol. (Not that it was a bad thing, got us pretty good at quick jam clearing) But I put three thousand rounds through it the first day and had not a single jam without any cleaning or lubing. One round had a dud primer (used wolf ammo) and at about 3200 rounds the bolt started slowing down its cycle speed but i did a qquick squeeze of Otis lube into the ejection port and it kept running, we ran out of ammo at 4k (lol) and took it down and EVERYTHING was CAKED with enough carbon and shit that would of KBd one of our benning m16s. It was enough that it took me 3 hours to get the solid crud grime off, then anoter 6 to spot clean it.


not one damn jam. I put a thousand rounds through it a weekend. Only issue I had was a guy (Our PG) said it kept misfeeding and the mags were falling out, this was because he was squeezing 31-2 round into each mag. (It worked on his KalTec back home :(
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 8:49:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
No offense to my AK brothers, but whenever I hear someone on the other side say that AR's jam a lot, I pretty much ignore their posts because they obviously dont know what they are talking about.

The only time I have ever had an AR problem was when my Bushmaster gas key worked loose, dont know why it wasnt staked at the factory.

Ive had WAY more jams in my WASR than Ive eer had in an AR15.




Wow my wasr has never jammed, and i have quite a few rounds through it. Mine hes a trunion from 1970 though So basically its understood the ak IS an inferior gun?

yeah i finally learned how to quote someone.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:07:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:

Ive had WAY more jams in my WASR than Ive eer had in an AR15.



Yeah, that one malfunction you had was pretty cool

And on topic, mine have been great. I had some problems with my first one, but it was a kit gun from M&A Parts with an upper and barrel extension that didn't match up and caused problems (M4 cut upper and rifle barrel extension). A little dremeling and it has been great.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:11:32 PM EDT
My ARs have been every bit as reliable as my AK, which is 100%. Granted I do not abuse them, or throw them in the dirt. But that goes for the AK as well.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:38:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:

Ive had WAY more jams in my WASR than Ive eer had in an AR15.



Yeah, that one malfunction you had was pretty cool






I used to think AR15's jammed a lot too...then I got my drivers license.....
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:53:44 PM EDT
I have had a colt for 7 years and have never had a malfucntion. Knock on wood.
I use good mags and ammo and keep it relitivly clean
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